Laguna Seca - Race discussion

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Jul 21 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>10. Shinya Nakano JPN - TJ.

Cracked me up again.

Marco screwed up pretty bad, he was like 9th?, but then went out to the sand. But what you gonna do, if he can't even keep the bike on track.

West was horrible, obviously and Edvards was surprisingly uncompetetive too.

Toni Elias, on the other hand, was a positive surprise. Is he getting better on the Ducati or did he just have a good day?

Btw. Isn't the TJ the most consistent rider in MotoGP this year?!

What an amazing race!! Thrilling stuff

Yamaha found something after practice, and it was great to see a close battle between the worlds best riders and the best race this year. Stoner was obviously slightly quicker but just couldn't pass and maintain the lead, for me it looked similar to China 07. Rossi's tactic had to be pass stoner at all costs and it could be seen in the way he was riding. Rossi's corckscrew move was a bit borderline but nothing came of it and I actually think it was Rossi's willingness to make ruthless moves like that which made victory possible. The pchycological advantage from this race might be worth more than the 5 points he gained. I think that was the best race i've seen Rossi run since Malaysia 06, it's a shame Stoner toppled off with that mistake but these things happen in close racing.

Veremuellen did well to make up for his qualifying disappointment, but he always goes well here so its not real surprise. I think Doviziozo put in the best ride of his motogp career considering the circumstances, and Hayden has got to be disappointed with the loss he suffered. Andrea has been closing in faster and faster on Jorge airshow for rookie of the year. Spies did pretty much as i expected, a good race for sure but i was more impressed with what he achieved in the UK. Edwards was a let down. I was really gutted for DeAgnelis to get hurt this weekend because he's been on a strong run of form and i like him. Pedrosa will have to be gutted because he'll need to do some serious winning to get back into play, and i'm not convinved that will happen.

I haven't had a long long but i've been and will continue to be amused by the forums inconsistent reaction to many of the goings on this weekend. For a start, Stoner is losing respect and being called a whiner, but from the same people who didn't think that was a fair label when Rossi did the same. Also Stoner has been "schooled" and people will say he just isn't good enough, while in other races Rossi only crashed because he had to over-ride his bike to keep up. Or even as recently as Assen, Rossi was given so much credit for his riding, while Stoner finished 2nd with his crash - far more impressive. I'm also sure some people out there i'm sure will be furious with a "dangerous and out of control Rossi" for doing a Cardenas at the corckscrew, unless of course the standards change when the outcome is desirable And naturally Rossi only won because the bike was the best. hahahahaha

A few other things that I noticed this weekend which may or may not interest other members but i'll out it down anyway.....................................

Rossi has never won a world championship with less than 9 victories, to get there he'd have to win all bu two of the races remaining. I think unlikely.

Rossi has never had to fight a championship out with another premier class world champion, making Stoner look like the toughest and most qualified rival yet.

Daijiro Katoh is still the last Japanese rider to win a motorcycling world title, and that doesn't look likely to change soon.

West sucks

I was worried that the race would be snooze fest with Casey disappearing into the distance but I was so happy to be wrong. It was a great, great race by two great riders.

I don't think there has been an edge to Rossi lately, but that little bit of nastiness (I'm not sure if it's the right word) is back.

As for Casey, there seemed to be no Plan B. Not every race can be won by disappearing into the distance and maybe he should have been a bit more patient in waiting for an opportunity to pass instead of forcing it.

Great battle and some valuable learning experiences to come out of this for Casey.
For sure he will gradually become stringer in racecraft on and off the track.
Hope Lorenzo gets back to his former ways soon and the month break will be good for him.
The second half of the season is looking delicious.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 21 2008, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A few other things that I noticed this weekend which may or may not interest other members but i'll out it down anyway.....................................

Rossi has never won a world championship with less than 9 victories, to get there he'd have to win all bu two of the races remaining. I think unlikely.


Rossi has never had to fight a championship out with another premier class world champion, making Stoner look like the toughest and most qualified rival yet.


West sucks

I read a quote from Rossi where he said he has more points already this year than he had all of last year AND there are still seven races left. Points win championships, not race wins. But you knew that already didn't you?

Whatever you may think of him and/or his lone title, Kenny Jr. was dethroned by Rossi.

"West sucks" is an understatement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 21 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What an amazing race!! Thrilling stuff

Yamaha found something after practice, and it was great to see a close battle between the worlds best riders and the best race this year.

