Is this era one of the greats?

double

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 6 2009, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>schwantz and rainey mentally fragile ? you ....... .... eating .... cucking ...... ! rainey is probably the most mentally strong person i have ever met. he man is paralized yet still promotes the sport and races carts. you cant put this man down. go and hang yourself you pathetic prick pinky, see who would give a ....

Good call!!

#27Aus - How dare you forget that Wayne Rainey is the only man in a wheelchair to ever even attempt living life

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 7 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#27Aus - How dare you forget that Wayne Rainey is the only man in a wheelchair to ever even attempt living life

yeah shame on me... but main problem here is ive forgotten that he is american... if i said something about preziosi they wouldnt give a .... about that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 7 2009, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#27Aus - How dare you forget that Wayne Rainey is the only man in a wheelchair to ever even attempt living life
damn tom... what the .... does being in a wheelchair have anything to do with it. no wonder you cop so much .... here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 7 2009, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.. what the .... does being in a wheelchair have anything to do with it.

EXACTLY my point!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 7 2009, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>EXACTLY my point!
The three world championships I would have thought are fairly relevant though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 7 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The three world championships I would have thought are fairly relevant though.

No doubt

asafa powell probably is second fastest man in the world but he is very fragile under the pressure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 7 2009, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good call!!

#27Aus - How dare you forget that Wayne Rainey is the only man in a wheelchair to ever even attempt living life
so how many do you know Tom ?
and if you do would you say they have a fragile mind ?? your as big a .... and troll and pinky #27aus or what ever you/he is calling themselves.
These are rhetorical questions because im not really interested in what you think or have to say !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 7 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so how many do you know Tom ?
and if you do would you say they have a fragile mind ?? your as big a .... and troll and pinky #27aus or what ever you/he is calling themselves.
These are rhetorical questions because im not really interested in what you think or have to say !
Many people from all sorts of prior situations deal with such things in an inspiring and admirable manner. Mental fragility is not something I have previously considered in the context of such people, a group which would definitely include wayne rainey as a prominent member.

I find people formerly possessed of extreme physical ability such as ali and rainey particularly heroic in the way they have dealt with their subsequent disabilities, which is I think a natural reaction, but I am not aware that either of them consider themselves so; indeed ali and I think rainey are still grateful to have had the chance to succeed as they did.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 7 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe, based upon the stories I hear from people who were there, and the hundreds of articles, both past and present that I have hoarded or memorised, and the footage that I have seen, that Jarno Saarinen was one of the most naturally talented races ever to have graced this sport....

Amen to that. I was a castrol team rider fan ( probably cos the only link I got to the racing was via Castrol monthly magazines, and folks tended to go for teams back then moreso than specific riders ) but when Saarinen came along I at first saw him as an upstart but then the guy just turned upsidedown the whole ethos of racing at the time, indeed I view him as possibly the most influential rider of all time. His death certainly killed racing for a few years for me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 7 2009, 04:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You talk my language buddy

What cos you do the same crap as Pinky Rog.? with the "catty" PMing

Gee's your'e a hypocrit Rog.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ May 8 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What cos you do the same crap as Pinky Rog.? with the "catty" PMing

Gee's your'e a hypocrit Rog.
pot kettle sado.

i dont need to pm you, ill call you a .... here ! As i said to another prick on this board ,im not interested in what you think or have to say so why keep quoting me ? name dropping troll !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ May 2 2009, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the future will we look back at this time and reflect on it as one of the great era's of riders? I am not referring to 800's or any of the other problems but am referring to the riders.

We have Rossi who is arguably the greatest racer of all time and then we have 3 or 4 hot young guns who are able to match it with Rossi on any given weekend and as proven by Stoner, match it with him over the course of a whole season. It is rare that there are so many quality riders in their prime at the same time. And we are yet to see the likes of Simoncelle and Bautista and Kallio make their way to the top.

Those of us who have been watching for a long time often reflect back on the Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan days and how great those guys were and how great those era's were.

Is now one of those times that for the next 10 - 20 years we and those that come after us will be looking back and saying - "those riders were phenominal and would kick the butts of todays riders"?

I for one think we are in or just beginning an era of unprecedented rider quality.


It’s a very good question.

I've actually wondered myself. We have the "Golden Era" of the sport to look back on as comparison. As you say this question most regards the “riders”, but I feel we must include the ‘machine’ in talking about the "era". In short, I'd say it hasn't matched the 80'-90's of the sport. But there is a good case that now we have an amazing cast of talent and technology that is if anything, may be close 2nd or 3rd to the modern equivalent of the "Golden Era" of GP racing.

