Le Mans - FP & QP

Oh look Stoner waving at yet another rider......is there anyone he hasn't abused yet? He is definitely in the wrong sport, time-trial Casey, Time-trial.....



Hondas are absolutely unbelievable here this year. Far superior corner exit speed aided massively by that quick shift box. Jorge and others are riding well beyond themselves just to get withing a second of the quicker laps! Yamaha's are slower this year than last, Jorge and Rossi would have been on the front row yesterday with last years times, Stoner only topped them by .3. Jorge is .3 slower than last year??? Is BS now even supplying old rubber stocks? It was a bit cooler though.



Although longer run analysis tells a better story for the race......1.34s seems to be the pace for the race, with Stoner, Sic, Pedders, Jorge and even Rossi able to consistently reel off these at present.



Cal did well, however his consistent pace is out of contention.



Whats even more surprising is the Ducati and the reports that the chassis changes made at Estoril have not solved the front end issues, Rossi still having under-steer issues now combined with rear problems? And it is still not responding to set-up changes predictably? Nicky is .8 slower than last year! And Rossi was quicker in 2009 than he was yesterday in identical climatic condition's.



Seems the BS's have a similar very fine sweet spot as the Ducati, with big problems in getting up to temp. Reports are that Elias's main issues are with the tyres, he just can't get the BS's to work, he is also not alone. Not to mention that Stoner wouldn't have even gotten on the Front row in 2008 (3 years ago!!) with his time yesterday, in identical climatic conditions, the last time they used proper rubber. I'm hoping that some serious noise is being made about these spec tyres, You would think after losing F1 to Pirelli that BS may be working harder in Motogp.....At least Pirelli gives F1 an intermediate wet option! Some are saying that Pirelli's involvement with F1 is the best thing that's happened to the sport in recent years.......not surprising. I still feel that Motogp main problem is that it needs tyre competition and continued development once again to improve the spectacle.

Mental Anarchist said:

Seeing as though you don't think Stoner, ex world champion and most race wins in the 800 era, has no right to wave a fist at a rider that 1) jeopardise him doing his job, and 2) puts his life or physical health at risk, then can you explain to me and probably Stoner what his next action should be to fix this problem which clearly exists?

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Simple fix.......Casey should go and race at the IOM TT no problems there for him.......

Talpa said:

Oh look Stoner waving at yet another rider......is there anyone he hasn't abused yet? He is definitely in the wrong sport, time-trial Casey, Time-trial.....

Hondas are absolutely unbelievable here this year. Far superior corner exit speed aided massively by that quick shift box. Jorge and others are riding well beyond themselves just to get withing a second of the quicker laps! Yamaha's are slower this year than last, Jorge and Rossi would have been on the front row yesterday with last years times, Stoner only topped them by .3. Jorge is .3 slower than last year??? Is BS now even supplying old rubber stocks? It was a bit cooler though.



Although longer run analysis tells a better story for the race......1.34s seems to be the pace for the race, with Stoner, Sic, Pedders, Jorge and even Rossi able to consistently reel off these at present.



Cal did well, however his consistent pace is out of contention.



Whats even more surprising is the Ducati and the reports that the chassis changes made at Estoril have not solved the front end issues, Rossi still having under-steer issues now combined with rear problems? And it is still not responding to set-up changes predictably? Nicky is .8 slower than last year! And Rossi was quicker in 2009 than he was yesterday in identical climatic condition's.



Seems the BS's have a similar very fine sweet spot as the Ducati, with big problems in getting up to temp. Reports are that Elias's main issues are with the tyres, he just can't get the BS's to work, he is also not alone. Not to mention that Stoner wouldn't have even gotten on the Front row in 2008 (3 years ago!!) with his time yesterday, in identical climatic conditions, the last time they used proper rubber. I'm hoping that some serious noise is being made about these spec tyres, You would think after losing F1 to Pirelli that BS may be working harder in Motogp.....At least Pirelli gives F1 an intermediate wet option! Some are saying that Pirelli's involvement with F1 is the best thing that's happened to the sport in recent years.......not surprising. I still feel that Motogp main problem is that it needs tyre competition and continued development once again to improve the spectacle.

