James Toseland 2010 plans revealed Thur's. ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mat, I understand that you're saying Toes came in with a better resume hence a better seat. But because he didn't perform adequately to match the potential of that seat, he deserves a demotion? Is that right?It's not that he deserves a demotion as much as he deserves his seat less than the (presumed) rider/riders that he's competing with for it.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you think he might deserve a one year extension on the merits of being 'mid pack' (which is pretty much were good satellites seats settle these days)?Yes and no. Consideration, sure, but I can't just give an unqualified yes.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I see your point of reviewing the tail end riders (from my list) with sub par resumes getting tail end seats, so by your logic it would seem midpack seats should be occupied by midpack riders, right? Well this is pretty much where Toes is, at the tail end of a 'mid pack' that is only separated by 10 points! From 8th-13th, there is a 10-point difference.Once again, yes and no. It's a big problem when you get demolished by your teammate on a presumed rider-friendly bike. Also, especially now with the rookie rule, those seats are more for potential up and comers than guys who have been around for a couple of years and haven't shown consistency or recent promise. If you look at those 8-13 riders, most of them are missing rides right now, one's moving up to a better ride next season, and one is staying put (on a one-bike team not closely factory-associated) but looks to be getting a bike upgrade next season. That 8-13 range is one where a lot of riders are losing their rides.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think most of us look at Toes and have a knee-jerk reaction that he has been a miserable failure because his teammate has been better, but consider he is squarely midpack, and only 10 points separate him from: DeAngelis, Depuniet, Melandri, Vermeulen, and Elias.3 guys without rides and 2 guys getting better rides after impressing (and showing improvement) on not-great rides.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Toesland may be the victim of circumstance. As you correctly say, Spies, being a phenomenal prospect is waiting in the wing, Colin, having a much better year is poised to be Spies' mentor, at its Toes’ seat that must be occupied. Perfect storm.To a large extent, that's how things often go. There are more riders one could argue have a reasonable place in GPs than there are GP seats.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I still think Toes deserves another year (geez his only been in GP 2 seasons) the problem is not so much that he wore out his welcome, but rather that his seat has a prospect everybody is tripping over to have (and with good reason). Sucks for Toes, but like I said, he's the odd man out.He hasn't done what he needed to do to keep his seat, especially after all of the preseason shenenagins. Could he pick up a ride for someone like Pramac or the supposed new team? Probably, depending on his pay demands. Would he have been enticing to someone like a honda sat team had he bolted from yam earlier? If I was running a Honda team I might be more apt to sign one of the Ex-Gresini riders or a rookie. Sat moves between Yam/Honda don't make a lot of sense most of the time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Sep 30 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>“Yamaha have given Ben the option: if he wants to come, he can come, which means <span style="color:#FF0000we have no British rider in MotoGP. I would be bitterly disappointed at losing my job because I believe the challenge is still do-able.


results rule over passport.

token british rider gone.

i dont think spies would do much better. colin must feel great to be peaking 40 and still able to whipe his teammates... ahhahaha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Oct 2 2009, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i dont think spies would do much better.

I'll take that bet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What about Mexico?


What about Canepa? As nice as he is, does he really "deserve" to be in MotoGP? Takacrashi was an experiment that failed and should have never been in the big boy class either (he only served to fill the Hayden-torpedo quota). I agree that the best riders should surface to the elite and top class of the sport; that is, if it is to maintain its status as the "very best". However, I think Toesland has a better case to stay in the class than his mere nationality; unfortunately he's turned to his passport to make that argument. Toesland has had a string of respectable 6th place finishes last year and a few this year. He was promoted to the MotoGP class not on a minuscule number of top 10 finishes in lower classes like for example: Takahashi (jap), Gabor (hun), West (oz), Canepa (it), Guintoli (fra), Hofman (ger), etc. Toesland is twice world champion in WSBK, not an insignificant accomplishment. On this alone he deserves an extended look at MotoGP. His first season was better than this year, but keep in mind he also had some setbacks. I think he deserves at least one more year. And no, not because he's a Brit, but rather because he has accomplished something significant to get to this point.

Very Well Put...
I think a few people are bringing way to much personal touches/politics into it. Most of the time when policies favor you there is no question as to the validity. Soapbox ..stepping down..