Rossi and Stoner, being both an amazing talent, and more importantly about equal in performance (though Stoner being a relative new-comer), are modern "rivals" with many elements missing. It would be hard to argue that they are rivals like the former champs. Of course the element of "mixing it up" and "head to head" battles are lacking, they at very least trade points leads and victories from venue to venue. And the rivalry is fairly new; starting only in 2007, though it can be argued it wasn't much of a rivalry since Casey dominated the season. Looking at 2008 we can see more exchanges, perhaps the peak of which was at Laguna Seca. 2008 offered more of a true rivalry in which Casey by attrition relinquished, and Rossi by consistency outperformed Stoner to the title.


The 500s certainly separated the boys from the men, but likewise the 800s have also separated riders of sorts. The machines have not separated the riders in the same way though, as the 800s have separated the riders more along the lines relative to the critical and narrow range of optimum performance. So narrow is the is range that even a slight anomaly of tires can affect the result so much as to influence greatly the results. No to mention the lack of parity in development that seems now to be getting closer.

Having said all that, Rossi and Stoner have proven to be the class of the field, with Lorenzo and Pedrosa in tow. So is this the modern “Golden Era” of GP? I don’t think so. But is it an amazing time to be watching MotoGP? Yes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 6 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... the bed HF - I can see both the dog eared disheveled arm chair with my name on it, and the attendant domino set in the corner of the convalesence/care home beckoning already. Thank's for that...no doubt soon I will indeed be drooling out of one corner my arse as well as my mouth -incontinent and regularly shitting the bed, much to the chagrin of my abusive sadistic careworker.

You can't help your age, some of the most informed posts and balanced views come from the younger members of this forum, who perhaps lack the jaundiced cynicism of we, the 'senior' contributers to this site. It's a frank and bold admission that because of your age you weren't there to witness an era, and so are not entitled to pass comment. In fact you can. I wasn't around to watch Hailwood, although I started watching and going to races in the late '70's, I was never fortunate enough to see him race at a meeting. As a kid, I devoured whatever literature that I could on my heroes, and knowing of and being around people in the racing fraternity first hand from that time, I lapped up whatever anecdote they cared to regale me with. I believe, based upon the stories I hear from people who were there, and the hundreds of articles, both past and present that I have hoarded or memorised, and the footage that I have seen, that Jarno Saarinen was one of the most naturally talented races ever to have graced this sport....but I never saw him ride, and others may disagree. There is no absolute right or wrong answer. Of the riders I have seen, I think Spencer exuded the most natural talent, but that's my opinion, and there's already been another thread devoted to it.

What I find irkesome is when some members of this forum (one in particular springs to mind) seem to regard themselves as self appointed and self anointed oracles, and spout opinionated and uninformed so called 'facts' in a demeaning and condescending manner. It's as though they present themselves as an infinite font of knowledge which you are privileged to dip into and quench your thirst for enlightenment. This sort of pointless and pharisaical posturing pollutes powerslide.

Pot kettle and black? - sure, I'm a smug opinionated ....... too, but I post off the top of my head, and sometimes out of the bottom of my arse, but I don't mind being put in my place by the many people on here that know better - and I'm reasonably good at fighting my own corner too. I might argue the toss with say, Babel - ...., the other day I suggested he was preaching, which runs about as rich coming from me as my old sooted and coked up KH triple, but I respect the guy's opinion and the fact that his knowledge and posting is obviously spontaneous and forthcoming, which makes it even more of a challenge debating something with him. Similarly I love it when thread steers into a certain direction, as it did the other day on the subject of Ron Haslam and sponsorship, and someone like Rog immediately lobs in a comment about the hub center steering Elf Honda. Or recently he mentioned the H1-R which made me smile...thinking about it, I actually bought that old KH because of that ....... thing. It doesn't matter if you've never heard of these, or don't remember them - just don't pretend you do

HF -I'm sure you do have a clue, and an opinion, but perhaps receptive to the criticism leveled at you over your recent ageist comments, you've swallowed too large a slice of humble pie...don't choke on it kid!

It also doesn't matter if you weren't around during a certain era..Grand Prix Motorcycle racing is 60 years old for gawd's sake. But I would suggest it would be foolhardy to posit authoritative assertions, surmise spurious statements and type dismissive drivel about riders like Kevin Schwantz and his achievements both on and off the track if the only thing you were doing was dumping in a diaper at the time.

Damn good post, man.

And I think it's already been covered, but anybody talking sht on Wayne Rainey needs to get beat down...

I named my youngest son Rainey.