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Just because their times are prefixed with a 1.34 does not mean they are in the same class at all as a 1.34.1 which is about Stoners average is a bloody long way in front of a 1.34.5 which is where most of the others are or a 1.34.9 where your mate is. If it was only times that mattered then your mate would be a good 20sec behind when the checkered flag drops. I think you would be better of comparing him against the other mid packers than the front guys.



It is interesting that despite preseason testing, 3 and half race weekends, an official test and an extra test Rossi, the greatest developer of all time is still a second down on the front guys, slower than previous years and all of his Ducati team mates are still languishing at the back of the grid. How does that reconcile?



Maybe here is the answer, it is the tyres. Elias has always had special tyres and in 2009 it was known that he could not ride with out them so these 'reports' are as old as Rossi's last WC. When you refer to improving the spectacle do you mean that returning to tyre competition will allow Rossi to once again have his special tyres developed for him so he does not have to compete on a level playing field and therefore will be back at the front which for you IS the spectacle? Well for many others their is a spectacle going on right now. It is called the new young talent that are competing at the front every weekend, sharing victories and racing for championships. The spectacle continues off the track where they are cutting your boy down with "ambition outweighed talent" and "getting beaten by children" smack downs. The spectacle is good at the moment, the problem is for you that your boys is not in it except for all the wrong reasons.

Talpa said:

Simple fix.......Casey should go and race at the IOM TT no problems there for him.......

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No perhaps the slow guys should go and race in a class that they can compete in and the ones that want to bash fairings can go jump in an old beat up car and play smash em up derby at the local fair. This is professional racing at the pinnacle of the sport and if you are not good enough to be there then you shouldn't be there or at least get out of the way of those that are and are competing for poles, wins and championships.

Mental Anarchist said:

No perhaps the slow guys should go and race in a class that they can compete in and the ones that want to bash fairings can go jump in an old beat up car and play smash em up derby at the local fair. This is professional racing at the pinnacle of the sport and if you are not good enough to be there then you shouldn't be there or at least get out of the way of those that are and are competing for poles, wins and championships.

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So your saying that Hiroshi, Caparossi, Barbera, Spies, Cruthlow, Dovi, Edwards, De Puniet, Hayden, Bautista shouldn't be there then?





Great logic........



And how much time do these 9 plus the others spend getting out of the way of the almighty Stoner? Maybe they should just give Casey his own track time every weekend instead?

Talpa said:

And how much time do these 9 plus the others spend getting out of the way of the almighty Stoner? Maybe they should just give Casey his own track time every weekend instead?

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Not to pile on, but Stoner also complained that at the Estoril start, Pedrosa moved in front of him, when it was more a case of Stoner moving across into Pedrosa.



The phrase "unreliable narrator" comes to mind.

Beef Supreme said:

Not to pile on, but Stoner also complained that at the Estoril start, Pedrosa moved in front of him, when it was more a case of Stoner moving across into Pedrosa.



The phrase "unreliable narrator" comes to mind.

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One person's 'complain' is anothers 'response to a question of please describe what happened at the start'.



Stoner did not (in any interviews I have seen) say words that I would consider as 'complaining' about Dani's start and the actions as what I saw and read was him explaining the start and what happened. If now a rider saying that 'that guy moved over' is taken as complaining thence I trust that we will see hundreds of threads each titled similar but basically saying '<insert riders name> is a whinging wayne kerr'.



Stoner is (IMO here and can see Talpas response coming) one of the genuine 'call it as he sees it' riders and does not play political correctness in terms of what to say and when (although he has improved). He will not sugar coat something if he is asked or has an opinion and I for one actually appreciate and enjoy that candidness as personally I do not see it as to distinctly different to Colin Edwards who does not hide his personality either.



I look forward to these future threads.















Gaz

Talpa said:

So your saying that Hiroshi, Caparossi, Barbera, Spies, Cruthlow, Dovi, Edwards, De Puniet, Hayden, Bautista shouldn't be there then?





Great logic........



And how much time do these 9 plus the others spend getting out of the way of the almighty Stoner? Maybe they should just give Casey his own track time every weekend instead?

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Caparossi definitely should not be there, Edwards day is run, Barbara has done nothing on his own and really has only used a tow to get any limelight. The others are no problem for me. Most of the guys you mentioned show respect to other riders. Everyone can make a mistake but serial offenders are a danger.



