James Toseland 2010 plans revealed Thur's. ?

yeah i think spies has had so many people telling him go to gp as soon as possible.... don't wait! you can always come back to sbk for the title if you need too after your gp carreer. he's decided to come sbk title or no.

but why would tech 3 want a fully american team? I asked my dad this too, isnt is wiser to boot CE out, move BS in, and keep JT till we have Bradley. thought dorna wanted more nationalities to enter the race??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Sep 30 2009, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but why would tech 3 want a fully american team? I asked my dad this too, isnt is wiser to boot CE out, move BS in, and keep JT till we have Bradley. thought dorna wanted more nationalities to enter the race??
herve likes texans...........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Sep 30 2009, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but why would tech 3 want a fully american team? I asked my dad this too, isnt is wiser to boot CE out, move BS in, and keep JT till we have Bradley. thought dorna wanted more nationalities to enter the race??
Why not? Suzuki did it for a few seasons with Hopper and Roberts.

While I'd love to see JT there next year, I have to say Colin deserves it more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Sep 30 2009, 06:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but why would tech 3 want a fully american team? I asked my dad this too, isnt is wiser to boot CE out, move BS in, and keep JT till we have Bradley. thought dorna wanted more nationalities to enter the race??

I think that sadly Toesland's performance has been increasingly harder to justify keeping him. This and they knew that Collin will probably play a good mentor's role with Spies. I think they see Spies as a very good rider and want to develop him into a great MotoGP rider. So Toes is the odd man out.

Plus I think the team principle does NOT like Toes. (This actually may be half the reason he's gone).

This is the part that i hate about the politics of bike racing.Your passport should NEVER be a factor to being in GP. With this quote, Toseland still is trying to justify his place because of his nationality

“Yamaha have given Ben the option: if he wants to come, he can come, which means we have no British rider in MotoGP.

It was just a couple of months ago that Toseland flat out stated that if Spies comes to GP, it would be Colin who got the axe because of his { Toselands} status as the only British rider.I know its how things work, but it doesnt make it right. Im just glad someone had the balls to go against the status quo of GP hiring and firing. I have always believed the best man should get the job regardless of ridiculous national or racial quotas. I dont give a .... if every rider on the grid is from Africa,Spain, Italy, US, etc,. Im all for having tryouts, and let the best man win. Thats how it is done in most pro sports,they dont give a .... where your from, as long as you can play.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 30 2009, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the part that i hate about the politics of bike racing.Your passport should NEVER be a factor to being in GP. With this quote, Toseland still is trying to justify his place because of his nationality

“Yamaha have given Ben the option: if he wants to come, he can come, which means we have no British rider in MotoGP.

It was just a couple of months ago that Toseland flat out stated that if Spies comes to GP, it would be Colin who got the axe because of his { Toselands} status as the only British rider.I know its how things work, but it doesnt make it right. Im just glad someone had the balls to go against the status quo of GP hiring and firing. I have always believed the best man should get the job regardless of ridiculous national or racial quotas. I dont give a .... if every rider on the grid is from Africa,Spain, Italy, US, etc,. Im all for having tryouts, and let the best man win. Thats how it is done in most pro sports,they dont give a .... where your from, as long as you can play.

Absolutely Povol,Quality not Nation.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 30 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the part that i hate about the politics of bike racing.Your passport should NEVER be a factor to being in GP. With this quote, Toseland still is trying to justify his place because of his nationality

“Yamaha have given Ben the option: if he wants to come, he can come, which means we have no British rider in MotoGP.

It was just a couple of months ago that Toseland flat out stated that if Spies comes to GP, it would be Colin who got the axe because of his { Toselands} status as the only British rider.I know its how things work, but it doesnt make it right. Im just glad someone had the balls to go against the status quo of GP hiring and firing. I have always believed the best man should get the job regardless of ridiculous national or racial quotas. I dont give a .... if every rider on the grid is from Africa,Spain, Italy, US, etc,. Im all for having tryouts, and let the best man win. Thats how it is done in most pro sports,they dont give a .... where your from, as long as you can play.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRILL @ Sep 30 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Absolutely Povol,Quality not Nation.

yeah well Im all pro to let the best rider race, but thats not how it works. Dorna needs/wants money. our country would invest more in motorsport if we had a chance of having a rider in a class. attendence at tracks grow+ they get more fans = more money if more countries have a nationalrider. I read in a dutch mag that attenders in doni were more than before toseland was there. how many hungarians attended brno cause of Gabor? it for sure works like this with the dutch too, motorsport gets more likeable when you can cheer for a fellow country guy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Sep 30 2009, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont give a .... if every rider on the grid is from Africa,Spain, Italy, US, etc,.
What about Mexico?


What about Canepa? As nice as he is, does he really "deserve" to be in MotoGP? Takacrashi was an experiment that failed and should have never been in the big boy class either (he only served to fill the Hayden-torpedo quota). I agree that the best riders should surface to the elite and top class of the sport; that is, if it is to maintain its status as the "very best". However, I think Toesland has a better case to stay in the class than his mere nationality; unfortunately he's turned to his passport to make that argument. Toesland has had a string of respectable 6th place finishes last year and a few this year. He was promoted to the MotoGP class not on a minuscule number of top 10 finishes in lower classes like for example: Takahashi (jap), Gabor (hun), West (oz), Canepa (it), Guintoli (fra), Hofman (ger), etc. Toesland is twice world champion in WSBK, not an insignificant accomplishment. On this alone he deserves an extended look at MotoGP. His first season was better than this year, but keep in mind he also had some setbacks. I think he deserves at least one more year. And no, not because he's a Brit, but rather because he has accomplished something significant to get to this point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 08:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Toesland is twice world champion in WSBK, not an insignificant accomplishment. On this alone he deserves an extended look at MotoGP. His first season was better than this year, but keep in mind he also had some setbacks. I think he deserves at least one more year. And no, not because he's a Brit, but rather because he has accomplished something significant to get to this point.

