Is this era one of the greats?

Just spent the weekend riding a 255hp supercharged Seadoo thru the bar at Noosa. Bloody awesome. The thing has some grunt and it jumps like a muthaf'r. It can also throw you a long way if it digs in when you are hard on it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 25 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On the lagoon, early morning flat water surface easily 70 miles per hour. On the ocean depends on few more factors. The truth I still would not know because I still am settling the engine!

Bro in law leaves his ski's at my place at times, he left a pretty modded 750 some years ago. The lake near us was like glass one day so I thought "I wonder if I could barefoot it" ..... feet each side of the gunwahls and stood up. It worked!! ( didn't try i long cos a "dig in" would have been smashing skull on the footboard on the way off ) that thing moved but gee a glassy smooth surface is something else on them




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 25 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope… 701cc.

Well Bro in law lent me this one few months ago

http://www.kawasaki.com.au/index.php?categ...=specifications

He is getting old too now and had it up for sale ( going to just use sit ons now ). If he has trouble getting a sale for it I will end up with it for a few months again Its just stock but its pretty good.

Funny thing is my favorite was always the old 650, there was something about the maneuverability of them that just made them great in the surf. Had fuel enough to go out to reefs, surf for a bit, then get back in too. Oh and nothing since that has duck dived as well, they were very "pointy" shaped.


Edit: Just remembered another reason I lked the 650 .... it didn't have a lanyard. The lanyard was bad in rough surf cos they tended to come out just when you needed an engine going the most
If you fell off it just went to idle and circled till you climbed back on. The trick was you didn't ever swin after it but swam in a circle the other way and met it faster then. But one day at the reef I came off so I immediately began to swim the other way ( very deep water at the edge of an underwater cliff, bound to be sharks ), I looked toward the ski and noticed it wasn't circling like it should have ( the steering must have got stuck and it was just cruising away into the distance) so I swam for the reef ( better to be over 3 metres of sucky pumelling sea than 100m of shark depths ) just at about the reef I saw the ski get rolled by a wave then when it came up it had begun to circle .... Phew!! .... I swam for it ( about a football field away ) faster than Michael Phelps .... cos all I could hear was the Jaws music

I never stopped to look but my brain had me thinking there was huge a shark coming at me up out of the depths, I just got on and gunned it as soon as I got my hand on the lever, dragged myself back on as it was already skimming .... never looked back all the way back to the beach and decided never to ski alone offshore again.

Actually the 650 was a triple too I don't know why they have gone to twins lately? But I think they are torquier and can drive a bigger jet I guess.

Now I like lanyards too

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bro in law leaves his ski's at my place at times, he left a pretty modded 750 some years ago. The lake near us was like glass one day so I thought "I wonder if I could barefoot it" ..... feet each side of the gunwahls and stood up. It worked!! ( didn't try i long cos a "dig in" would have been smashing skull on the footboard on the way off ) that thing moved but gee a glassy smooth surface is something else on them

Well Bro in law lent me this one few months ago

http://www.kawasaki.com.au/index.php?categ...=specifications

He is getting old too now and had it up for sale ( going to just use sit ons now ). If he has trouble getting a sale for it I will end up with it for a few months again Its just stock but its pretty good.

Funny thing is my favorite was always the old 650, there was something about the maneuverability of them that just made them great in the surf. Had fuel enough to go out to reefs, surf for a bit, then get back in too. Oh and nothing since that has duck dived as well, they were very "pointy" shaped.

Edit: Just remembered another reason I lked the 650 .... it didn't have a lanyard. The lanyard was bad in rough surf cos they tended to come out just when you needed an engine going the most
If you fell off it just went to idle and circled till you climbed back on. The trick was you didn't ever swin after it but swam in a circle the other way and met it faster then. But one day at the reef I came off so I immediately began to swim the other way ( very deep water at the edge of an underwater cliff, bound to be sharks ), I looked toward the ski and noticed it wasn't circling like it should have ( the steering must have got stuck and it was just cruising away into the distance) so I swam for the reef ( better to be over 3 metres of sucky pumelling sea than 100m of shark depths ) just at about the reef I saw the ski get rolled by a wave then when it came up it had begun to circle .... Phew!! .... I swam for it ( about a football field away ) faster than Michael Phelps .... cos all I could hear was the Jaws music

I never stopped to look but my brain had me thinking there was huge a shark coming at me up out of the depths, I just got on and gunned it as soon as I got my hand on the lever, dragged myself back on as it was already skimming .... never looked back all the way back to the beach and decided never to ski alone offshore again.

