Is this era one of the greats?

Holy .... what a battle royal up in this ...... Now I see a lot more of the hatred for pinky. And tom jesus, "Wayne Rainey is the only man in a wheelchair to ever even attempt living life"??? Are you ....... kidding me? Time for you to get your google hand ready google, murderball, paraplegic skiing, para motocross(an xgames event), I could go on and on. If anything you are ... backwards in the fact that they attempt living life every minute of everyday. As someone who is in their tenth year of following the sport we all love, I really was looking forward to reading this thread to learn more about the history of motogp. So if any of the O. G.p's want to restart this one up, I am all ears.....for once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrOwvNnTeD4
I am glad not everyone I know shares your optamism.

"yes"

when rossi is gone, the best is gone. there will be other champions and there were other champions.

the question is:

if people really get the feeling that any of the riders of the next generation (after the "GOAT" LOL) WOULD be able to have beaten rossi if hed still ride!

in my opinion its what is going on in F1 these days! if schumacher still would ride: he would have been able to develop a car that is fast enough for the brawns and would have beat button! that MY FEELING about it!

and i think there will be a lot of people who will have this feeling when rossi is gone! the question "if he would be here...would he be faster?"...many people will answer this with "yes".

so i think this IS one of the greatest aeras ever.

imagine lorenzo never beats rossi....then let lorenzo beat spies e.g. (if he is the ....!) => what is that worth???

we'll see...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Oct 21 2009, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jumkie, if you re read your post would you still post it as is today?
Well TP, first of all, thanks for bring back a few memories. (It was nice to see Pinky and thespian Tom getting racked over, as they deserve.)

I reread my post, and I think it still stands as far as my personal opinion goes; except I would have driven the point further that the "Golden Era" of GP is the clear "greatest" time of the sport. I noticed you asked is this "one of the greatest", the answer is yes, but I think most (including me) took the liberty in responding to the question "which was/is the greatest".

Rereading Arrabbi's post, and a few others, I think they nailed it when they cited the problems with the 800 formula. Also, we are talking now about three clear rivals, were as the "Golden Era" saw 5-8+ rivals that could win any given race. Is that true today? Unless something crazy happens, can you see anybody outside of the Rossi, Lorenzo, Peders, or Stoner winning a race straight up? This was true with the 990s at least; but not now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 4 2009, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barrymachine, you're missing an important phenomenon.

During the 500cc era, the bikes didn't outperform what people could live through.

In the first full year of MotoGP 4-stroke racing there was a death on track. Obviously, I think the venue played a major role, but the MSMA, IRTA, and FIM quickly realized that 4 stroke development was quickly going to end up producing speeds/crashes that human beings couldn't live through.

The 800cc formula has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that motorcycles will quickly develop if restrictions are not placed on performance. The displacement reduction, fuel reduction, and increased weight failed miserably to control the bikes. Only the control tire has proven effective.

Displacement rules are outdated. DORNA/FIM/MSMA/IRTA can either go through some tough times pioneering new solutions, or they can continue banning/controlling everything while delivering a miserable racing product.

On topic: I think this is one of the most talented grids we've seen in a long time, but I can't help but think how epic it would be if they were all riding 990s. Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Hayden, Stoner, Melandri, Rossi, Capirossi, Dovi .................... with the new satellite rules about 20 people would have the equipment to win or at least get on the box.

That one rider died the first year of 4-stroke era is not really so significant. There were simply too many other factors to be considered. That there should be a rider death once every few decades is a high mathematical probability and that it happened that year is no more than a sad coincidence. I don't think you could find a rider out there who wouldn't agree that riding the 500s was a much wilder and woolier experience and that the incidents of injuries (and the extent of them as well) sustained were much greater. There was a great deal more in the way of violent, unpredictable hi-sides resulting in "tumble" injuries on the 500s. Nowadays - if statistics were available - I'd wage that you'd find that many more of the crashes are lowsides that riders walk away from - only to return uninjured for the next practice or race, and that more riders in the 500 era were riding while bearing up under worse injuries.

