Japanese GP

Regardless of how good Marquez is (he's good), how nuts Marquez is (he's nuts) and how dangerous Marquez is (he's dangerous), I don't believe for one second that his bike does not have some type mechanical advantage that creates the speed differentials with the other guys we are seeing. I don't believe for one second that it's just getting better drive, being lighter, having different gearing or better aero. Moreover, I don't believe for one second that it is a coincidence that it happens to be his bike that has this (what I perceive to be) mechanical advantage. Call me paranoid, but I think a class like Moto2 is actually quite vunerable to this kind of manipulation. Remember when Aprillia pretty much decided who had a shot at being 250cc champion in the last years of that class? At least back then, there was still some competition between manufacturers (remember Aoyama's title?). With everyone officially on the same engine and chassis development propably converging (in fact it would not suprise me if in the long run, there would only remain 1 competitive chassis builder), what's stopping them (i.e. Dorna, in the case of Marquez Repsol and Honda) from pushing forward the "protagonists", as Ezy likes to call it, as seen fit?

baturro said:

MA- Do you know for a FACT that if you put MM engine and another on the grid that they wouldn´t be identical? You don´t. You know about as much what´s going on tec wise as anyone on this or any other forum. Discussing .... we are millions of miles from. Closest I got to a GP garage was in Motegi, 2005 from the fence I could see the rear tire/tyre. You don´t think the guys lineing up next to him on the grid, or their mechanics couldn´t see the extra 400 cc?



In regard to Westie´s claims of a "dud" engine, have you seen these claims? I imagine there is a report somewhere indicating this. Nothing hearsay rummor ...., but a proper documented claim to the third party engine maintenance company would work just fine. Could also be some poor smokescreen for .... results. Can´t be the .... team he´s on. Qatar Racing, bags of stuff in their racing history. He´s been riding the coat tails of him beeing an expert in the rain for a while now, It´s rained a lot since he´s been around and has not much to show for it.



MA- If I was in your bitter shoes I would no longer call myself a fan of the sport, or show. Save my breath/typing time for something true and unspoiled by the greed of the show. I question many of Dorna´s moves. They have ...... up a lot of things trying to better something that never needed fixing in the first place. Moto 2 seems like something they have done right.

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And here you are categorically telling me I am wrong yet at the same time admitting that neither of us knows anything. So why is your position of ignorance more correct than my position of ignorance?



If I were a betting man, I would bet against Dorna not manipulating the sport 100% of the time. Why? Valentino Rossi's career is why.



Last season Marquez was supposed to win the championship but due to his own dangerous riding he failed to achieve it. There is no way that Dorna was going to permit him to fail again. There are lots of reasons why but the primary is that Dorna needs a Moto2 champion to go on and be a MotoGP alien to give Moto2 credibility as a feeder category. Marquez is the rider they hope will do that and therefore he HAD to win this years championship as there is no way he was staying in Moto2 another season. It is the same reason they changed the rookie rule so as to get him on a Factory Honda so he can be at the front. Marquez is the rider who will give Moto2 credibility. Nothing will stand in the way of that happening. Not even multiple on track infringements and especially not another rider.



Oh, and I listened to an interview with Ant West where he discussed at length his engine trouble. But I guess he is Australian and can't be taken on his word. Just like the other Australian who is leaving the sport because Euro's like your self constantly disrespect him by doubting everything he does and says.



You think they got Moto2 right? Well just wait for the rider an bike weight limit which will be implemented once Marquez moves up.

What I am saying is that since neither of us has the hands on tecnical expertise, or are phisicaly there to verify the advantages, those people that are in the situation (Tec inspection, other Mechanics, riders) are the responsible for the exposing or the covering up of said "advantages." And no one, except for the claimed West interview heard by you, has said anything regarding engine anything. If there is no documented evidence of a team doubting an engine then in my view it is all smoke. Of has Dorna destroyed such documents in the cover up??



That is why my ignorance holds more water than yours, I trust people in the GP circus are doing their job. Do you not trust that Ianone and SpeedMaster are not in it to win? I would expect someone like "crazy Joe" to create public tell all exposing said injustices in Moto 2 if your scenario was the case.



Is everyone in GP "on the take?" Pretty expensive cover up for Dorna...



And as for Euros like myself, I doubt you will find another. I have no favorites, just riders that I care less about. I get no paycheck for having a 46 keychain, Tshirt, or 69 hat therefore no rider loyalty. I was just as disapointed Stoner was not gettin credit for his achivements by uniformed naysayers as Marquez is now.

baturro said:

What I am saying is that since neither of us has the hands on tecnical expertise, or are phisicaly there to verify the advantages, those people that are in the situation (Tec inspection, other Mechanics, riders) are the responsible for the exposing or the covering up of said "advantages." And no one, except for the claimed West interview heard by you, has said anything regarding engine anything. If there is no documented evidence of a team doubting an engine then in my view it is all smoke. Of has Dorna destroyed such documents in the cover up??