What I always try to picture, is how well the rider in question would perform on Fiat Yamaha or a Repsol Honda. I hate to say, that I couldn't see James faring much better on Jorge or Vales bike, and I certainly couldn't picture him on the Repsol Honda, whereas In the case of rival Chris Vermeulen, I actually could - (albeit with varying degrees of success, which wouldn't be sufficient to keep his seat anyway).

James had given his all, 100% - another reason that he should concentrate on proddy over prototype...it wasn't enough. Perhaps it's time to return to what he does best, and aim for two more championships in WSBk, to equal Foggy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He was promoted to the MotoGP class not on a minuscule number of top 10 finishes in lower classes like for example: Takahashi (jap), Gabor (hun), West (oz), Canepa (it), Guintoli (fra), Hofman (ger), etc. Toesland is twice world champion in WSBK, not an insignificant accomplishment.
Some of those examples are kinda sketchy. Let's go through a few:

Guintoli: came in on Dunlops, on the sort of bike reserved for 1) over the hill vets desperate to be in GP and 2) rookies without a resume good enough to worry about tarnishing it. He did well enough to earn his second year on the sat duc.

West: Came in midseason on a Kwak. What decently accomplished rider is likely available in midseason to take a ride on a pig? Showed enough in half-year one to earn a second year on the kwak.

Hoffmann came up on the Kwak via. the test rider position (after a couple of decent-scoring wild cards in a jobless season) too, and then went to the sat duc.

Canepa came up with a sat duc ride after a test riding year.

All of the above rode for either kwak, satellite duc, and/or on Dunlops. Those are not the rides sought out by accomplished riders - they're dead ends that good riders avoid. Riders with decent resumes have a tendancy to hang out in 250s or WSBK until they can get a "real" seat (or learn to wish they did). The risk associated with breaking in with such teams means that the best-qualified riders are unlikely to want to enter the series with such a seat.

Gabor was money, plain and simple. Broke team needed cash, and their existing rider sucked. Being Hungarian is nice and all, but I think the driving forces there may have been shorter-term. Tak was pure token jap.

All of those riders have/had a lesser resume than Toesland. All came in on far inferior rides. Maybe Toesland could be justified for another year in the series, but numbers dictate it'd be on a lesser ride at this point. He got the ride he wanted, but didn't make enough of it. If Spies wasn't setting the world on fire and his teammate wasn't thrashing him on the track, I'd say give him another season, but that's not the case. Other than Hayate switching to yam power and signing him or going with a second-tier team, he's out of motogp options.

Does anyone think that Toesland has the potential to ride in the top five consistently? I don't. Back to WSBK...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Sep 30 2009, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All of those riders have/had a lesser resume than Toesland. All came in on far inferior rides. Maybe Toesland could be justified for another year in the series, but numbers dictate it'd be on a lesser ride at this point. He got the ride he wanted, but didn't make enough of it. If Spies wasn't setting the world on fire and his teammate wasn't thrashing him on the track, I'd say give him another season, but that's not the case. Other than Hayate switching to yam power and signing him or going with a second-tier team, he's out of motogp options.

Mat, I understand that you're saying Toes came in with a better resume hence a better seat. But because he didn't perform adequately to match the potential of that seat, he deserves a demotion? Is that right?

Do you think he might deserve a one year extension on the merits of being 'mid pack' (which is pretty much were good satellites seats settle these days)? I see your point of reviewing the tail end riders (from my list) with sub par resumes getting tail end seats, so by your logic it would seem midpack seats should be occupied by midpack riders, right? Well this is pretty much where Toes is, at the tail end of a 'mid pack' that is only separated by 10 points! From 8th-13th, there is a 10-point difference.

I think most of us look at Toes and have a knee-jerk reaction that he has been a miserable failure because his teammate has been better, but consider he is squarely midpack, and only 10 points separate him from: DeAngelis, Depuniet, Melandri, Vermeulen, and Elias.

I think Toesland may be the victim of circumstance. As you correctly say, Spies, being a phenomenal prospect is waiting in the wing, Colin, having a much better year is poised to be Spies' mentor, at its Toes’ seat that must be occupied. Perfect storm.

I still think Toes deserves another year (geez his only been in GP 2 seasons) the problem is not so much that he wore out his welcome, but rather that his seat has a prospect everybody is tripping over to have (and with good reason). Sucks for Toes, but like I said, he's the odd man out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Sep 30 2009, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does anyone think that Toesland has the potential to ride in the top five consistently? I don't. Back to WSBK...

So by your logic, send back riders in positions 5-18 to WSBK?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 30 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So by your logic, send back riders in positions 5-18 to WSBK?

Official - Cal and JT for WSB, Spies to MotoGP.

http://www.crash.net/world+superbikes/news...yamaha_wsb.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"You know," Edwards says, "James just made some demands to get things the way he wanted them. And nothing came from it. It never improved. They gave him everything he wanted and when that happens you have to perform. And he didn't. That's the reality."link

Go rub salt on the wounds, why dontcha, Colin?

Gutted for JT. But oh well, at least he'll be competitive again in WSBKs.