KILL TC!!!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By speculation from the Rossifans yes he did ...... Ducati, nor there riders, said nothing


So then we get more:


what is a "Rossifan myth" gets truly assimilated by Rog.
no but Toby , Jules and Randy were banging on about it so it was pretty common knowledge for everyone but you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>By speculation from the Rossifans yes he did ...... Ducati, nor there riders, said nothing
Barry, I can't remember ever responding to one of your posts because they simply bewilder me. Because of the bizarre things that you come out with like 'Super Shinya', you get utterly hammered on here on a regular basis so I guess I just amuse myself watching that happen whenever you appear. Because, when you do you seem to both say things for the sake of it, and always end up hanging yourselves.

No it wasn't speculation by Rossi fans at all, it was in point of fact, speculated by pundits in the paddock at the time and was later confirmed by Alex himself. Of course, I accept this may not be true, but to suggest that I raised this simply because several fans of Vale also believed this to be the case is ridiculous. Of course Ducati declined to comment you knob, they wouldn't would they!!

I remember this being a very significant incident at the time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 25 2009, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry, I can't remember ever responding to one of your posts because they simply bewilder me. Because of the bizarre things that you come out with like 'Super Shinya', you get utterly hammered on here on a regular basis so I guess I just amuse myself watching that happen whenever you appear. Because, when you do you seem to both say things for the sake of it, and always end up hanging yourselves.

No it wasn't speculation by Rossi fans at all, it was in point of fact, speculated by pundits in the paddock at the time and was later confirmed by Alex himself. Of course, I accept this may not be true, but to suggest that I raised this simply because several fans of Vale also believed this to be the case is ridiculous. Of course Ducati declined to comment you knob, they wouldn't would they!!

I remember this being a very significant incident at the time.
You know what they say Arrab.." give them enough rope".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2009, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>different story on the curvy bits tho wasn't it !
Which was of course entirely a reflection of rider talent and nothing to do with other characteristics of the respective bikes .

I actually don't get the denigration of stoner and previously hayden by rossi fans ( I don't mean you or most on here roger), which would seem self defeating particularly when simultaneously proclaiming rossi as the GOAT . I don't disagree with him being the GOAT, but if there is any caveat it is the quality of the opposition he has faced, compared to say eddie lawson who also won championships for two different manufacturers and races for 3 different manufacturers including cagiva(!). I certainly don't believe biaggi and gibernau were as good as spencer, gardner et al, and if stoner is no good despite having won sixteen races against rossi, then coming back to dominate him in 2008 was not much of an achievement and rossi still hasn't really beaten anyone .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2009, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>guess you didn't read Barros's interview about ducati throwing all there resources at one bike. Barros didn't even have a suspension technician. im not taking away from the wonders stoner has done on that bike but that's not forget different riders get different levels of support and different parts at different time's. we all know it happened at HRC too.
No questioning that there are different levels of support within a factory team, no doubt about that. But let's not get carried away, Barros was riding for d'Antin. Remember Luis d'Antin? The guy who didn't pay his hotel bills nor his employees? I'm not surprised that Barros didn't have a suspension tech. That falls at the feet of d'Antin and when Ducati got word of it they stepped in and took control of the team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 25 2009, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which was of course entirely a reflection of rider talent and nothing to do with other characteristics of the respective bikes .

I actually don't get the denigration of stoner and previously hayden by rossi fans ( I don't mean you or most on here roger), which would seem self defeating particularly when simultaneously proclaiming rossi as the GOAT . I don't disagree with him being the GOAT, but if there is any caveat it is the quality of the opposition he has faced, compared to say eddie lawson who also won championships for two different manufacturers and races for 3 different manufacturers including cagiva(!). I certainly don't believe biaggi and gibernau were as good as spencer , gardner et al, and if stoner is no good despite having won sixteen races against rossi then coming back to dominate him in 2008 was not much of an achievement and rossi still hasn't really beaten anyone .
Sound post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Feb 26 2009, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No questioning that there are different levels of support within a factory team, no doubt about that. But let's not get carried away, Barros was riding for d'Antin. Remember Luis d'Antin? The guy who didn't pay his hotel bills nor his employees? I'm not surprised that Barros didn't have a suspension tech. That falls at the feet of d'Antin and when Ducati got word of it they stepped in and took control of the team.

Thank you Austin ......... seems so odd that so many on here choose to forget such facts

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 26 2009, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You know what they say Arrab.." give them enough rope".

