Martin Cardenas.......

Before people go blaming a braking malfunction:

Regarding Carden-... bike:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>'AMA officials examined the bike after it came in on the crash truck and found that the front brake system was functional, with the lever intact and all brake pads in place; the brakes operated as they should when the lever was pulled'. Cyclenews.com

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Please, as if 'video' would convince people like Tom

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I'm not gonna go looking for a video buddy, its not like you and Tom would change your minds anyway.

You suggest that members like Phleg and myself would not change our minds if we saw a video depsite both of us asking to see and learn as much as we could before we make a judgement..................

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Apr 28 2008, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can anyone link me to the video before I pass judgment on this?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 28 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A video would be even better, if you know where to get one that'd be great.

Yet your approach is much more similar to the one you are critical of.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 29 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Even if reports come out and blame the bike, it will be nothing more than a way to save face and burry the fact that this guy is at fault (they will protect him with lies). I won't believe them,

NICE

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 29 2008, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>myself would not change our minds if we saw a video depsite both of us asking to see and learn as much as we could before we make a judgement..................
Tom if you saw a lunar landing, you'd still dispute it. Fantasyland.

I just watched the tape again.
There was onboard footage and audio that where you could hear him backshifting.
The throttle was not stuck on as you could hear the revs come down.
The rear tire was smoking because HIS REAR BRAKE WAS FULLY LOCKED UP BECAUSE HE WAS GOING TOO FAST.
HE'S A DANGEROUS ........

OOPS. Double Posted

Oh well he's still a Donkey Raping .... Eater

Reading the rabid Cardenas bashing and not having seen much of him previously I too would like to see a video of the incident in order to decide for myself. If that puts me in the same boat as the other people mentioned, well so be it but I am a person who judges from personal experience not because someone else says.

So, after a search of Youtube is the incident in question either of the links below?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiNj8Ynh77Y


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5MNfoJrPec



Garry

The second video is the incident in question. The AMA examined his bike after the crash and determined that both brakes were fully operational, and concluded that it was the operator who was a f%cking brainless tosser.

^this was not actually quoted from the AMA press release, but the rantings of an angry fan who is fed up with the AMA allowing no talent, ambitious racers who make the race more unsafe than it already is. As if the littany of back markers who are usually lapped before half race distance do not make things unsafe enough already. At least the back markers are curteous enough to clear out when the leaders come by. Rant completed.

Thanks Gaz for bothering to find and post that link.
Having watched it I can only assume either the throttle was stuck or he badly miscalculated that move and if he has done that before then maybe someone should think hard before letting him out on the racetrack again.

That looked pretty rough. He took to the dirt on the inside way before the turn, almost as if hes trying to avoid a collision with another rider, but its hard to see.

One of these days Cardenas do us all a favor and make the big-highside to the trackday in the sky.

Not even Ulrich can keep him in the AMA then.

It's a shame, he's actually one of the more talented riders, but his complete disregard for physics means he has turned himself into a 2-wheeled terrorist.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 7 2008, 05:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One of these days Cardenas do us all a favor and make the big-highside to the trackday in the sky.

What a horrible thing to say. Obviously its sad that Tommy had to be involved in this accident, but what kind of race fan wishes death on a competitor because they had a crash.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 7 2008, 04:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One of these days Cardenas do us all a favor and make the big-highside to the trackday in the sky.

Not even Ulrich can keep him in the AMA then.


If you genuinely mean that, then I feel incredibly sorry for you and question whether you are indeed a race fan or someone who just wants carnage. To wish that he be removed from the AMA (or the sport as a whole) is one thing, to wish death for the competitor is uncalled for and only reflects poorly on yourself. I do hope that you just used a poor choice of words.

As for the incident I am also one who feels that it was a monumental stuff up on Cardenas' behalf and without having seen previous incidents (was the first video Cardenas as well?) am reticent to say that there is a pattern.

Assuming as per reports that no mechanical flaw could be found, I have to agree with the comments that Cardenas displayed a major flaw in his 'racecraft'. Whether that flaw is technique, judgement or some other kind I am unable to judge without knowing more from unbiased sources and/or watching video.

But, I still come back to the incident and can clearly see that he obviously could see that he had made an error and was therefore into the corner to hot. He attempted evasive action (which is a good thing) but on that circuit and that corner with that kind of entry speed, the evasive action was fraught with danger as it proved as his body collects Hayden.

I agree wholeheartedly that the incident does look like a sticking throttle but a rider would (or should) just grab the clutch although we all do weird things in a panic.

Does the move (or should that be attempted move) deserve a sanction?

IMO definitely as that was reckless and negligent but above all else was dangerous to competitors and officials alike. But, I do not think he should be banned for life and will state now, that I have seen far worse (both in person and on tv).

