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KTM: "in Ducati they think they are smarter"

Joined Feb 2018
681 Posts | 535+
Italy
Just ran into this article on Italian media. Google-translated it as I don't have time to do it myself, hope it's understandable...

Countdown to the ruling of the Fim Court of Appeals.

Countdown to the Fim Court of Appeals ruling, which will rule on the Ducati device in the next few hours. Mike Leitner, the technical director of Red Bull KTM Factory Team in an interview with Speedweek does not hide his irritation. "In December, such a spoiler under the swingarm would not have been allowed yet. But eight days before the Grand Prix in Qatar it suddenly had no more aerodynamic function, but of tire cooling. Even a child realizes that the aerodynamic load is generated when I mount an appendix under the swingarm and then install three fins ... But if Gigi Dall’Igna believes he is the smartest, I cannot change the situation ”.

"The judges received all sorts of information. Suzuki and Aprilia brought the aerodynamics Filippo Petrucci, who previously worked with Michael Schumacher in F1 at Ferrari. But there has been no analysis later, so we cannot know what the verdict will be. Now we have to wait for the announcement ".

For Leitner “Ducati always protests for a series of stable rules. And while all manufacturers have built 2019 prototypes based on December's aerodynamic guidelines, Ducati continues to deceive and convince the technical director to adopt a new version of the rules ".
 
My thoughts: someone's ... is burning (this is also a straight translation from an Italian saying :D) because despite the millions they keep investing they can barely beat the Aprilias....
 
My thoughts: someone's ... is burning (this is also a straight translation from an Italian saying :D) because despite the millions they keep investing they can barely beat the Aprilias....

Does seem pointless for KTM to pursue this as they aren’t within a country mile of Ducati. Just a stupid distraction.
 
I’ve never done drugs but I can assure you this felt like a shot of heroin :D

On a more serious note, I’m not your average Ducatista, but I’m just sick of how much .... they get from other manufactures because of their inventive skills. This is a prototypes championship after all.

Be careful with that, because if it really is. Spec electronic/hardware & tires are ....!

I said this in a previous post.

" This is prototype racing, set limitation on the amount each factory can spend per year. That way the factory teams are not running away from the satellite teams. Heck, I would even suggest for the use of their own preparatory ECU/software. Each factory team must support their satellite teams up to 75% operating cost. The racing would remain close but without the ........ of rider slowing the pace down. Innovation in the engine, electronics and other aspect of the machine would continue thru out each season. But it would be controlled due the annual cap & operating cost support to the satellite teams."
 
I wonder why Yamaha didn’t protest?. They too have mostly prospered by being smarter than Honda with less resources/money, including employing some of the greatest riders ever.

I am opposed to aerodynamics because of what transpired in F1, not that I care much about current F1, but how is this different in principle from Honda stealing a march with their gearbox?. Ducati on the other hand have mostly been screwed over, in motogp anyway, whenever they came up with anything, even when they chanced upon a superlative rider.
 
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The way I see it moving forwards is KTM, aprilia, Suzuki, Honda and Maverick Vinales (not Rossi) will premiere a version of the swingarm wing/cooler. Don't think it will happen this week, maybe for aprilia, but Suzuki and Honda will further develop the idea, before introducing on a race weekend.

As far as I know, Rossi is the only rider in the field to have used up both his fairing designs. All riders have only two, and to gain effect from the rear wing, it looks like the belly pan needs a redesign to channel air towards it. Check out photos of the Ducatis from Qatar, you can see the rear of belly pan is very much narrower than previous iterations.

KTM will bring something, though they probably have more pressing issues to resolve than this.

Aprilia already have something in the works, so maybe the next factory to introduce some changes.

I expect Honda and Suzuki to debut their second fairing design within three rounds, and likely the #12 Yamaha not long after.

If all factories have to use their second fairing design to counter this, Ducati clearly have the upper hand as they get first look at every other fairing design on the grid.
 
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I wonder why Yamaha didn’t protest?. They too have mostly prospered by being smarter than Honda with less resources/money, including employing some of the greatest riders ever.

I am opposed to aerodynamics because of what transpired in F1, not that I care much about current F1, but how is this different in principle from Honda stealing a march with their gearbox?. Ducati on the other hand have mostly been screwed over, in motogp anyway, whenever they came up with anything, even when they chanced upon a superlative rider.

Yamaha used an almost identical device on Rossi's bike last year, saying it was for diverting water in a wet race. I expect they were taking a wait and see attitude in the expectation that they might employ it again without censure.
 
Yamaha used an almost identical device on Rossi's bike last year, saying it was for diverting water in a wet race. I expect they were taking a wait and see attitude in the expectation that they might employ it again without censure.

I didn't know that. I am wondering whether the acme of KTM's ambition is to be the best also ran to Honda though.
 
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I think the comparison between F1 and MotoGP aerodynamics is completely non-sense. A F1 car has much more area to work out over this kind of solution, it's another story. In a bike we barely see any significant differences. I can't see any infinity spiraling increasing in costs because of this.

MotoGP will not going anywhere likewise F1.
 
I wonder why Yamaha didn’t protest?. They too have mostly prospered by being smarter than Honda with less resources/money, including employing some of the greatest riders ever.

I am opposed to aerodynamics because of what transpired in F1, not that I care much about current F1, but how is this different in principle from Honda stealing a march with their gearbox?. Ducati on the other hand have mostly been screwed over, in motogp anyway, whenever they came up with anything, even when they chanced upon a superlative rider.



Because they used basically the exact same tool in Valencia last year.
 
I think the comparison between F1 and MotoGP aerodynamics is completely non-sense. A F1 car has much more area to work out over this kind of solution, it's another story. In a bike we barely see any significant differences. I can't see any infinity spiraling increasing in costs because of this.

MotoGP will not going anywhere likewise F1.


Agree and even more importantly, the physic forces on a car tend to be very similar in the way they influence it (not in the intensity, of course) while on a motorcycle due to the moving/leaning they tend to change almost all the time.

Something hard to figure is how much the bike's aero-solutions influence small details of the riding...while on cars, they can be huge.

I'm no engineer so forgive my lack of technical insights :D
 
Agree and even more importantly, the physic forces on a car tend to be very similar in the way they influence it (not in the intensity, of course) while on a motorcycle due to the moving/leaning they tend to change almost all the time.

Something hard to figure is how much the bike's aero-solutions influence small details of the riding...while on cars, they can be huge.

I'm no engineer so forgive my lack of technical insights :D

I am not either. I do recall it being said that they could make a bike significantly faster with aerodynamics but the resultant bike required so much effort to ride that the rider would only last a few laps.

I haven’t followed this as closely as some but it sounds as though at least part of the problem is inconsistency with differing attitudes to different manufacturers in Yamaha, Ducati and Aprilia. I certainly don’t favour Ducati being allowed something but not Aprilia.
 
I am not either. I do recall it being said that they could make a bike significantly faster with aerodynamics but the resultant bike required so much effort to ride that the rider would only last a few laps.

I haven’t followed this as closely as some but it sounds as though at least part of the problem is inconsistency with differing attitudes to different manufacturers in Yamaha, Ducati and Aprilia. I certainly don’t favour Ducati being allowed something but not Aprilia.



It was Nakamoto San who said that. It would appear they did make that bike. I remember he also said it was ugly.
 

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