That is why my ignorance holds more water than yours, I trust people in the GP circus are doing their job. Do you not trust that Ianone and SpeedMaster are not in it to win? I would expect someone like "crazy Joe" to create public tell all exposing said injustices in Moto 2 if your scenario was the case.



Is everyone in GP "on the take?" Pretty expensive cover up for Dorna...



And as for Euros like myself, I doubt you will find another. I have no favorites, just riders that I care less about. I get no paycheck for having a 46 keychain, Tshirt, or 69 hat therefore no rider loyalty. I was just as disapointed Stoner was not gettin credit for his achivements by uniformed naysayers as Marquez is now.

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Last year there were lots of teams using Suters. This year there are not. Why? Because they left Suter because of the favouritism being shown to Marquez. I think you would find that if teams could change engine suppliers they would.



Recently in Australia we had one of our Rugby Union players speak out against the authority. He was lambasted from pillar to post by fans, the media and has basically been told by the governing organisation that he will never play for Australia again. All because he spoke out. Just entertain the proposition that I am right. If Ianone knows that there are good engines and there are bad engines and he knows that Dorna could just as easily issue him a bad one if he spoke out do you think he would open his mouth if he wanted to have a shot at a championship?



Look at the .... Stoner got for speaking out about the crap tyres he was being issued on race day back in 2006. What happen when he mentioned the tyres were being developed away from him in 2008 after Dorna forced Bridgestone to give Rossi tyres after they originally said no. What about Melandri who spoke out about Ducati and got sent to WSBK, what about Biaggi who spoke out about Honda and couldn't get a ride afterwards. Riders, mechanics and teams know that speaking out is the fast track to being ...... over.



To think that Dorna are going to issue a press release saying that they are giving Marquez engines with more grunt is ludicrous. To expect a Journo (lose use of the term) or commentator that earns their living at the ... of Dorna to come out and suggest such a thing is ludicrous.



Marquez and Stoner will never be able to be compared. The reason being is Stoner won against the odds and when he won the rules were changed so that he wouldn't win again. Marquez is winning because all the odds are in his favour and the rules are being changed or ignored to make it easier for him to win. Despite this the narrative is that Marquez is winning because he is brilliant and that Stoner only won because he had an advantage. Marquez will never know what it is like to be Stoner but he will have a good idea of what it was like to be Rossi.

Mental Anarchist said:

So you know for a FACT that you could put any of those engines on a Dyno and the trace will be IDENTICAL?



Well, why is it that a couple of months ago another rider complained that he had received a dud engine that was putting out well below par level of performance. He complained to the authority and was told too bad and he then had to continue using the engine for the allocation of races.



Is it not possible that there are a small percentage of engines that are below the average output, a large percentage that have the average output and then a small percent that have a few more horses? Is it not possible that Dorna knows which engine is which and makes sure that the riders get the engines that suit Dorna's desired outcome?



If you don't believe this is possible then I hate to break it to you but WWF is not real man!



As far as what happened in the race, Marquez takes very tight lines to get up the inside, turns and then shoots it out and under acceleration drives past huge numbers of riders. The kid is good, and his team is good but in a spec engine series I don't believe what he did is possible if he had the same horsepower as every other rider. If you do and you also believe that MotoGP/2 is all above board then good for you and you will no doubt enjoy the entertainment that is coming your way because you are exactly the fan that Dorna is looking for and catering to.

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Im all for a good conspiracy, i just dont see it when watching Moto2 races. He is on a team that is moving to Moto GP, he has superior funding, and he is talented. Is his bike better, probably, but not because of some conspiracy. What Marquez did yesterday is not unprecedented. I saw Blake Young go from last to first in one lap at Road Atlanta this year, on a inferior machine. Hayes took him out in the opening lap , the red flag was waved and he restarted dead last. He was in such a rage from being punted that he had one of those " red mist" moments. Actually, what Marquez did yesterday should earn him some fans. He didnt say .... it, i have a big lead, im going to settle for whatever position i happen to be in when the checkered flag flys. He is not nursing his championship lead like Lorenzo, {which by the way, i think is smart on Lorenzo's part}, he wants to win every race. Im not going crucify a guy for having a win at any cost attitude. Being fast is an attitude, winning is an attitude, the nuances of seeing a bigger picture come with experience. I dont have a problem with him going straight to the Repsol team either. It was a stupid rule to begin with, and the satellite teams themselves requested that he be allowed to go. None of them wanted to fire their crew, and ditch their sponsor, made perfect sense. I am not what you would consider a Marquez fan, i just accept the possibility that he is special. We will see in the next few years.

