Indy Official Thread *spoilers*

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 16 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure I over heard Peders pleading with Dorna to make another extraordinary exception and let him use Michelins when it suits him and Bridestones when it suits him. Quick, somebody remind me, is Motegi a Bstones or Michshitlin track. I await the press release to see what Dani will be riding.
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i think all teams should be aloud to do that, but your tyres on the day.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 16 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure I over heard Peders pleading with Dorna to make another extraordinary exception and let him use Michelins when it suits him and Bridestones when it suits him. Quick, somebody remind me, is Motegi a Bstones or Michshitlin track. I await the press release to see what Dani will be riding.
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With the love Spain and all those who want to manufacture a spanish champ give that ... it wouldn't surprise me one bit to hear that.

EZY> AHH in order to make the series fair and balanced we are granting special permission to Dani and the Pig to now have Carte Blanche with tire choices. They are allowed to have ANY tire company come in and offer them a tire for Race day. They will be able to test a multitude of tires during practice and also if they don't get the position they wanted in qualifing the grid will be reset and we will run the qualify until the desired result is achieved. Thank you for your support of Dani GP uhh errrr ummm er ahh I mean Moto GP. YEah that's what I meant. Hey Did anyone see my pilot for the Repsol party jet to the beach?

This was on MCN right next to the pic of the new VFR v5 coming out in 09.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 16 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm pretty sure I over heard Peders pleading with Dorna to make another extraordinary exception and let him use Michelins when it suits him and Bridestones when it suits him. Quick, somebody remind me, is Motegi a Bstones or Michshitlin track. I await the press release to see what Dani will be riding.
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And he wouldn't feel too ashamed by it either
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Bridgestone is probarbly going to dominate totally if it's dry on their home track.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goatboy @ Sep 16 2008, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually it was Charlie Boorman's By Any Means that was on at the time. Doubly ironic because I know damn well Charlie was watching Indy.

It's indicative of how people just want to take a shot at the beeb I guess
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You really need to pull your .... out of the beebs .... I don't have a problem with the majority of their programes. Additionally I wasn't taking a pop a the beeb i was merely pointing out how far down the pecking order motogp is.

If you want to be pedantic about what program was on for the actual race yes you are correct, but come on that program with Charlie is an even bigger joke than a 3rd repeat of top gear. However I was talking about what was taking the place for the whole motogp program ie pre race build up, 125 and 250's etc.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Sep 16 2008, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think all teams should be aloud to do that, but your tyres on the day.

at extra cost to pedrobot
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 12 2008, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"Just checking the MotoGP timesheets - anyone else notice top speed numbers for Yamaha?

LORENZO 243.582; EDWARDS 240.984; TOSELAND 240.589

Then... ROSSI 275.572

Sooo... are the Bridgestones letting him get power down earlier for better terminal velocity, or, is his bike spec that much faster? "


That was FP1. Checkin' those sheets again for FP2...

LORENZO 234.445; EDWARDS 237.669; TOSELAND 234.258

Then... ROSSI 275.313

No speculation on this? Rossi's good, but not 40kms better without have an edge in tyres or equipment...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 13 2008, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This got nothing to do with engine but 99.9% to do with when the rider starts braking. The speed trap are with the current conditions within the braking zone for turn one and that is one scary MF in the rain. But I'll agree that 9kmph faster than anyone is fast, but than again they are spred all over from 230 to 275.

Edit: Seems to remember that Rossi were very close to the inner curbs entering the turn. My guess is that he give the bike a small direction change before starting to brake, sending him in to the inner curbs. Allmost like a dive on the inside when attempting a pass.
Advantage: He'll pass anyone with that top speed and early entry. Better controll on the front while on the brakes.
Disadvantage: Less corner speed and risk of others passing (again) on the outside.

While most of the others take amore typical dry line approach, earlier on the brakes and continue braking in a very carefull turn in. Give them a better line but slower entry.

Oh my lord, you have no ....... shame. You, the man who screamed about Casey and his unfair speed advantage, and here you SPIN away the cold hard mathematical facts. ....... unbelievable. You have ZERO credibility in anything you say. Another reason why your ability to debate is worthless and far inferior. Even faced with the numbers, you make a worthless case mixed with fake ... pretend technical ........ to explain something you know NOTHING about. Typical babel.