Actually the 650 was a triple too I don't know why they have gone to twins lately? But I think they are torquier and can drive a bigger jet I guess.

Now I like lanyards too

Wow, what a story Barry! How cool that sharks were too slow for your fastest swim. And those deep waters must be amazing, but you really have to be careful and accompanied always in those conditions. Where I have mine, the ocean is barely deep enough (I say it goes from 1 to 10 meter so no really space for 'Big' mean fish), in some beaches nearby you can almost walk a hole Km perpendicular to the shore. The worst part is that there are no real waves, still hope to get my Jetski to a couple of beaches that do have little waves.

Me, I am kind of newcomer to this sport really, I used to rent them for exercise, bike riding down to a marina that still had Jetskis (Stand-ups). So the first thing is to settle the engine and to get some condition at riding it, later the tricks will come hopefully!

I hope you get to have several months of fun before it goes! (Of course… Your summer is almost starting down under!).

For your first few jumps on waves ....... step off the side. the landing is hard.

Sadly the best waves, for ski's, are in fairly deep water places. And they kinda keep you away from surf beaches here with a ski. Not very fair to board riders really too I suppose

The sharks in the above episode didn't materialize luckily they were what I imagined in my panic

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For your first few jumps on waves ....... step off the side. the landing is hard.

Ok... taken note, thanks!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sadly the best waves, for ski's, are in fairly deep water places. And they kinda keep you away from surf beaches here with a ski. Not very fair to board riders really too I suppose

I guess you are more of a surfer culture. Still, Jetskis and Waverunner take you to more cool places too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The sharks in the above episode didn't materialize luckily they were what I imagined in my panic

I supposed so... or it was just them saying: "Too hard of a bone to roar on!" (Just joking hermano!)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 22 2009, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On what would you base such a statement?

Well, think about it. The fearsome reputation given to the 500's is generally given by fans from the golden era of the late 80's and early 90's and is heavily romanticised (as most fond memories are). That is totally understandable. I contend that the last generation of 500's fell far from this. Relatively speaking the engines where tuned to be more rideable, had electronic traction control systems, unleaded fuel and most importantly they had very suitable chassis and tyre technology.

I don't think that the 990's were more viscious than the 500's, but if you compared like for like (say bikes from 02) then you'd find riders like Biaggi looking like they were having as much trouble muscling their four strokes around the track as the Honda pons duo on their well setup and familiar 2-strokes. Go one year on and we all know what happened to Kato.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 25 2009, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think that the 990's were more viscious than the 500's, but if you compared like for like (say bikes from 02) then you'd find riders like Biaggi looking like they were having as much trouble muscling their four strokes around the track as the Honda pons duo on their well setup and familiar 2-strokes. Go one year on and we all know what happened to Kato.
But Tom, the people that rode them both do.

Physically handling a 990 is a different argument to managing and controlling the lightswitch like power band of a 500cc gp bike. Of course the 500's ferocity was tamed towards the end of their tenure, but they were still a ..... to ride - as EVERY RIDER WHO HAS RACED BOTH WILL TESTIFY. Rossi, Barros, Capi, Hopper, Checa, Sete, Haga, Jezza, Van De Goorberg, Kenny Jnr etc etc, they all say the same.......Tom disagrees with them.

We are talking engine characteristics here. Torque on tap made the big 990's far more amenable than the 500's, it doesn't hold that everyone adapted to them. The jockey like two stroke school definitely had problems muscling the big diesels around, and coping under braking. Pedders was the exception to this, and was phenomenal from the off, Daijiro, ominously never looked comfortable. Other riders such as Abe were never able to convincingly make the switch.

If only you were as familiar with engine characteristics Tom, as opposed to search engine characteristics, of which you are an undisputed authority.

I believe it is.

Didn't Criville ride his old GP bike as a demo last year somewhere? After which he said he had a few moments which reminded him how viscious the bike was.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 25 2009, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as EVERY RIDER WHO HAS RACED BOTH WILL TESTIFY. Rossi, Barros, Capi, Hopper, Checa, Sete, Haga, Jezza, Van De Goorberg, Kenny Jnr etc etc, they all say the same.......Tom disagrees with them.