Exactly Rog. ....... only the problem seems with you is you keep hanging yourself, but it means bugger-all to you ........ you are like ........ "the post Zombie". You get shot down ad-nauseum but just keep banging on with the fairy tales

Some of the "stuff" Rog.s believes/has backed in the past:


Stoner has a bigger engine than 800

Stoner has hidden fuel reserves

Stoner has more TC.

Its the tyres! ( this one may have had a modicum of truth, but who will ever know as other indications from the fans have Rossi riding around all possible problem )

Rossi doesn't use TC

TC is brand new in 06

Ducati scolded Barros for coming 4th in front of Stoner.

Melandri will show how the Ducati is the best bike out there.

The Ducati is the best bike out there.

Anyone can ride and win a WC on Stoners Ducati

If Rossi was on a Ducati he would clean up.

Adrianna has the hots for Rossi

Adrianna would have the hots for Rog.

.........


the list seems/ed non-stop

Another incongruous thing about the "Barros got scolded" myth ......... The points loss between Stoner and Barros was pretty minimal.

Ducati still had a Ducati on the podium.

How good does it look when only Stoner wins/podiums on the Duc. .... not good for Duc. thats for sure ...... the more podiums on "a Duc." the better for Duc. one would have thought Sure they like Stoner winning ...... but you can't tell me Suppo didn't know that if only Stoner was winning the eventual outcome would be that folk would begin to think " its Stoner .... not the Duc." .... as seems to be coming to bear at present ........ though its taken the Rossifans over a year to realise it.

What possible benefits would there have been for Duc. to ask Barros to loose on purpose?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 26 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>bizarre things that you come out with like 'Super Shinya',

??? I can't remember ever calling Nakano "Super" ??

you obviously have me mixed up with someone else ....... show me where I said that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 26 2009, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course Ducati declined to comment you knob, they wouldn't would they!!

Either that or it was as it seemed ..... nothing happened but not being one to react to "no story" and invent my own ....... I kinda fall in favour of there was nothing in it.

Show me the exact words where you believe Barros was saying he was hassled by Ducati because he beat Stoner.. I'm too lazy to bother looking .... because it was dismissed as ........ at the time

From memory SToner and Ducati had bigger problems than Barros at that time might be better you chase that up for eDUCATIons sake!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Show me the exact words where you believe Barros was saying he was hassled by Ducati because he beat Stoner.. I'm too lazy to bother looking .... because it was dismissed as ........ at the time
Q: You had a contract that was good for 2008 as well, is that right?
AB: Yes, but Paolo Campinotti, Pramac owner, called me and said that, in a meeting with the Ducati Corse bosses, big boss Claudio Domenicali asked that the situation that happened in the Italian GP, when I passed Stoner at the end of the race and was 3rd, never repeat itself. In other words, I'd have to subject myself to always coming in behind the factory riders, and that I just can't accept. If the championship had been in a crucial phase, so be it, but that was the sixth GP in a season of 18! The commitment they wanted me to agree to isn't right, in my point of view, and hence my leaving. In fact, there's people at Ducati in my favor, the people in the commercial department, that believe that with me on board, sales in Brazil would improve. But it seems that Domenicali's wishes prevailed...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Feb 26 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Q: You had a contract that was good for 2008 as well, is that right?
AB: Yes, but Paolo Campinotti, Pramac owner, called me and said that, in a meeting with the Ducati Corse bosses, big boss Claudio Domenicali asked that the situation that happened in the Italian GP, when I passed Stoner at the end of the race and was 3rd, never repeat itself. In other words, I'd have to subject myself to always coming in behind the factory riders, and that I just can't accept. If the championship had been in a crucial phase, so be it, but that was the sixth GP in a season of 18! The commitment they wanted me to agree to isn't right, in my point of view, and hence my leaving. In fact, there's people at Ducati in my favor, the people in the commercial department, that believe that with me on board, sales in Brazil would improve. But it seems that Domenicali's wishes prevailed...

link buddy .... because as well you may remember .... that was a dubious translation ....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 25 2009, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>link buddy .... because as well you may remember .... that was a dubious translation ....
Of course it's a dubious translation. You just asked for the words, not an extensive and well-researched treatise on their legitimacy.

You are on a loser with this one barry. The barros thing was very widely reported in the media at the time, not just by rossi fans on forums, and I have seen direct quotes from barros on several occasions including in an extensive interview after he retired. It is possible barros was being self-serving in his comments, but he definitely made them. If it is true which would seem likely then it was stupid on ducati's part for several reasons including some you have mentioned, particularly as it was not all that likely to happen again without ducati intervention.