It is not about getting out of the way of Stoner it is about being respectful to all the riders. Stoner is not the only one who has expressed an opinion or waved his arms regarding the issue. Although you would not notice that as you are obsessed with making Stoner the villain and everyone else has permission to do what Stoner does without being rebuked by you and your other fanatical mates.

on track Stoner is starting to remind me of footballers that get tackled then they jump up and gesture at the ref for a yellow/red card to be shown.



NO NEED FOR IT.

Gaz said:

Stoner did not (in any interviews I have seen) say words that I would consider as 'complaining' about Dani's start

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"We had a pretty good start to the race, but Dani moved across and I had to back off..."



Note I didn't say he "moaned" or "whinged" etc. He just complained.



And he was wrong to do so.

Beef Supreme said:

"We had a pretty good start to the race, but Dani moved across and I had to back off..."



Note I didn't say he "moaned" or "whinged" etc. He just complained.



And he was wrong to do so.

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One person's 'complain' is anothers 'response to a question of please describe what happened at the start'.



And why was he wrong to say anything?



Seriously, now we are being told that riders should not explain what happened during a race?



He is describing the start to the race, he was asked a question, should he have said the lights went out, i twisted the throttle, changed gears a few times, turned left, twisted the throttle some more, said goodbye to Simo as he played jumbo jets, turned again, changed gears again, hit the brake, turned the throttle, saw Simo over there so waved, oh ...., I can't do that i could lose control so will probably be called up to see Geeves the Butler later and well, kept doing that for a bit until somebody waved a tablecloth at me.





Now, let me ask you.



Do you wake up on a cloudy day when you wanted to go for a ride and say, ...., bloody clouds?













Gaz

Beef Supreme said:

Walter, this is not a First Amendment thing.

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For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

Pigeon said:

steady your having a panic attack

ok

i'll give you and for fellow aussies credit

Casey did learn something down under about bike racing

kANGAROO SKIN IS HANDY ?

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I don't think all posters on this forum necessarily get self-deprecating humour.



I think they mostly make the leathers from kangaroo skin. Hard on the kangaroos.

Beef Supreme said:

Looked to me like Aoyama was doing his own fast lap, which of course was slower than Stoner's. Stoner is more than second faster than most of the riders, but if the guy can't control his temper when he's got that much of an advantage heading into the race, he's a little hopeless in that department.

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He is a second faster over a lap, not over a few metres.

Tom said:

Why does it matter if Stoner gets frustrated about slow riders in his way. It doesnt seem to harm his concentration/lap speeds too much, its not like he's broken his leg trying to get away from them. And the riders being waved at will either thing yes fair enough that was my mistake, or if they were on a fast lap wont be too fussed at the end of the day. It doesn't harm anyone and it isn't like he goes under people and rides dangerously for some kind of revenge like the moto2 riders or Biaggi/Melandri.



Honda are looking good for tomorrow, i'll be surprised if Stoner doesn't win. Fuel might be an issue and that could help Lorenzo move up a couple, but i think the podium is the best he can hope for tomorrow. Cal did brilliantly, i can't wait to see him on a track he knows.

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Cal is brilliant.

Pigeon said:

on track Stoner is starting to remind me of footballers that get tackled then they jump up and gesture at the ref for a yellow/red card to be shown.



NO NEED FOR IT.

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ok YOU can now stop moaning over it now you pansy..... i hate this rider, i hate that rider.. hahahaha. look in the mirror you ...

Beef Supreme said:

Walter, this is not a First Amendment thing.



He's still blaming Simoncelli for having lost touch with the front two at Estoril, even though he kept losing time after the first lap. Outside of Stoner's fan base, this kind of thing doesn't go over well.

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I think he had every right to be annoyed with aoyama, particularly if he had done a similar thing earlier, and as others have said earlier he doesn't have such an advantage as to have that kind of closing speed over a few metres, and if you think such things are trivial have a look at the incident that ended bubba schobert's career, and pretty well ended kevin magee's.



It is hard to know whether simoncell contributed to stoner's near lose in the first corner in estoril, even watching mutiple replays; they certainly didn't touch. You are correct about the effect on his race, he may have finished closer but 3rd was I think his best result at that race, and I don't see any need for him to have brought this up. I would still be pissed off if I were him that he still has the necessity of playing catch up with pedrosa and lorenzo, but that is due to a different italian.



