Yes, and Rabat too.
Dovi was very good on the Yamaha and Honda, but he was never battling for championships or taking six wins a season. I doubt his 2017 would have been so strong on a Honda or Yamaha.
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Yes, and Rabat too.
Dovi was very good on the Yamaha and Honda, but he was never battling for championships or taking six wins a season. I doubt his 2017 would have been so strong on a Honda or Yamaha.
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Very good? I'd argue in fact he was rather ordinary. I've said it late last yr and I'll say it again; 2017 was a perfect storm for Dovi, and while no GP rider is a slouch, he won't get that close to a championship again. He enjoyed the underdog status last yr, and this year we have seen him crash out of numerous races, including one he was leading.
While everyone was quick to say "I always rated him" last yr, especially when he was wiping the floor with Lorenzo, they forgot that in the 9 previous seasons he has won one race, and finished 3rd in the championship in 2012. While his current team mate racked up 3 world championships, 2 of those while Dovi was on a (Factory) Honda and Yamaha, and 44 race wins. He was beaten by all his team mates in all but one year on the Repsol, including 2009 where he was also beaten by a satellite Yamaha, and soundly trounced by Stoner on his debut year on the Repsol in 2011.
It depends, I guess, on what you expect. Even on the Repsol Honda, he was against some of the greatest riders of all time in Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa. He couldn't match them, but he was the only guy that could time to time challenge them (although usually not successfully).
He did quite well on the Tech 3, considering it was a satellite bike.
Agree that he's not in the same league as Stoner, Rossi, Pedrosa, Marquez and Lorenzo, but I think he's generally been best of the rest.
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Dovi did do well on the Tech 3 bike RCV, but was there not some dispute between him and Crutchlow because Dovi bought his own upgrades to the brakes on the bike?
If Dovi had not had these upgrades would he have finished above Cal that year, let’s not forget that Cal had a good year too.
All the riders are great in my eyes for even reaching world championships racing status. I hate it when they start calling each other. The press goad them far too much in an effort to create discord between them.
If Dovi had not had these upgrades would he have finished above Cal that year, let’s not forget that Cal had a good year too.
All the riders are great in my eyes for even reaching world championships racing status. I hate it when they start calling each other. The press goad them far too much in an effort to create discord between them.
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Yep, the table was set for Dovi in 17 in ways it may never be again. After the tire change 7 races into the season, Yamaha lost its way and Pedrosa could not ride it and Lorenzo was on a bike that was foreign. It was a perfect storm and to his credit he took the opportunity to have a career year and even parlayed it into life long financial security. With that money comes expectations that he has never had and from early indications he has not handled it well on or off the track.
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I see Dovi having a stronger second part of the season than JL.
Any significant upgrades are bound to go to Dovi and Petrux, as surely Ducati aren’t going to give them to an outgoing rider whilst they have two capable of winning. If Lorenzo had got himself into a position where he was a title challenger then I think they’d have done so, but with the current situation I see him having to deal with what he has.
Dovi isn’t out of it anyway, he was strong last year at the latter part of the season and can be this year.
Any significant upgrades are bound to go to Dovi and Petrux, as surely Ducati aren’t going to give them to an outgoing rider whilst they have two capable of winning. If Lorenzo had got himself into a position where he was a title challenger then I think they’d have done so, but with the current situation I see him having to deal with what he has.
Dovi isn’t out of it anyway, he was strong last year at the latter part of the season and can be this year.
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Dovi joined HRC when Honda was in a deep crisis and even Pedrosa could not fight for the title; he helped a lot developing the bike, but at that point they hired Stoner and his chance with HRC was de facto over even if he managed to drag it on for one more season. On the Yamaha front, he never was in the factory team. So his real potential only came out after years of patient development when the Ducati was finally sorted. Destiny then seemed to repeat itself, because when the bike was ready another top rider was hired by his team, Lorenzo: we know the rest. Certainly Dovi has not been the luckiest rider out there.
I agree, but ultimately Pedrosa outperformed him pretty easily in 2009 and 2010. Casey was also much faster in 2011, and Dovi only just beat Dani in 2011 (even though Dani missed four races or so after the Simoncelli torpedo).
It's true that he did well on the satellite Yamaha.
I am not sure he got equipment equal to Stoner and Pedrosa in 2011 given he insisted his HRC contract be honoured by him being on the full factory team, iirc against HRC’s preference.
I know you don’t underestimate Stoner, but he was immediately faster than Pedrosa within a couple of laps on the 2010 bike in the Valencia post season test, and again iirc Dovi followed Stoner’s lead and adopted his set up in 2011 rather than the other way around, Stoner unlike some others by whom I mean Doohan as well as Rossi never having any problems with his team-mates having access to his data including set-up.