See below for list of deaths in MGP (Isle of Man deaths don't count as that place is
and has been always, a suicide circuit)

1949 Ben Drinkwater (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1950 David Whitworth (GBR) GP Spa Francorchamps
1951 Dario Ambrosini (ITA) GP Albi
1951 Gianni Leoni (ITA) Ulster GP
1951 Sante Geminiani (ITA) Ulster GP
1952 Dave Bennett (GBR) GP Bern
1953 Leslie Graham (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1954 Rupert Hollaus (AUT) GP Monza Practice
1954 Dennis Lashmar (GBR) GP Solitude
1956 Derek Ennett (GBR) Ulster GP
1957 Charlie Salt (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1957 Roberto Colombo (ITA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1960 Bob Brown (AUS) GP Solitude
1960 Peter Febrache (GBR) GP Assen
1961 Ron Miles (AUS) GP Dundrod
1963 Marcellin Herranz (FRA) GP Charade
1964 Vernon Cottle (GBR) GP Imatra
1965 Ramón Torras (SPA) GP Barcelona
1969 Bill Ivy (GBR) GP Sachsenring[13]
1969 Robin Fitton (GBR) GP Nürburgring
1971 Christian Ravel (FRA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1971 Angelo Bergamonti (ITA) GP Riccione
1971 Günter Bartusch (GDR) GP Sachsenring
1973 Renzo Pasolini (ITA) GP Monza
1973 Jarno Saarinen (FIN) GP Monza
1974 Billie Nelson (GBR) GP Opatija
1975 Rolf Thiele (BRD) GP Assen
1976 Otello Buscherini (ITA) GP Mugello
1976 Paolo Tordi (ITA) GP Mugello
1977 Ulrich Graf (SUI) GP Opatija
1977 Giovanni Zigiotto (ITA) GP Opatija
1977 Hans Stadelmann (SUI) GP Salzburgring
1977 Piers Forester (GBR) Brands Hatch Powerbike International
1980 Patrick Pons (FRA) GP Silverstone
1981 Michel Rougerie (FRA) GP Yugoslavia
1981 Sauro Pazzaglia (ITA) GP Imola
1981 Alain Beraud (FRA) GP Brno
1983 Michel Frutschi (SUI) GP Le Mans
1983 Rolf Rüttimann (SUI) GP Rijeka
1983 Norman Brown (NIR) GP Silverstone
1983 Peter Huber (SUI) GP Silverstone
1984 Kevin Wrettom (ENG) GP Spa-Francorchamps
1989 Iván Palazzese (VEN) GP Hockenheim
1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz
2003 Daijiro Kato (JPN) GP Suzuka

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 22 2009, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That one rider died the first year of 4-stroke era is not really so significant.

It actually wasn't the first year of the 4-stroke era. Also i'd contend that the last generations of 500 were actually fairly user friendly and not as viscious as the typical reputation suggests

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 22 2009, 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It actually wasn't the first year of the 4-stroke era. Also i'd contend that the last generations of 500 were actually fairly user friendly and not as viscious as the typical reputation suggests

On what would you base such a statement? Every rider who
who rode those bikes would disagree with you. Unless you
can come up with an interview with an ex 500 rider supporting
your statement - don't even bother to reply. It's too absurd.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 22 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Also i'd contend that the last generations of 500 were actually fairly user friendly and not as viscious as the typical reputation suggests
oh your kidding..................... right? you can contend all you want... your just gonna get laughed at tom.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 22 2009, 05:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It actually wasn't the first year of the 4-stroke era. Also i'd contend that the last generations of 500 were actually fairly <span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%user friendly and not as viscious as the typical reputation suggests
My turn...



<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"user friendly"??? Dude, my Mac is "user friendly", twist off bottle caps are "user friendly", my PDA is "user friendly", the phonebook is "user friendly, google maps are "user friendly"...