IF there is something funny going on, my bet is that they're using an illegal, high energy fuel.



If you can buy this stuff over the counter, there's no telling what MotoMarquez may be able to get their hands on...

New! U4.4™

If you’re not bound by fuel rules, this leaded fuel is the best choice for virtually any powersports application, offering the biggest gain vs. cost of any performance part you can buy. The latest generation of our U4-based fuels, U4.4 makes up to 6% more power than pump gas across a wider range of applications than its predecessors. It yields no sticky residue and is more resistant to heat. Designed as a direct, pour-in replacement for pump gas, it will require modest jetting changes, i.e., +2 main jets or +2 pilot jets at most.

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Surreptitiously swapping fuel cans sounds much easier than fiddling an entire engine.



Who's 'up' on the Moto2 fuel regs and how they are enforced? Krop?

stiefel said:

http://twitter.com/X...2473088/photo/1

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I am so tired of this whole marquez has a rocket bike .......every race the forum ends up in an argument about it. Here is one FACT. None of us know, or will ever for that matter if he is cheating etc. All we know is that he is talented and the results show for it.

There are good and bad engines I'm led to believe.

Some what confirmed this weekend when Brad Smith retired because "the engine was cutting out whilst leaning into the corners"

Unless someone has heard otherwise!?

Not had much tinternet time due to work to look into it more.

Kropo have you heard anything?

lil red rocket pilot said:

There are good and bad engines I'm led to believe.

Some what confirmed this weekend when Brad Smith retired because "the engine was cutting out whilst leaning into the corners"

Unless someone has heard otherwise!?

Not had much tinternet time due to work to look into it more.

Kropo have you heard anything?

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Kropo has stated time and time again, that Marquez is winning in spite of his bike, not because of it.

MA - your whole point seems to be:



Talented underdog = good

Talented overdog = bad



More a reflection of your personal philosophy and/or life experience rather than a comment on Marquez' abilities.

Sure, I have more respect for someone who comes up against the odds and without the advantages and wins than someone who has every advantage available plus some others not available to anyone else, who disrespects their fellow competitors by consistently putting their lives in danger, has the rules bent in order to facilitate their advancement which others didn't have the same option of and wins.



Not sure, should I be ashamed about that?

This link is supposed to be the entire first lap from Marquez bike camera. M working and can't view video as I only have an IPod.



http://blip.tv/rossifumi/marc-marquez-comes-back-at-motegi-6400300

It shows him passing 10 bikes on acceleration out of turn 1 before he gets to the braking point for turn 2. The speed disparity is not 2-5km/h but more like 10-20km/h. Later in the lap passes are made under brakes.



Did 10 riders not get drive out of turn 1?

MA - overcoming the expectations privilege can be as arduous as overcoming the difficulties of disadvantage.



I would guess that as many privileged sportsmen have crashed and burned before they have reached the pinnacle of their sport as have dedicated underdogs.

MA - I'd counter the reason he is passing bikes down the straight after turn 1, is because if his clearly better line selection. Im going off memory here, there where bikes on his inside, 2 or 3 one of which moved towards the centre if the track; from the left, Marquez backs off and repositions himself on the inside of this rider, then when hd clears this bike you see a number of bikes on marquez's left, the outside of the corner; he undertakes all these and gets a run on the next part of the group, these guys are all fighting for track position, Marquez fights smarter.

Mental Anarchist said:

It shows him passing 10 bikes on acceleration out of turn 1 before he gets to the braking point for turn 2. The speed disparity is not 2-5km/h but more like 10-20km/h. Later in the lap passes are made under brakes.



Did 10 riders not get drive out of turn 1?

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I have stated many times that i believe MM is the real deal and will win in Moto gp very quickly but like MA i believe his bike for what ever reason is significantly quicker on many occasions whether its fuel or electronic or mechanical i dont know but its there no doubt in my mind.

what i find interesting is how espargaro seemed to be just as quick as marquez as soon as its something else than "stop and go".

marquez is the real deal, no doubt about, as i have no doubt that the engines are surely the same. but that suter must have better traction,it just can't be talent alone if there is no way for espargaro(who i rate to be at least near to marquez) to maintain a closed gap on any corner exit. aerodynamics probably play a big part too in longer straights, the suter looks much narrow than the kalex.

i'd love to hear an assessment of a top level rider who is allowed to ride all the bikes after the season.ideally edwards

first lap onboard marquez. holy ........



http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xud5mo_marc-marquez-motegi-onboard-2012-lap-1_auto