That bio was a great read.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 6 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.... the bed HF - I can see both the dog eared disheveled arm chair with my name on it, and the attendant domino set in the corner of the convalesence/care home beckoning already. Thank's for that...no doubt soon I will indeed be drooling out of one corner my arse as well as my mouth -incontinent and regularly shitting the bed, much to the chagrin of my abusive sadistic careworker.

You can't help your age, some of the most informed posts and balanced views come from the younger members of this forum, who perhaps lack the jaundiced cynicism of we, the 'senior' contributers to this site. It's a frank and bold admission that because of your age you weren't there to witness an era, and so are not entitled to pass comment. In fact you can. I wasn't around to watch Hailwood, although I started watching and going to races in the late '70's, I was never fortunate enough to see him race at a meeting. As a kid, I devoured whatever literature that I could on my heroes, and knowing of and being around people in the racing fraternity first hand from that time, I lapped up whatever anecdote they cared to regale me with. I believe, based upon the stories I hear from people who were there, and the hundreds of articles, both past and present that I have hoarded or memorised, and the footage that I have seen, that Jarno Saarinen was one of the most naturally talented races ever to have graced this sport....but I never saw him ride, and others may disagree. There is no absolute right or wrong answer. Of the riders I have seen, I think Spencer exuded the most natural talent, but that's my opinion, and there's already been another thread devoted to it.

What I find irkesome is when some members of this forum (one in particular springs to mind) seem to regard themselves as self appointed and self anointed oracles, and spout opinionated and uninformed so called 'facts' in a demeaning and condescending manner. It's as though they present themselves as an infinite font of knowledge which you are privileged to dip into and quench your thirst for enlightenment. This sort of pointless and pharisaical posturing pollutes powerslide.

Pot kettle and black? - sure, I'm a smug opinionated ....... too, but I post off the top of my head, and sometimes out of the bottom of my arse, but I don't mind being put in my place by the many people on here that know better - and I'm reasonably good at fighting my own corner too. I might argue the toss with say, Babel - ...., the other day I suggested he was preaching, which runs about as rich coming from me as my old sooted and coked up KH triple, but I respect the guy's opinion and the fact that his knowledge and posting is obviously spontaneous and forthcoming, which makes it even more of a challenge debating something with him. Similarly I love it when thread steers into a certain direction, as it did the other day on the subject of Ron Haslam and sponsorship, and someone like Rog immediately lobs in a comment about the hub center steering Elf Honda. Or recently he mentioned the H1-R which made me smile...thinking about it, I actually bought that old KH because of that ....... thing. It doesn't matter if you've never heard of these, or don't remember them - just don't pretend you do

HF -I'm sure you do have a clue, and an opinion, but perhaps receptive to the criticism leveled at you over your recent ageist comments, you've swallowed too large a slice of humble pie...don't choke on it kid!

It also doesn't matter if you weren't around during a certain era..Grand Prix Motorcycle racing is 60 years old for gawd's sake. But I would suggest it would be foolhardy to posit authoritative assertions, surmise spurious statements and type dismissive drivel about riders like Kevin Schwantz and his achievements both on and off the track if the only thing you were doing was dumping in a diaper at the time.



Jeez, you get it right every time mate. This is a cracking post.

Pete

i like ham

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ May 2 2009, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the future will we look back at this time and reflect on it as one of the great era's of riders? I am not referring to 800's or any of the other problems but am referring to the riders.

We have Rossi who is arguably the greatest racer of all time and then we have 3 or 4 hot young guns who are able to match it with Rossi on any given weekend and as proven by Stoner, match it with him over the course of a whole season. It is rare that there are so many quality riders in their prime at the same time. And we are yet to see the likes of Simoncelle and Bautista and Kallio make their way to the top.

Those of us who have been watching for a long time often reflect back on the Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan days and how great those guys were and how great those era's were.

Is now one of those times that for the next 10 - 20 years we and those that come after us will be looking back and saying - "those riders were phenominal and would kick the butts of todays riders"?

I for one think we are in or just beginning an era of unprecedented rider quality.

Now that we are nearing the end of the season I was wondering if opinions which were split fairly evenly had changed at all. After PI we have seen that yes Stoner is a great talent and through the season we have seen the emergence of Lorenzo into a huge force that was only suspected at the beginning of the season. Pedrosa I think has proved himself to be only fast and no real threat to a championship this or probably any future year. Also the bikes seem to be able to be ridden more like a 990 and less one line only. So are we in or beginning a great era of MotoGP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 9 2009, 06:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It’s a very good question.