Rossi has never won a world championship with less than 9 victories, to get there he'd have to win all bu two of the races remaining. I think unlikely.

Rossi has never had to fight a championship out with another premier class world champion, making Stoner look like the toughest and most qualified rival yet.

West sucks

I've annotated your lengthy quote to the bits I'm commenting on.

The speed of the Yamaha - in average speed analysis it was only .7 km/h behind the Ducati (point 7 that is, not even a full "one"). These bikes were damn close!

Nicki also won a world championship but with 252 points and 2 victories, Casey got 367 points and 10 victories and only Valentino has been remotely capable of anything like that in the post Doohan era. I like Nicki but his championship was more about Vale losing it rather than him winning it, and Vale won more races.

Irrespective of any opinion people hold about Casey he is a worthy adversary and the best premier class challenge that Valentino has faced thus far – think of the group of riders with 10+ premier class victories a season (there is only 4 of them) and two of them are racing each other this year, NEVER happened before.

As for Casey’s comments post race – storm in a teacup, he really should have shut up and let it out on the racetrack – Valentino plays much harder in the Court of public opinion and a little spat between Valentino and anyone else always goes Vale’s way.

That said, he didn’t really say that much and he threw himself on his sword for going off the track. He should take pride in the fact that very few riders have ever made Vale that desperate to win. The worst thing that could ever happen to Valentino is to be thought an “unworthy” champion.

If the end of the season arrives and Casey has won more races but Vale gets the championship it will be a hollow victory for Vale, as it will land some of the disparaging commentary he provided on Nicki’s championship back at his feet.

Westy should jump ship because he does suck. Completely and utterly. I know Bikergirl gets upset but Marco is looking pretty bad on the back of Elias's result, and what happened to Edwards!

All in all in makes for great racing…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reel Nauti @ Jul 21 2008, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I read a quote from Rossi where he said he has more points already this year than he had all of last year AND there are still seven races left. Points win championships, not race wins. But you knew that already didn't you?

Whatever you may think of him and/or his lone title, Kenny Jr. was dethroned by Rossi.

My point exactly!! Points win titles, and Rossi is fighting his toughest season to date so he needs them. I'm loving it.

Rossi did dethrone KRJR, just as he technically rode against Nicky for the title last year, but neither were ever real contenders.

Well thank god Casey didn't feck off into the distance. Not since Estoril 2006 have I watched a race through my fingers, Casey and Rossi were both hungry and just awesome neither one giving an inch, a testament to both their commitment and racing spirit. Alright Casey had a whinge, but you know if you get cut up in your car your gonna have a slight whinge and get over it and move on. He should realise that it is a great compliment really that he made Rossi ride as hard as that and lets face it up until he fell there was no letting up by either of them. Plus the fact that even falling off and still getting second is still a good day at the office. I did notice that one of Stoners race engineers wagged his finger at him as if to say be careful what you say, and once he got on the podium you could see a definite change in his body language. Rossi is such a cocky sod and of course he is going to milk the fact that on the day he had the psychological advantage, who wouldn't. My biggest fear is that this is a Gibenau moment and Stoner has been psychologically broken. I don't think so.

Rossi has to qualify well from now on to be in with a shout as if Casey gets the chance now to bugger off into the sunset you won't see him for dust. So here is hoping that we see more of this titanic duelling in the next few races. I couldn't really care who wins this awesome grudge match but it will definitely be something not to miss.

As it has been said over and over again, lucky Roger and Jumkie, that's a day they are never gonna forget and definitely the race of 2008. Wonder how much alcohol has been consumed and whether they can remember who they are. Unless of course Jumkie has killed Rog for gloating ha ha.

XX Liz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 21 2008, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Irrespective of any opinion people hold about Casey he is a worthy adversary and the best premier class challenge that Valentino has faced thus far – think of the group of riders with 10+ premier class victories a season (there is only 4 of them) and two of them are racing each other this year, NEVER happened before.

As for Casey’s comments post race – storm in a teacup, he really should have shut up and let it out on the racetrack – Valentino plays much harder in the Court of public opinion and a little spat between Valentino and anyone else always goes Vale’s way.

If the end of the season arrives and Casey has won more races but Vale gets the championship it will be a hollow victory for Vale, as it will land some of the disparaging commentary he provided on Nicki’s championship back at his feet.