Look back to the pass Rossi makes on Dovi where they go into the straight, watch as Rossi pulls away from Dovi so much that he even goes out of the helicopter frame field of view. This is reminiscent of the acceleration you talked so much .... about when Stoner did it at Qatar. Why didn't you have a few paragraphs of complete ........ to explain that away? Your explanation above is lame beyond description.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 17 2008, 07:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh my lord, you have no ....... shame. You, the man who screamed about Casey and his unfair speed advantage, and here you SPIN away the cold hard mathematical facts. ....... unbelievable. You have ZERO credibility in anything you say. Another reason why your ability to debate is worthless and far inferior. Even faced with the numbers, you make a worthless case mixed with fake ... pretend technical ........ to explain something you know NOTHING about. Typical babel.

Look back to the pass Rossi makes on Dovi where they go into the straight, watch as Rossi pulls away from Dovi so much that he even goes out of the helicopter frame field of view. This is reminiscent of the acceleration you talked so much .... about when Stoner did it at Qatar. Why didn't you have a few paragraphs of complete ........ to explain that away? Your explanation above is lame beyond description.
In defense of Babel, the speed trap times in the drier conditions of QP for the 4 yamahas were very different than those in the wet.

In QP :
Edwards 306.0
Toseland 305.0
Rossi 304.4
Lorenzo 301.9

This does tend to point to the fact that in the wet the trap was well into the breaking zone and Rossi was just breaking later than the other Yams. The tyres may well have some influence on this.

In FP1 Hayden was the fastest Michelin rider through the trap at 267.1 (8th fastest), then De Puniet 10th fastest. The 3 Michelin shod Yams were slowest.

Hayden appeared to gain on Rossi in the straight for a period of the race, yet his fastest speed trap in FP1 was 8kph slower than Rossis. The speed trap in the wet was obviously not telling the whole story.

In conclusion I do not believe that looking at all the data supports a claim that Rossi's bike has a speed advantage over the other Yams.
 
Going over the data now I am tending to agree with Yamaka46. If the speed trap was set up as described, the B-Stone wets were probably allowing Rossi to brake later and skew the trap times.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 17 2008, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Going over the data now I am tending to agree with Yamaka46. If the speed trap was set up as described, the B-Stone wets were probably allowing Rossi to brake later and skew the trap times.
Acceleration.

Oh wait, are you talking about late breaking into that problematic and slipper turn one?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Sep 16 2008, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In defense of Babel...
You're gonna have a long day if you plan on "defending babel". He put forth a rather shady spin on what was presented showing a major difference in speed trap times. Of course, babel being the fanboy he is, gave "99%" credit to the rider (something that didn't apply to the speed trap times for Stoner when he was busy crapping on him). Micky ("though not speculating" as he said) offers to point to the tires perhaps. Well if you know anything about babel, you would know he is the resident 'TIRE EXPERT' on the forum. It amazing his response didn't point to the most obvious of the difference between the four bikes, one of which has the Bstones while the other three have the Michelin. AMAZING!

He categorically eliminates the possibility that it might be the "engine", so what else is left in equipment that may suggest a difference? Uhm, the tires!

But no, babel goes into a rant about how he notices Rossi goes inside the curbing and blablabla ........ to account for the major difference. ...., even his elementary math was off, uhm, only "9kmph" Hello 243-275=. Get a calculator out <strike>enginequeer</strike> engineer.
 
Babel did babel
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tires definitely seem to be the deciding factor in the rain, amongst the Yamaha's.

Cummon Jumkie, I know you're smart enough to realise we are talking about two totally different concepts here: 1. Whether Yamaka46 is correct about speed trap placement or not, the B-Stone shod Yamaha was either getting power down quicker coming out of the last corner OR able to brake later going into the first corner than its Michelin clad twin(s); and 2. Expressed rider confidence in the track surface at corner one. I didn't see any compelling passes there, in fact what stands out is Dovi backing off a late-braking pass when it looked like he had Nicky dead to rights there...

EDIT 4 JUMKIE - Let's keep it to one thread - see my response on "OFFICIAL - Hayden to Ducati" thread. I really started the top speed thing to get a rise out of the Rossi conspiracy theorists... but ya never know what yer gonna get when ya float the balloon.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 17 2008, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel did babel
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tires definitely seem to be the deciding factor in the rain, amongst the Yamaha's.