I've actually wondered myself. We have the "Golden Era" of the sport to look back on as comparison. As you say this question most regards the “riders”, but I feel we must include the ‘machine’ in talking about the "era". In short, I'd say it hasn't matched the 80'-90's of the sport. But there is a good case that now we have an amazing cast of talent and technology that is if anything, may be close 2nd or 3rd to the modern equivalent of the "Golden Era" of GP racing.

Rossi and Stoner, being both an amazing talent, and more importantly about equal in performance (though Stoner being a relative new-comer), are modern "rivals" with many elements missing. It would be hard to argue that they are rivals like the former champs. Of course the element of "mixing it up" and "head to head" battles are lacking, they at very least trade points leads and victories from venue to venue. And the rivalry is fairly new; starting only in 2007, though it can be argued it wasn't much of a rivalry since Casey dominated the season. Looking at 2008 we can see more exchanges, perhaps the peak of which was at Laguna Seca. 2008 offered more of a true rivalry in which Casey by attrition relinquished, and Rossi by consistency outperformed Stoner to the title.


The 500s certainly separated the boys from the men, but likewise the 800s have also separated riders of sorts. The machines have not separated the riders in the same way though, as the 800s have separated the riders more along the lines relative to the critical and narrow range of optimum performance. So narrow is the is range that even a slight anomaly of tires can affect the result so much as to influence greatly the results. No to mention the lack of parity in development that seems now to be getting closer.

Having said all that, Rossi and Stoner have proven to be the class of the field, with Lorenzo and Pedrosa in tow. So is this the modern “Golden Era” of GP? I don’t think so. But is it an amazing time to be watching MotoGP? Yes.

Jumkie, if you re read your post would you still post it as is today?

I think this will be the end of the golden era. With the loss of the 250's, I don't think the up and coming riders will be as good because they wont have had that steady progression through the ranks. Jumping from a 125 to a 600 is quite a difference from a 125 to a 250.

this year has been very good not what i expected at all.
some great riders it could have been even better with more competative ppl on the grid
to show there skills and push each other to bettering there skills
if the rides were available to them

i liked the 500's at there peak and having many ppl in a championship helps riders push on and tone there skills more
as we've seen this year with the top 4,and we've seen full grids keep ppl on there toes.and make close racing & championships

1 Kevin SCHWANTZ Suzuki USA 248
2 Wayne RAINEY Yamaha USA 214
3 Daryl BEATTIE Honda AUS 176
4 Mick DOOHAN Honda AUS 156
5 Luca CADALORA Yamaha ITA 145
6 Alex BARROS Suzuki BRA 125
7 Shinichi ITO Honda JPN 119
8 Alex CRIVILLE Honda SPA 117
9 Niall MACKENZIE Yamaha 103
10 Doug CHANDLER Cagiva USA 83
11 John KOCINSKI Cagiva USA 51
12 Juan LOPEZ MELLA Yamaha 46
13 Matt MLADIN Cagiva AUS 45
14 Jose KUHN Yamaha FRA 45
15 John REYNOLDS Yamaha GBR 42
16 Bernard GARCIA Yamaha FRA 40
17 Renzo COLLEONI Yamaha ITA 22
18 Laurent NAVEAU Yamaha BEL 21
19 Sean EMMETT Yamaha GBR 19
20 Tsumoto UDAGAWA Yamaha 18
21 Michael RUDROFF Yamaha 17
22 Jeremy McWILLIAMS Yamaha 17
23 Carl FOGARTY Cagiva GBR 13
24 Toshihiko HONMA Yamaha JPN 8
25 Juan GARRIGA Cagiva SPA 7
26 Kevin MAGEE Yamaha AUS 7
27 Simon CRAFAR Yamaha NZE 7
28 Norihiko FUJIWARA Yamaha JPN 6
29 Lucio PEDERCINI Yamaha ITA 6
30 Serge DAVID Yamaha SWI 6
31 Corrado CATALANO Yamaha ITA 5
32 James HAYDON Yamaha GBR 5
33 Toshi ARAKAKI Yamaha JPN 4
34 Andrew STROUD Yamaha NZE 4
35 Kevin MITCHELL Yamaha GBR 3
36 Andreas MEKLAU Yamaha AUT 3
37 Freddie SPENCER Yamaha USA 2
38 Cees DOORAKKERS Yamaha NED 2
39 Ron HASLAM Yamaha GBR 2
40 Bruno BONHUIL Yamaha FRA 1