Toseland should get another ride. I think his style and bike setup skills are what are his down fall. In my opinion, last year he benefited greatly from CEII's setup skills. His heavy handed approach to switching Chief mechanics shot himself in the foot. Colin has spent years in the GP's and he knows how to set up the bike with the best of them. Toseland will run with the lead guys in WSBK straight away.

CEII and Spies should mesh well without the ego bashing/clashing from Toseland/Edwards. I am changing my mind to think that Spies will run well as he is mentored by Edwards and learns to fine to the bike.

Toseland doesn't do himself any favors

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>but the R1 has proven to be beyond the strongest bikes in Superbike and I know many of the Yamaha World Superbike Team guys, so I'm going to pick up where I left off and give 100% to achieving good results with the team.

#1. He doesn't give credit where credit is due and that's Spies.
#2. He basically says Sykes can't ride.
#3. He has no excuse for next year.

Here's Toseland talking about the MotoGP and World Superbike situation, I think he makes some valid points:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...kes/8297845.stm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Oct 13 2009, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here's Toseland talking about the MotoGP and World Superbike situation, I think he makes some valid points:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...kes/8297845.stm
Even though he still wants to play the nationality card, i will agree with him on one huge point. RIDING FOR NOTHING IS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. No rider should EVER agree to ride for nothing. This is a professional sport and all a rider does when he agrees to ride for nothing is to stick a knife in the back of future riders who will be expected to do the same. Why in the .... would someone risk their life on some lousy underfunded bike so a team owner can take his cut of the pie and fulfill sponsor obligations. This a business venture,Dorna makes money,the teams are in it to make money,the technicians are in it to make money,yet somehow,the most important piece of the puzzle is supposed to perform for nothing.......... And screw all of that nonsense about how thats the way it is,sometimes you have to sacrifice to get your chance.That is called the minor leagues, this is professional sports and the very definition of a pro is that he gets payed.I have said it before and i will say it again, I am anti union,but these cats need some representation, DESPERATLY

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mat, I understand that you're saying Toes came in with a better resume hence a better seat. But because he didn't perform adequately to match the potential of that seat, he deserves a demotion? Is that right?

Do you think he might deserve a one year extension on the merits of being 'mid pack' (which is pretty much were good satellites seats settle these days)? I see your point of reviewing the tail end riders (from my list) with sub par resumes getting tail end seats, so by your logic it would seem midpack seats should be occupied by midpack riders, right? Well this is pretty much where Toes is, at the tail end of a 'mid pack' that is only separated by 10 points! From 8th-13th, there is a 10-point difference.

I think most of us look at Toes and have a knee-jerk reaction that he has been a miserable failure because his teammate has been better, but consider he is squarely midpack, and only 10 points separate him from: DeAngelis, Depuniet, Melandri, Vermeulen, and Elias.

I think Toesland may be the victim of circumstance. As you correctly say, Spies, being a phenomenal prospect is waiting in the wing, Colin, having a much better year is poised to be Spies' mentor, at its Toes’ seat that must be occupied. Perfect storm.

I still think Toes deserves another year (geez his only been in GP 2 seasons) the problem is not so much that he wore out his welcome, but rather that his seat has a prospect everybody is tripping over to have (and with good reason). Sucks for Toes, but like I said, he's the odd man out.

It may be as someone said in another thread that the sponsors are tighter for money and less patient with the rookie learning curve; everybody wants another Spies or Rossi - or another Hayden even. Nicky's first year didn't start out looking all that auspicious but by mid-season he was regularly in 5th and 6th place and one 4th and two podiums toward the end of the year. These are the results the big teams are looking for. Even moreso, Lorenzo, has upped the standard for riders in their first two seasons.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Oct 1 2009, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>was expected now can JT jump on the yam and be a front runner at every race

That'll be the test, wont it? Can Toesland come close to Spies' results on a
Yamaha? Or will he be chumming around with his teammate back in the
middle of nowhere?

After his remarks about the potential for Yamaha to look bad if Spies is
not significantly more competitive than Edwards . . . and a few other
choice statements, I'd say that public relations-wise, Toes is his own
worst enemy. He's been given a top seat with Yamaha in WSBK and
he's taking digs at the boss. He just doesn't know when to keep his
mouth shut. When the Texan beat the pants off Toesland's rookie
year results, the Brit's words will come back to haunt him.

I have such a great image of Toes with egg on his face - but alas, no upload.