It's Van den Goorbergh, second time you've got it wrong

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (heyhuub @ Oct 25 2009, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Didn't Criville ride his old GP bike as a demo last year somewhere? After which he said he had a few moments which reminded him how viscious the bike was.




It's Van den Goorbergh, second time you've got it wrong
It's vicious btw. but since your Dutch I won't argue with either

Actually, on reflection, I'm not sure Jurgen rode a 990, because he was still on the KR two stroke when the 990's were introduced. I'm sure I remember him commenting on both in an interview - perhaps he wild carded in a 990 GP somewhere.

Point well made, and I think it was at Catalunya the other year. I wonder what collection that was plucked from - most of them were consigned to the HRC crusher. As I recall it was his championship winning NSR which is why it avoided the skip!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 25 2009, 07:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's vicious btw. but since your Dutch I won't argue with either

Actually, on reflection, I'm not sure Jurgen rode a 990, because he was still on the KR two stroke when the 990's were introduced. I'm sure I remember him commenting on both in an interview - perhaps he wild carded in a 990 GP somewhere.

Point well made, and I think it was at Catalunya the other year. I wonder what collection that was plucked from - most of them were consigned to the HRC crusher. As I recall it was his championship winning NSR which is why it avoided the skip!

haha, fair enough It's you're btw

Jurgen's last full season was 2002 in which he finally acquired his long sought after 4 cilinder 500 with Kanemoto. Sadly it wasn't as competitive anymore. He indeed had a wildcard though in that crazy 2005 China GP in which he finished an awesome 6th place on the Minolta i believe, same race Jaqcue finished second.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (heyhuub @ Oct 25 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>haha, fair enough It's you're btw

Jurgen's last full season was 2002 in which he finally acquired his long sought after 4 cilinder 500 with Kanemoto. Sadly it wasn't as competitive anymore. He indeed had a wildcard though in that crazy 2005 China GP in which he finished an awesome 6th place on the Minolta i believe, same race Jaqcue finished second.
<strike>Your</strike> you're right - I was typing too fast,

I remember it - one of the wettest races in recent memory, I also recall pictures a large frog hopping around in the paddock - (not Jacque I hasten to add).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 25 2009, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, think about it. The fearsome reputation given to the 500's is generally given by fans from the golden era of the late 80's and early 90's and is heavily romanticised (as most fond memories are). That is totally understandable. I contend that the last generation of 500's fell far from this. Relatively speaking the engines where tuned to be more rideable, had electronic traction control systems, unleaded fuel and most importantly they had very suitable chassis and tyre technology.

I don't think that the 990's were more viscious than the 500's, but if you compared like for like (say bikes from 02) then you'd find riders like Biaggi looking like they were having as much trouble muscling their four strokes around the track as the Honda pons duo on their well setup and familiar 2-strokes. Go one year on and we all know what happened to Kato.

Arabiatta covered the main points I'd have made - but the issue about Kato is a non-starter. Did you read my original post?


The list below consists of a great number of deaths that occurred before the advent
of the 990 four-stokes. One death in the first year of the 990 format is nothing
compared to what went before.

See below for list of deaths in MGP (Isle of Man deaths don't count as that place is
and has been always, a suicide circuit)