But, if he did not hit anyone (as his bike does not appear to) would the calls be out there in such vitriolic ways and woudl there be cals for a penalty?

One very concerning aspect for me (and I have no medical training) was the manner in which Hayden (it was Hayden?) was placed on the stretcher given the level of injuries that have been reported. Was this abnormal for the AMA or was this normal type of Medical behaviour?








Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ May 7 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But, if he did not hit anyone (as his bike does not appear to) would the calls be out there in such vitriolic ways and woudl there be cals for a penalty?

Well did you see the way some people spoke about him when he successfully passed a Hayden? It's hardly surprising they react like this when he messes up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 7 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well did you see the way some people spoke about him when he successfully passed a Hayden? It's hardly surprising they react like this when he messes up.

Nope, I have come into it late so missed all that rubbish (and I call it rubbish using some barbs thrown as a guide).

I hold the impressions that to many with US connections, the Hayden family are treated as some kind of 'racing royalty', even moreso that the Bostroms ever were (that I recall).

That all said, and in total honesty, the most 'grabbing' factor from that video (for me) is the handling of Hayden by the medics. In my experience leg, pelvis and hip injuries are recognised relatively easily in terms of rider discomfort, yet in this video (if it is Hayden) he just gets up and onto the stretcher.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ May 7 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you genuinely mean that, then I feel incredibly sorry for you and question whether you are indeed a race fan or someone who just wants carnage. To wish that he be removed from the AMA (or the sport as a whole) is one thing, to wish death for the competitor is uncalled for and only reflects poorly on yourself. I do hope that you just used a poor choice of words.


+1...

lex you need a kick in the teeth for posting something like that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ May 7 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you genuinely mean that, then I feel incredibly sorry for you and question whether you are indeed a race fan or someone who just wants carnage. To wish that he be removed from the AMA (or the sport as a whole) is one thing, to wish death for the competitor is uncalled for and only reflects poorly on yourself. I do hope that you just used a poor choice of words.

+2

That's a ....... disgusting thing to post Mylexicon.

You lot have a morbid obsession with death. Like it's some kind of unspeakable horror.

Cardenas is a loaded gun that continually wounds people but thus far has not caused a fatality. Whether he is removed by the AMA or by "fate" is unimportant to me. The AMA has already made it clear they will do nothing, so I can only rely on fate.

He's a creature of the Americas and is governed by our sensibility (or lack thereof).

How else should I treat someone who needlessly endangers and injures others for his own benefit? Any humanitarian courtesy he is owed, was exhausted long ago.

Your European sentiments are wildly misplaced. Besides, suggesting he should die quickly and painlessly while engaged in the sport he loves was quite philanthropic. He deserves much worse.

http://alex.hotblogs.eu/files/2007/06/....-happens.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 7 2008, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You lot have a morbid obsession with death. Like it's some kind of unspeakable horror.

Cardenas is a loaded gun that continually wounds people but thus far has not caused a fatality. Whether he is removed by the AMA or by "fate" is unimportant to me. The AMA has already made it clear they will do nothing, so I can only rely on fate.

He's a creature of the Americas and is governed by our sensibility (or lack thereof).

How else should I treat someone who needlessly endangers and injures others for his own benefit? Any humanitarian courtesy he is owed, was exhausted long ago.

Your European sentiments are wildly misplaced. Besides, suggesting he should die quickly and painlessly while engaged in the sport he loves was quite philanthropic. He deserves much worse.

If the AMA have demmed this situation a racing incident and indicated that Martin will not be punished then your issue should not be with the rider, but with the AMA. You obviously feel that the riding standards should be improved, but Martins riding is evidently appropriate for the sport and series he opperates in. Perhaps you are just pissed because you feel the AMA are running the series in a way that differs from your perception of ideal, ot because you don't like the way bike racing is going as a sport. There is little other reason to show such disrespect and ill feeling towards a competitor.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 7 2008, 06:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You lot have a morbid obsession with death. Like it's some kind of unspeakable horror.

Cardenas is a loaded gun that continually wounds people but thus far has not caused a fatality. Whether he is removed by the AMA or by "fate" is unimportant to me. The AMA has already made it clear they will do nothing, so I can only rely on fate.

He's a creature of the Americas and is governed by our sensibility (or lack thereof).

How else should I treat someone who needlessly endangers and injures others for his own benefit? Any humanitarian courtesy he is owed, was exhausted long ago.

Your European sentiments are wildly misplaced. Besides, suggesting he should die quickly and painlessly while engaged in the sport he loves was quite philanthropic. He deserves much worse.


what a load of bs

i hope karma looks after you