1 Kenny ROBERTS Yamaha USA 110
2 Barry SHEENE Suzuki GBR 100
3 Johnny CECOTTO Yamaha VEN 66
4 Wil HARTOG Suzuki NED 65
5 Takazumi KATAYAMA Yamaha JPN 53
6 Pat HENNEN Suzuki USA 51
7 Steve BAKER Suzuki USA 42
8 Tevo LANSIVUORI Suzuki FIN 39
9 Marco LUCCHINELLI Suzuki ITA 30
10 Michel ROUGERIE Suzuki FRA 23
11 Virginio FERRARI Suzuki ITA 22
12 Steve PARRISH Suzuki GBR 20
13 Boet VAN DULMEN Suzuki NED 15
14 Steve MANSHIP Suzuki GBR 12
15 Christian ESTROSI Suzuki FRA 11
16 Graziano ROSSI Suzuki ITA 7
17 John NEWBOLD Suzuki GBR 7
18 Roberto PIETRI Yamaha VEN 6
19 Gianni ROLANDO Suzuki ITA 6
20 Gerhardt VOGT Yamaha GER 5
21 Philippe COULON Suzuki SWI 5
22 Leandro BECHERONI Suzuki ITA 4
23 Alex GEORGE Suzuki GBR 4
24 Jurgen STEINER Suzuki GER 4
25 Jean Philippe ORBAN Suzuki BEL 3
26 Carlo PERUGINI Suzuki ITA 2
27 Tom HERRON Suzuki IRL 2
28 Gianfranco BONERA Suzuki ITA 2
29 Bruno KNEUBÜHLER Suzuki SWI 2
30 Dennis IRELAND Suzuki NZE 1
31 Kenny BLAKE Yamaha AUS 1

1 Giacomo AGOSTINI Yamaha ITA 84
2 Phil READ MV Agusta GBR 76
3 Hideo KANAYA Yamaha JPN 45
4 Tevo LANSIVUORI Suzuki FIN 40
5 John WILLIAMS Yamaha GBR 32
6 Barry SHEENE Suzuki GBR 30
7 Alex GEORGE Yamaha GBR 30
8 John NEWBOLD Suzuki GBR 24
9 Armando TORACCA MV Agusta ITA 24
10 Jack FINDLAY Yamaha AUS 23
11 Chas MORTIMER Yamaha GBR 23
12 Karl AUER Yamaha AUT 17
13 Dieter BRAUN Yamaha GER 16
14 Mike GRANT Kawasaki GBR 15
15 Gianfranco BONERA MV Agusta ITA 13
16 Stan WOODS Suzuki GBR 12
17 Horst LAHFELD Koenig GER 11
18 Christian LEON Koenig FRA 9
19 Billie GUTHRIE Yamaha IRL 8
20 Olivier CHEVALLIER Yamaha FRA 6
21 Patrick PONS Yamaha FRA 6
22 Steve TONKIN Yamaha GBR 6
23 Steve ELLIS Yamaha GBR 6
24 Tierry TCHERNINE Yamaha FRA 6
25 Penti KORHONEN Yamaha FIN 5
26 Pete McKINLEY Yamaha GBR 5
27 Geoff BARRY Yamsel GBR 5
28 Thierry VAN DER VEKEN Yamaha BEL 4
29 Charlie WILLIAMS Yamaha GBR 4
30 Michel ROUGERIE Harley Davidson FRA 4
31 Gerard CHOUKROUN Yamaha FRA 4
32 Marcel ANKONE Suzuki NED 4
33 Alan NORTH Harley Davidson RSA 4
34 Edmar FERREIRA Yamaha BRA 3
35 Tom HERRON Yamaha IRL 3
36 Tony RUTTER Yamaha GBR 3
37 Francis HOLLEBERG Yamaha BEL 3
38 Hans STADELMANN Yamaha SWI 3
39 Johnny BENGTSSON Yamaha SWE 3
40 Hans BRAUMANDL Yamaha AUT 3
41 Bjorn HASLI Yamaha NOR 2
42 Helmut KASSNER Yamaha GER 2
43 Borge W. NIELSEN Yamaha DEN 2
44 Bernard FAU Yamaha FRA 2
45 Adu CELSO-SANTOS Yamaha BRA 2
46 Seppo KANGASNIEMI Yamaha FIN 1
47 Pekka NURMI Yamaha FIN 1
48 Kjell SOLBERG Yamaha NOR 1
49 Jean Francois BALDÉ Yamaha FRA 1
50 Anssi RESKO Yamaha FIN 1
51 Peter VAN DER WAL Yamaha NED 1
52 Rudolph KELLER Yamaha SWI 1
53 Les KENNY Yamaha GBR 1