500 two-stroke GP prototype motorcycles NOT USER FRIENDLY!

Oh Lord. C'mon Tom, you make it too easy to make fun of your statements. Can somebody here remind Tom what Rossi said when he first experienced the 500s? It was in the movie Faster. Perhaps his very succinct and colorful description could help Tom understand just how "user friendly" the 500s were. And correct me if I'm wrong, but Rossi was talking about the "last generations of 500s" right?

Perhaps the 500s were "overrated" too? Hahaha.

Tom=EPIC FAIL



EDIT: Here you go Tom. Perhaps these guys had it wrong and you are right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Valentino Rossi: At the beginning when you try the first time the 500, Ahh ....!

Valentino Rossi: The 500 is another world. The bike come from another world.

Wayne Rainey: As a racer you always have that at the back of your mind. That you always wonder when's it gonna happen. Cause it will happen, you know you will fall off.

Julian Ryder: Anybody who could ride a 500cc GP motorcycle well enough to qualify on Grand Prix grid is a hero, Anybody! because these things are the most evil devices if your treat them wrong they will bite.

Trevor Morris: There's no word to explain the acceleration.

Dr. Claudio Costa: It is incredible what a rider filled with irrational desire can achieve.

Quotes from Faster, the movie.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 22 2009, 01:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It actually wasn't the first year of the 4-stroke era. Also i'd contend that the last generations of 500 were actually fairly user friendly and not as viscious as the typical reputation suggests



Tom your nothing but an attetion whore.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DRILL @ May 6 2009, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anyone for clean burn 500cc two strokes ?

What about 700cc two strokes? How does that sound?








Bloody hell, I had to sell my old CBRF4 600cc… But I just got this 700cc two stroke bike with no wheels…





Tomorrow I am getting it for the first time in the water!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(Tom @ Oct 22 2009, 01:44 PM)
It actually wasn't the first year of the 4-stroke era. Also i'd contend that the last generations of 500 were actually fairly user friendly and not as viscious as the typical reputation suggests
is this just another one of your "alternative opinions" for the good of the debate tom ?

Try telling people like Jeremy Mcwilliams and Gary McCoy these were user friendly.

How old were you in the last year of 500's tom ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Oct 23 2009, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>is this just another one of your "alternative opinions" for the good of the debate tom ?

Try telling people like Jeremy Mcwilliams and Gary McCoy these were user friendly.

How old were you in the last year of 500's tom ?

500s "fairly user friendly" ...what a ....... ....!




back on topic:.. NO. 800s suck taint.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Oct 23 2009, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>is this just another one of your "alternative opinions" for the good of the debate tom ?

Try telling people like Jeremy Mcwilliams and Gary McCoy these were user friendly.

How old were you in the last year of 500's tom ?

What about the ‘burning cube’… now that was friendly, ask Edwards. Although it is out of topic because it was 990. Anyway, was definitely not friendly either!

As a fan I definitely think this is the "Golden Era". I remember when I had to look in a magazine to get the results of the races two months after they happened. Now I can watch every qualifying session and race live and see the timing for every rider on the track. I've got two computers tied up every race and qualifying to was the video and the timing screen. No longer do we have to miss a good pass (or almost half the race) when it is time for a commercial or wait until the next afternoon or next week to see the race. It's a good time to be a racing fan of motogp. The video footage keeps getting better, with more cameras to capture the racing as it happens.

Grady

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dunhamg @ Oct 23 2009, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As a fan I definitely think this is the "Golden Era". I remember when I had to look in a magazine to get the results of the races two months after they happened. Now I can watch every qualifying session and race live and see the timing for every rider on the track. I've got two computers tied up every race and qualifying to was the video and the timing screen. No longer do we have to miss a good pass (or almost half the race) when it is time for a commercial or wait until the next afternoon or next week to see the race. It's a good time to be a racing fan of motogp. The video footage keeps getting better, with more cameras to capture the racing as it happens.