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Aleix thinks so as well. He says with the braking prowess of Marquez , the braking stability of the Duc combined with the acceleration and top speed of the Duc, they would be virtually unbeatable.
“When we pointed out that there was a Honda leading the championship, Espargaro's reply was telling. "But the championship is led by Márquez," he corrected us. "Cal Crutchlow is for me a very, very good rider, and he's very far from Marc. So the question is, what happens if you give the Ducati to number 93?" Would it matter what bike Márquez had? "Not any bike, but with the stability of the Ducati on the brakes, and we know how strong he is on the brakes, and with that engine? 19 in a row?"
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something really interesting IMHO are the words that MM lately has for the Ducatis (the bikes, not the riders) in the Italian interviews. Both after Brno and after Austria, but also in some interviews separated from the races, he has underlined how fast and stable the Ducatis seem in the entrance of the turns as well as the fact that they can bring more speed out of the corners (aka they have more acceleration). He also stated many times that he still considers Dovi his main rival for race wins even tho he's way behind him in the championship standings.
Add to the equation 3 more things that will sure be in Marc's head at some point: he is unhappy with Honda hiring Jorge, Ducati could potentially pay him even more than they are paying Jorge, if he really thinks Dovi is his most dangerous rival what would be better than getting on his same bike to beat him?
In one sentence: yes, I nowadays am more convinced that he may go to Ducati when his current HRC contract will be up.
Add to the equation 3 more things that will sure be in Marc's head at some point: he is unhappy with Honda hiring Jorge, Ducati could potentially pay him even more than they are paying Jorge, if he really thinks Dovi is his most dangerous rival what would be better than getting on his same bike to beat him?
In one sentence: yes, I nowadays am more convinced that he may go to Ducati when his current HRC contract will be up.
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He actually said he was unhappy about Lorenzo's hiring?
It seems contradictory that he would be worried about Lorenzo joining Honda yet consider Dovi a bigger threat than Jorge.
I personally don't think he is worried by any other rider.
He has an acute sense of history and has emulated the Corkscrew incident, the Jerez 2005 last corner pass, and perhaps Motegi 2010, so I can't see him not going for the titles for multiple marques thing at some stage, although he might not assay this till he has 7/9 titles or whatever. Unless KTM advance more rapidly than seems likely, Ducati are the option, and may even be prepared to pay him as has been said. Hell freezes over before he goes to Yamaha, or he and Valentino become friends, I would anticipate.
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Not sure that one rules out the other. Given Lorenzo's resurgent competitiveness he can be expected to take needed points away next year. He's sure to be more of a distraction than Pedrosa who's been practically a non-entity the last two seasons. If Ducati continues to improve no reason to think Dovi won't make the most of available innovations and refinements. Not saying MM is "afraid" but certainly could be concerned from a tactical point of view.
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Guy's you are making it sound as if the RCV213 development has come to a stand still. What if the 2019 release is a match & more for the Ducati? We have already seen the acceleration gap is pretty much gone. The slipstream at the ring shows that. HRC is by far quicker than any of the other MFG on bringing changes/refinement/upgrades. Not saying Marc would not want to try another brand as time goes on. But what if the 2019 RCV is the halo bike like the original RCV?
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We're not so much in a what if dialog. No doubt every maker will strive to improve, it's a given. Honda is known for frequently making changes over the winter that are more interesting to the techs than useful to the riders, Ducati tho, has been going from strength to strength since Gigi came on deck.
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he did not, but IMHO is rather easy to assume that he indeed isn't too happy.
Lorenzo is an extremely tough rider, as of today he is also the only one that was able to win a title in the Marquez era, but more importantly HRC hiring Lorenzo is the ultimate proof that Honda is NOT Marquez-centric, as many people have believed. He also gets a lot of media attention (especially if compared to Pedrosa) which will surely change some dinamics in how the HRC sponsors will handle (and pay) their riders.
Don't get me wrong I am beyond thrilled for the MM/JL HRC roster but like I said, I doubt MM is as well
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Honda will do everything to keep him from staying
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he did not, but IMHO is rather easy to assume that he indeed isn't too happy.
Lorenzo is an extremely tough rider, as of today he is also the only one that was able to win a title in the Marquez era, but more importantly HRC hiring Lorenzo is the ultimate proof that Honda is NOT Marquez-centric, as many people have believed. He also gets a lot of media attention (especially if compared to Pedrosa) which will surely change some dinamics in how the HRC sponsors will handle (and pay) their riders.
Don't get me wrong I am beyond thrilled for the MM/JL HRC roster but like I said, I doubt MM is as well
I could be wrong but for some reason I thought Pedrosa and Marc ran slightly different versions of the bike from one another. I’m not sure if those differences run deeper than side fairings and fuel tanks but maybe Honda see value in Lorenzo helping to guide the development direction of future iterations of the RCV, making them less Marcentric?