Yeam man i've been saying all year its a thrill to be watching this championship battle, i'd imagine a few more people are enthused now!!

Getting in a spat with Rossi is suicide in so many ways, Stoner's complaints will motivate Rossi and thats the opposite of what Casey should be trying to achieve!

Do you really think Rossi's title will be hollow if he doesn't win the most races?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 21 2008, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeam man i've been saying all year its a thrill to be watching this championship battle, i'd imagine a few more people are enthused now!!

Getting in a spat with Rossi is suicide in so many ways, Stoner's complaints will motivate Rossi and thats the opposite of what Casey should be trying to achieve!

Do you really think Rossi's title will be hollow if he doesn't win the most races?


Absolutely - I don't want to dig through the million (it seems) motorcycle magazines I have here BUT Valentino did a couple of interviews after Nicki won the championship and really took the high ground in regard to winning more races than Nicki.

Valentino has said this innumerable times as has JB, and JB said it this year in Aus MC News, it is oft repeated and nobody likes to be hoisted on their own petard (I love that saying, very medieval)

Valentino has prided himself on being a race winner more than a championship winner.

Doohan used to scoff at the idea of riding for a championship - he used to say "I just win races and let the championship look after itself..."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 21 2008, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely - I don't want to dig through the million (it seems) motorcycle magazines I have here BUT Valentino did a couple of interviews after Nicki won the championship and really took the high ground in regard to winning more races than Nicki.

Valentino has said this innumerable times as has JB, and JB said it this year in Aus MC News, it is oft repeated and nobody likes to be hoisted on their own petard (I love that saying, very medieval)

Valentino has prided himself on being a race winner more than a championship winner.

Doohan used to scoff at the idea of riding for a championship - he used to say "I just win races and let the championship look after itself..."

Interesting stuff. I can't wait to see how this turns out

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 21 2008, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Westy should jump ship because he does suck. Completely and utterly. I know Bikergirl gets upset but Marco is looking pretty bad on the back of Elias's result, and what happened to Edwards!

All in all in makes for great racing…
I do get upset for him but I'm not blind. It's tough to see him go so downhill in such a short time. Frankly if I were him I wouldn't even finish out the season with Kawa because if he keeps this up he'll be out of a job next year. If he waits till the beginning of the next season at least he's got a 1 year contract under his belt. I say this from a person perspective. As a racing fan, I don't like to see people struggle and being on track just to make up the numbers. I'm realistic. If he's lost it, he should go. But there's worse than him out there even in this pathetic state.

As for Elias, he always delivers the goods when it's contract renewal time. He then proceeds to put his b@lls in storage for the next 11 months.

As for the Stoner 'controversy', I heard Stoner interviewed on Italian telly right after the race. I am less upset at him now because I keep reminding myself to make allowances for his youth...which from this point on I will. He was specifically asked whether it was one incident or several, and his response was that it was several, but took the blame for dropping it entirely on himself. So it's not just the corkscrew incident.
Valentino was then interviewed right after that and his comments were something along the lines of "I never touched him on overtaking him, but he did touch me once when he overtook me."
As for the corkscrew incident, which was replayed in slow motion several times for the commentators to dissect, they pointed out Stoner was behind (should've seen it coming) and it was obvious that valentino had nowhere else to go. Now I know these guys are italian and vale is close to their hearts, but they have always had nothing but massive praise for Casey, who is, after all, the rider who gave Ducati a world championship and they got pretty annoyed at him yesterday.
Interestingly, Suppo, who always concedes an interview after the race, was not heard from. I think he didn't want to go into the controversy that Casey stirred up. He is the one of the most diplomatic persons in the paddock, and the fact he didn't come on to comment says a lot.

Also a lot of people on here seem to be saying if it weren't Vale at the corkscrew, anyone else would have been penalised. Racing used to be a lot more aggressive until not too long ago. I think riders who can't handle it should go back to kindergarten. And as for being penalised, when Biaggi elbowed Rossi on the straight in Japan some years back, it was Rossi who got penalised for showing him the middle finger in return. So sorry, I disagree with you. Rossi's had penalties aplenty over the years and is not surrounded by some sort of 'immunity bubble' like some people seem to think.