Grady

Amazing… Finally something good said about Duhrna! We have to recognize this surely… I never thought I would say it, but thank you Dorna for the Video footage! Just make it free and millions more will see the Sponsors all over the place!

As Jumkie said, this era is for sure ONE OF the greatest, can't understand why 48% (by now) voted no. Then, is it THE greatest era? Here one can say yes or no (maybe most intended the question this way). Maybe it's just love/obsession for vintage and past times, I bet when Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Melandri, Capirossi and Hayden will retire we'll look back at these years in a different way. 'Julian Simon vs Bradley Smith? My son, you should have watched Rossi and Stoner battles back then in the golden 2000s!!'

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 23 2009, 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My turn...



<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"user friendly"??? Dude, my Mac is "user friendly", twist off bottle caps are "user friendly", my PDA is "user friendly", the phonebook is "user friendly, google maps are "user friendly"...

500 two-stroke GP prototype motorcycles NOT USER FRIENDLY!

Excellent

Tom, just as the 990 and the current 800 desmo two seater are using a 'tamer' mapping, similarly, the two seater YZR500 ridden by Randy in 2001 was detuned, but could still rear up and bite the unwary on the .... In fact I remember Randy saying that having retired from racing, (although he was still occasionally racing in the boxer cup for fun), he shouldn't have been even let near a prototype 500cc two stroke. He jokingly said that although he was sorry to see the two strokes go, he breathed a huge sigh of relief when he no longer had to give pillion rides on one, because like a serviceman having flashbacks to the battlefield, he still woke up in a cold sweat some nights when he found himself back on the grid astride a menacing NSR on a circuit like Spa. He said when riding the YZR500 twin seater, it still had the capability to regularly scare the .... out of him.

But then what would he know Tom?

Congratulations on your dumbest opinion since last summers death of the white tiger thread.

Question; did you ever spectate at a 500cc gp?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 22 2009, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What about 700cc two strokes? How does that sound?








Bloody hell, I had to sell my old CBRF4 600cc… But I just got this 700cc two stroke bike with no wheels…





Tomorrow I am getting it for the first time in the water!!!


How fast does that thing go? Too bad it's not a Honda. I've yet to ride one.... but I see that they have a sit-down jetski and a stand-up one, which is better and why? I believe the stand-up ones are way cheaper.

Isn't the Kawa standup an 800?

Nothing beats standups in the surf.

Shame they went away from making many standups ..

but I noticed the other day Benelli is doing a V6 2.2L with 342hp ( sit down jobby )

Mate rang them and they wanted AU$60,000!!!! ....... 255hp sea doo will do for a bit longer I think

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Oct 24 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How fast does that thing go?

On the lagoon, early morning flat water surface easily 70 miles per hour. On the ocean depends on few more factors. The truth I still would not know because I still am settling the engine!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Oct 24 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Too bad it's not a Honda.

In this case I think Yamaha makes the best (hope its true).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Oct 24 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've yet to ride one.... but I see that they have a sit-down jetski and a stand-up one, which is better and why?

Sit-down = Waverunner. Stand-up = Jetski. The difference is like driving a Minivan and riding an 1100cc street bike!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Oct 24 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe the stand-up ones are way cheaper.

Yeap, they are cheaper… You do not get all the Minivan accessories like a couch, tv+dvd, cruise control, etc.

It is a bloody bike without the suspension, wheels, dashboard or anything and weights 132Kg!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 24 2009, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Isn't the Kawa standup an 800?

Nope… 701cc.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/waverunner/pro...39/1/specs.aspx

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 24 2009, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nothing beats standups in the surf.

Shame they went away from making many standups ..

but I noticed the other day Benelli is doing a V6 2.2L with 342hp ( sit down jobby )

Mate rang them and they wanted AU$60,000!!!! ....... 255hp sea doo will do for a bit longer I think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF72WI5y0Dc...PL&index=19