(EDIT While he did have a pop at simoncelli in the estoril post race interview, if you watched the le mans post qualifying interview he only said that he slowed early in the estoril race having been put off by his and marco's near loses on cold tyres. Saying he may have been able to compete for the win if he had not had early problems is exactly what jorge lorenzo said after the qatar race; I don't see the point of either of them saying such a thing, but riders often do and the sport seems to involve such self-justification for many of the top riders).

Talpa said:

Oh look Stoner waving at yet another rider......is there anyone he hasn't abused yet? He is definitely in the wrong sport, time-trial Casey, Time-trial.....

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What a surprise to find you posting about this. Aoyama going this slow at that time in that position was dangerous, and not just to stoner's lap time.



Stoner's advantage is not marked only if the soft tyres can go full race distance, which may be the case.

michaelm said:

I think he had every right to be annoyed with aoyama, particularly if he had done a similar thing earlier, and as others have said earlier he doesn't have such an advantage as to have that kind of closing speed over a few metres, and if you think such things are trivial have a look at the incident that ended bubba schobert's career, and pretty well ended kevin magee's.

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Thanks Michael



This is exactly the sort of accident that can happen when riders slow down (or stop in this case) on the racing line and

perfectly illustrates why this sort of scenario needs to be taken seriously by those in charge of rider safety.



See the incident here.....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znFu6GxZz7I



Laguna Seca seemed to be jinxed for Australians there for a period of time and this just one of a series of accidents that occurred around that time.



Personally I am appalled at the statements recently made by Paul Butler.



MotoGP should never be considered a contact sport and anyone that thinks it is needs to be reminded of the serious consequences and repercussions that can occur even when riders arent "bashing fairings". Think Kato, Rainey, Doohan etc etc.



It is already dangerous enough and the head of safety should NOT be encouraging "contact".....especially considering the extreme corner speeds and lean angles we are seeing in the 800cc class. So for a rider to remonstrate when he deems an incident to be putting himself or others at risk then I have no problem with him making an issue of it.



I like close racing as much as anyone but I much prefer a rider to make a clean, skillful pass than attempt to barge their way past and punt a rider off the track in the process - I believe this is the issue certain riders are trying to highlight at the safety commission as we speak.

Wake up gentlemen, and start your bier engines



More than 5 hours remaining untill 125's race. No race thread yet?

Mr Squiggle said:

Thanks Michael



This is exactly the sort of accident that can happen when riders slow down (or stop in this case) on the racing line and

perfectly illustrates why this sort of scenario needs to be taken seriously by those in charge of rider safety.



See the incident here.....

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Not a good video that one, I did not like the incident when it happened, and I do not like it now as there were failings in a number of areas and given the end results of that incident in the effects on Shobert and Magee. Sad and tragic and something I hope never to see again at any level of the sport again (although I have seen similar at club level - both riders however in that case were ok)

Mr Squiggle said:

Laguna Seca seemed to be jinxed for Australians there for a period of time and this just one of a series of accidents that occurred around that time.



Personally I am appalled at the statements recently made by Paul Butler.



MotoGP should never be considered a contact sport and anyone that thinks it is needs to be reminded of the serious consequences and repercussions that can occur even when riders arent "bashing fairings". Think Kato, Rainey, Doohan etc etc.



It is already dangerous enough and the head of safety should NOT be encouraging "contact".....especially considering the extreme corner speeds and lean angles we are seeing in the 800cc class. So for a rider to remonstrate when he deems an incident to be putting himself or others at risk then I have no problem with him making an issue of it.



I like close racing as much as anyone but I much prefer a rider to make a clean, skillful pass than attempt to barge their way past and punt a rider off the track in the process - I believe this is the issue certain riders are trying to highlight at the safety commission as we speak.

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Whilst I think a lot may be getting read into Butler's comments (specifically the contact part) I totally agree with the sentiment that at no time should a senior race or controlling body official make a comment aligning Motorcycle Racing to a contact sport. Their personal view may be that 'rubbing is racing' but at no time should they make public that view, and nor should the place this view above rider safety and/or allow it to influence their decision making process with relation to their race day duties.



No doubt, a lot of marshalls have their favourite riders and no doubt they would love to see that rider win, but a marshall will report a rider who gains an advantage because that is the marshall's job, they will not 'let it slide' because of whom the rider was, just as race direction should not let personal feelings influence them.



I will be interested to see how Butler's replacement acts in the ensuing years.











Gaz