EDIT 4 JUMKIE - Let's keep it to one thread - see my response on "OFFICIAL - Hayden to Ducati" thread. I really started the top speed thing to get a rise out of the Rossi conspiracy theorists... but ya never know what yer gonna get when ya float the balloon.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 17 2008, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're gonna have a long day if you plan on "defending babel". He put forth a rather shady spin on what was presented showing a major difference in speed trap times. Of course, babel being the fanboy he is, gave "99%" credit to the rider (something that didn't apply to the speed trap times for Stoner when he was busy crapping on him). Micky ("though not speculating" as he said) offers to point to the tires perhaps. Well if you know anything about babel, you would know he is the resident 'TIRE EXPERT' on the forum. It amazing his response didn't point to the most obvious of the difference between the four bikes, one of which has the Bstones while the other three have the Michelin. AMAZING!

He categorically eliminates the possibility that it might be the "engine", so what else is left in equipment that may suggest a difference? Uhm, the tires!

But no, babel goes into a rant about how he notices Rossi goes inside the curbing and blablabla ........ to account for the major difference. ...., even his elementary math was off, uhm, only "9kmph" Hello 243-275=. Get a calculator out <strike>enginequeer</strike> engineer.

At times you behave like the worst troll there is Jumkie. Spitefull and avnegeous you throw in everything you have on what is an allready lost case.
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First of all, it IS about braking point and also, depending on the speed trap equipment, at what angle the riders pass the trap. It's not about engine, but as Yamaka pointed out it might very well have something to do with the tires, and I didn't rule that out I just didn't debate the point.
Secondly when you try to correct someone you better be damned sure you got it right but this night most things seems to have gone wrong for you, jetlag? I wrote 9kmph faster than anyone else. Not any Yamaha. The difference to the next fastest rider were 9kmph.

You jump on me on all sorts of things and assume I have some fanboy perspective on everything.
That's to bad becuase insted of the rest of us being able to discuss minor disagrements you tend to demolish quite a few discussions. Quite similar to this one, except you really really got it wrong this time. The TRUTH in my words are obvious for everyone to see. But not for you. You can go on trying to paddle back, divert, attack but you simply got it all wrong. Put words in my moth, twist them, use uncomparable condidtions, do what ever you want but it is still easy for anyone to see who got it right.
Allthough you won't ever believe this I DO form my opinions out of experience and knowledge and not fanboyism. They might get coloured by my preferences but they are allways soundly based on knowledge. It doesn't mean I'm allways right, and when I'm speculating it's based on probable senarious rader than wishfull dreaming. As I said, you would never belive it, but neither will anyone here belive a word of those two postes of yours above
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This is a well known problem for speed traps. They don't measure top speed they only measure monentary speed at a given vector in over a very short distance. Riders may have their top speed any other place on the circuit and it may measure wrong because their direction are on a different vector and so on. There are many sources for error here. But the main cause of errror when differences like this show up it is allways when the trap is in the braking zone.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 17 2008, 07:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh my lord, you have no ....... shame. You, the man who screamed about Casey and his unfair speed advantage, and here you SPIN away the cold hard mathematical facts. ....... unbelievable. You have ZERO credibility in anything you say. Another reason why your ability to debate is worthless and far inferior. Even faced with the numbers, you make a worthless case mixed with fake ... pretend technical ........ to explain something you know NOTHING about. Typical babel.

Look back to the pass Rossi makes on Dovi where they go into the straight, watch as Rossi pulls away from Dovi so much that he even goes out of the helicopter frame field of view. This is reminiscent of the acceleration you talked so much .... about when Stoner did it at Qatar. Why didn't you have a few paragraphs of complete ........ to explain that away? Your explanation above is lame beyond description.

I can't believe someone would write this bollocks
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Sep 17 2008, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You wouldn't like to get back to the bike park and find this:

DSCN0831.jpg


This is clearly a tribute to Casey from his American fans!
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Joking aside; that would break your heart to come back to the bike park to find that...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Sep 16 2008, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're welcome.