As for the rest of the field, which I've not commented on so far, I think Dovi was fantastic. First Honda. First Michelins. Someone said that this would have sealed his ride at HRC and Hayden's at Ducati. Really? If I were Ducati I would seriously reconsider. Now I know Jumkie will be hurt and take this personally, but Hayden was beaten at his home track, the one he's supposed to know inside out and pretty much the only race that his team could be reasonably confident of him winning, never mind by the two racing off into the distance at the front, but by a rookie, on a client bike!! Of course beggars can't be choosers and not many would be willing to take on the Duc at this point, whereas maybe Hayden can make it go. But WHY was Hayden beaten by a rookie on an unofficial bike? Dovi IS good, but is Hayden really so mediocre?


Oh and someone commented on how Stoner's wife didn't flinch when he dropped it. Anyone noticed how stick thin she has become since becoming Mrs Stoner? Methinks she's one of those people who hold it all inside...she must be nursing a stomach ulcer the size of an empty dinner plate.

i love this forum

Why is stoner such a cry baby ?

BTW, what's Marco's job status?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Jul 21 2008, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why is stoner such a cry baby ?

because he's a racer, and he lost. It's pretty normal behaviour.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 21 2008, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Also a lot of people on here seem to be saying if it weren't Vale at the corkscrew, anyone else would have been penalised. Racing used to be a lot more aggressive until not too long ago. I think riders who can't handle it should go back to kindergarten. And as for being penalised, when Biaggi elbowed Rossi on the straight in Japan some years back, it was Rossi who got penalised for showing him the middle finger in return. So sorry, I disagree with you. Rossi's had penalties aplenty over the years and is not surrounded by some sort of 'immunity bubble' like some people seem to think.

Oh and someone commented on how Stoner's wife didn't flinch when he dropped it. Anyone noticed how stick thin she has become since becoming Mrs Stoner? Methinks she's one of those people who hold it all inside...she must be nursing a stomach ulcer the size of an empty dinner plate.

For what its worth I said Casey should have just shut up. My point is, Casey is a fast rider who hasn't really had to apply race craft the way Rossi can, and he can and has to learn (I mean, he raced against Dani, who as far as I know lives in a bubble and doesn't touch other humans expect Alberto)

Do I feel sorry for Marco? my furry coat I do – he ran 2nd in this championship as a semi satellite team rider. I really don’t think Kawasaki will help him though, he needs to be back on his old bike (Honda).

She is getting skinny but she is looking mighty fine in the hipster jeans. I’m happily married and all of that but if I was that age again and had one of those I’d let a few more smiles slip out, and take my “comforting” when I’ve had a bad day rather than vocalising it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jul 21 2008, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interestingly, Suppo, who always concedes an interview after the race, was not heard from. I think he didn't want to go into the controversy that Casey stirred up. He is the one of the most diplomatic persons in the paddock, and the fact he didn't come on to comment says a lot.
As I've said before, if there were a wrongdoing we would see the protest delivered by ducati (not Stoner) and it never materialized. Case closed.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As for the rest of the field, which I've not commented on so far, I think Dovi was fantastic. First Honda. First Michelins. Someone said that this would have sealed his ride at HRC and Hayden's at Ducati. Really?
It must have been a hard blow to Hayden. He was not a happy man after the race and that was easy to see. Allthough it must be said that Dovi did a fantastic race and it was not only Hayden he beat, but everyone except the three at the top.

Btw. Good post BG

Have already given my thoughts on the race and Corkscrew incident but left the 'penalty' question alone a bit as I thought it may well pass and die down quickly given the (IMO) absurdity of it.

IMO, if anyone did lodge a formal (note the word formal) protest/complaint about that or any other incident it would be unjustified and should be thrown out without any consideration at all.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sarto @ Jul 20 2008, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like Firefox, but it has issues with embedded video. It seems to work ok at first, but then dies after a while. I haven't looked it up, but just might do so.

Did anybody else have a problem with the live streaming feed from MotoGP.
I have the Hi-Res package, but it wouldn't even stream on the lower res.
I doubt they will get any money out of me next year.


Yes. At first when I logged on and tried to watch the live feed - I only go frozen images along with good audio and switched to low-res. Then just before the race actually started I tried for the 7th time and found the high res was working okay. I have been using the Real Time plug-in to watch but can't figure out what the alternative plug-in is called so I have no idea where to download it for a try. Does anyone know the name of the other plug-in??? Also . . . there is large button at the bottom of the choices for some kind of extra-high res streaming but I have no idea what it is. Do I need some kind of T-1 connection to use it??? Please if someone knows - say something.
Thanks,
KD