On the other hand, whilst it may be that once the championship was in prospect stoner was being favoured equipment-wise, as is usually the case in most teams in most forms of motorsport (with the possible exception of repsol honda in 2006 ), there is no reason at all why stoner would have started with better equipment than loris capirossi in 2007 and I believe he supplanted capirossi as the number 1 rider because of better early season results on the same equipment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 26 2009, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On the other hand, whilst it may be that once the championship was in prospect stoner was being favoured equipment-wise, as is usually the case in most teams in most forms of motorsport (with the possible exception of repsol honda in 2006 ), there is no reason at all why stoner would have started with better equipment than loris capirossi in 2007 and I believe he supplanted capirossi as the number 1 rider because of better early season results on the same equipment.

I think you covered the first argument to be brought up .... were the "barros-files" to be true ....... yes first question then if Ducati have favourites then ..... how did Stoner get away with early 07 over Capi!?

Hence reported widely or not
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 26 2009, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is possible barros was being self-serving in his comments, but he definitely made them.

If Barros indeed made them ..... this is a pretty likely scenario ...... he definitely didn't find much help in D'antin and may have wanted some of the help Stoner was getting, indeed it must have been hard to watch the emphasis switch to Stoner as 07 progressed.

But nonetheless ........ many things reported ( widely or otherwise ) are not necessarily true if it were the case ....... Stoner would in fact have been on the "best bike" with the most electronics. Luckily old mother time has allowed the reality of those "reports" to come out ..... or become obvious for all.

You may have read several reports on the above ...... who knows whether they are true or not? .....given that it indeed would have been somewhat of a bombshell ...... why was no video of Barros "saying" such put forward? ...... surely it would have been of import enough for him to have ensured even the english speaking public knew of his plight ...... why did no such thing happen? ........

Seems a funny thing to just put forward in such a hush hush manner and then not follow it through

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Feb 26 2009, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No questioning that there are different levels of support within a factory team, no doubt about that. But let's not get carried away, Barros was riding for d'Antin. Remember Luis d'Antin? The guy who didn't pay his hotel bills nor his employees? I'm not surprised that Barros didn't have a suspension tech. That falls at the feet of d'Antin and when Ducati got word of it they stepped in and took control of the team.


Sound post.
That may be so, But i was answering slides post where he implys all the ducati's were the same by comparing there results !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 26 2009, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Exactly Rog. ....... only the problem seems with you is you keep hanging yourself, but it means bugger-all to you ........ you are like ........ "the post Zombie". You get shot down ad-nauseum but just keep banging on with the fairy tales

Some of the "stuff" Rog.s believes/has backed in the past:


Stoner has a bigger engine than 800

Stoner has hidden fuel reserves

Stoner has more TC.

Its the tyres! ( this one may have had a modicum of truth, but who will ever know as other indications from the fans have Rossi riding around all possible problem )

Rossi doesn't use TC

TC is brand new in 06

Ducati scolded Barros for coming 4th in front of Stoner.

Melandri will show how the Ducati is the best bike out there.

The Ducati is the best bike out there.

Anyone can ride and win a WC on Stoners Ducati

If Rossi was on a Ducati he would clean up.

Adrianna has the hots for Rossi

Adrianna would have the hots for Rog.

.........


the list seems/ed non-stop
You talk out of your arse !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 26 2009, 02:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>??? I can't remember ever calling Nakano "Super" ??

you obviously have me mixed up with someone else ....... show me where I said that
Are you really that thick ? Your being compared to a troll you jerk

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 26 2009, 02:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>link buddy .... because as well you may remember .... that was a dubious translation ....
Why do you ask for links to stuff that happened in 07. It was posted back then and you saw it. Like you said to slide. Go ....... look yourself !!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 26 2009, 06:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>guess you didn't read Barros's interview about ducati throwing all there resources at one bike. Barros didn't even have a suspension technician. im not taking away from the wonders stoner has done on that bike but that's not forget different riders get different levels of support and different parts at different time's. we all know it happened at HRC too.


Yeah, agreed, but I don't think Ducati threw all their resources at Stoner.
Duc were paying Stoner less than Euro 500,000 a year in 2007 on a one year deal, and paying Cap more than Euro 2,500,000 per year being their No. 1 rider.
Duc took Stoner on in 2007 as a risk, and as a trial, with low expectations, after trying to secure Hayden and failing, and trying to secure Marco and failing. They did not expect big things from Stoner until after his second test when he clicked with the bike, and then at Qatar when he smoked eveyone.
I don't believe Ducati threw all their resources behind Stoner at the beginning of the season. Maybe late in 2007 when he was leading the Championship and heading for World Champion, but by then he had already beaten everyone, includeing Loris.

I can accept that Stoner got priority on 2008 with Marco, but what else could you expect Ducati to do.