I see you quoted my post but not sure if you read it carefully. Please highlight the part where I said the race was stopped BECAUSE OF/FOR THE SAKE OF Rossi. Here, I'll quote myself below:



What I'm saying here is a response to those few saying the race was stopped in Hayden's favor, that the very same thing could be implied in Rossi's favor. BTW, it wasn't just Rossi dealing with the dangerous condition and effecting his riding, other midpackers, who's health is just a worthy to maintain were getting bent by the winds.

The moment you are probably talking about was another incident, it was caused by Rossi coming in contact with the paint (I think this is the one your are referring to). Not sure what lap that was, but it wasn't lap 10, I'm fairly certain of that off of memory, but I'll check.

I said "hydroplaned", that means he hit accumulating water.

Anyway, do you understand the point I was making now? In other words, (for the third time hoping you understand the watered down explanation) <if> one is gonna believe that the race was stopped for the sake of Hayden, then by that same logic, one must accept that this could have been as well done for Rossi. Perhaps it just the Hayden haters suggesting this, but then again, Lorenzo has had two major injuries, I'm sure passing Hayden in those conditions would have not been easy and the risk would have been something to consider. But like I said in my original post, we don't know what would have happened. So if you gonna have people speculate about one, then it follow we can speculate about the other...which is the reason you took issue with my post. Now seeing that you are a Rossi fan, I doubt you would accept the ladder, so it follows then (again logic) that neither or both were either red flagged because of weather or preservation of positions exclusively. Again, I believe it was weather causing the dangerous conditions that led to the red flag. And you could have also gathered from my last sentence in my post: "Rossi got a well deserved win." of what I think about the race.

And if you or another person are tempted to think it was for the preservation of position, we don't know what the reaction of either Hayden or Lorenzo would have been for the next few laps, keep in mind Rossi struggled for a few laps to pass Dovi and then Hayden. Changing conditions were a factor. As a matter of fact, if you watch the race again, you will see that after Rossi had gapped Hayden, on one lap near the end Hayden made up some time. So as you can see, conditions and lap times were changing as did the extreme weather conditions.

Now you get my perspective?


Thanks again Jumkie for your explaining!

Ok, I understand it now better. I thought maybe you hadn`t watched the race on tv, and you meant that other moment.( Sorry! my mistake)

I am with you , that all the riders had problem with riding in that wether, and i expected also a redflag even a little earlier, but perhaps they wanted to make sure that the race was over 2/3 of it before redflaging it.

Anyway, since Rossi mentioned only one moment of his, i thought maybe it`s been that one ,that we watched, But now i believe your words for it.

I really dont think they stopped the race for the sake of Hayden, because even if Lorenzo had overtaken him, Hayden would still finish on the podium, and there is almost no different between 2nd

and 3rd. (I mean a podium is a podium when it goes over the 2nd and 3rd places and it`s between 2 riders that are not fighting for the lead in the championship)

So, Thanks again
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Red R6 07 @ Sep 16 2008, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You really need to pull your .... out of the beebs .... I don't have a problem with the majority of their programes. Additionally I wasn't taking a pop a the beeb i was merely pointing out how far down the pecking order motogp is.

If you want to be pedantic about what program was on for the actual race yes you are correct, but come on that program with Charlie is an even bigger joke than a 3rd repeat of top gear. However I was talking about what was taking the place for the whole motogp program ie pre race build up, 125 and 250's etc.Your attitude tells.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 17 2008, 03:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At times you behave like the worst troll there is Jumkie.
Ah don't get your panties all in a bunch. You know we enjoyed a moment of friendliness; but you continued to harp on my posts. So in turn, I have continued to expose your extreme inconsistencies. We could have kept the truce, but you chose otherwise. Don't get soft on me now buddy. Look, if you are ever in these parts, I will be the first to buy you a beer and talked hours of MotoGP with you. Even though all your opinions are mostly all wrong, I appreciate your passion for the sport.
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Here, I found this just for you. Being that you are the forum's resident tire expert, and reading some of your posts on the subject of Spies & Peders use of the Bstones, I offer you common ground at least on this one point. Here, enjoy the link:
LINK

Did you read the caption at the bottom of the pic?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Sep 17 2008, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You wouldn't like to get back to the bike park and find this:

DSCN0830.jpg


DSCN0831.jpg


Looks like the only bikes that fell down were Ducati's...... how fitting.
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