1949 Ben Drinkwater (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1950 David Whitworth (GBR) GP Spa Francorchamps
1951 Dario Ambrosini (ITA) GP Albi
1951 Gianni Leoni (ITA) Ulster GP
1951 Sante Geminiani (ITA) Ulster GP
1952 Dave Bennett (GBR) GP Bern
1953 Leslie Graham (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1954 Rupert Hollaus (AUT) GP Monza Practice
1954 Dennis Lashmar (GBR) GP Solitude
1956 Derek Ennett (GBR) Ulster GP
1957 Charlie Salt (GBR) GP Isle of Man
1957 Roberto Colombo (ITA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1960 Bob Brown (AUS) GP Solitude
1960 Peter Febrache (GBR) GP Assen
1961 Ron Miles (AUS) GP Dundrod
1963 Marcellin Herranz (FRA) GP Charade
1964 Vernon Cottle (GBR) GP Imatra
1965 Ramón Torras (SPA) GP Barcelona
1969 Bill Ivy (GBR) GP Sachsenring[13]
1969 Robin Fitton (GBR) GP Nürburgring
1971 Christian Ravel (FRA) GP Spa Francorchamps
1971 Angelo Bergamonti (ITA) GP Riccione
1971 Günter Bartusch (GDR) GP Sachsenring
1973 Renzo Pasolini (ITA) GP Monza
1973 Jarno Saarinen (FIN) GP Monza
1974 Billie Nelson (GBR) GP Opatija
1975 Rolf Thiele (BRD) GP Assen
1976 Otello Buscherini (ITA) GP Mugello
1976 Paolo Tordi (ITA) GP Mugello
1977 Ulrich Graf (SUI) GP Opatija
1977 Giovanni Zigiotto (ITA) GP Opatija
1977 Hans Stadelmann (SUI) GP Salzburgring
1980 Patrick Pons (FRA) GP Silverstone
1981 Michel Rougerie (FRA) GP Yugoslavia
1981 Sauro Pazzaglia (ITA) GP Imola
1981 Alain Beraud (FRA) GP Brno
1983 Michel Frutschi (SUI) GP Le Mans
1983 Rolf Rüttimann (SUI) GP Rijeka
1983 Norman Brown (NIR) GP Silverstone
1983 Peter Huber (SUI) GP Silverstone
1984 Kevin Wrettom (ENG) GP Spa-Francorchamps
1989 Iván Palazzese (VEN) GP Hockenheim
1993 Noboyuki Wakai (JPN) GP Jeréz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Oct 26 2009, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I supposed so... or it was just them saying: "Too hard of a bone to roar on!" (Just joking hermano!)

No I think all my bones had turned to jelly in that situation still spooks me to think about it I'll never get in that situation again I swear!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No I think all my bones had turned to jelly in that situation still spooks me to think about it



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Oct 25 2009, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> I'll never get in that situation again I swear!

You have no idea how much fun it was today... from 11:30 am till 3 pm riding! Almost all open ocean for us (a cousin that had never used them and I). Of course we ran out of Petrol in the middle of the ride and pushed it to the shore swimming just to find out about that little 'Reserve' switch! Now we have read it in the manual!

We have ran 1.5 tanks and still need like another 1.5 to settle the engine, so we haven't even accelerated at all yet. I guess we still have another weekend to go till full use!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 25 2009, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as EVERY RIDER WHO HAS RACED BOTH WILL TESTIFY. Rossi, Barros, Capi, Hopper, Checa, Sete, Haga, Jezza, Van De Goorberg, Kenny Jnr etc etc, they all say the same.......Tom disagrees with them.

Just because I can (and from memory)

You should add McCoy as well (RedBull Yamaha to Kawasaki) who would likely be a very good example of which is easier if one compares his 'incidents' from an observation viewpoint

And probably others







Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Oct 25 2009, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But Tom, the people that rode them both do.

Sorry have you changed sides? I said: "I don't think that the 990's were more viscious than the 500's" You tell me thats wrong and go on to argue in support of my statement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 25 2009, 11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Arabiatta covered the main points I'd have made - but the issue about Kato is a non-starter. Did you read my original post?

I did, and you might chose to notice that nobody was killed in the latter years of the 500's which supports my view. Although obviously the death figures (being relatively low) cannot be conclusive alone

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 26 2009, 09:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I did, and you might chose to notice that nobody was killed in the latter years of the 500's which supports my view. Although obviously the death figures (being relatively low) cannot be conclusive alone

Tom, you do seem a bit hung up (morbidly some would say) on the death figures as a means of supporting (at least partially) your argumant/point.

But, whilst your point is aimed at the machinery it does not take into consideration other evolutionary improvements in the areas of circuit safety, rider equipment etc that have also contributed greatly to teh lessening of severe injury or death within the sport.





Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Oct 26 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom, you do seem a bit hung up (morbidly some would say) on the death figures as a means of supporting (at least partially) your argumant/point.

You couldn't be more wrong, i'm not the one who has posted these figures and pointed to them to strengthen a point. If you read the quote you just use, i even pointed out their very limited use in this discussion. Just like you said, there are many other factors