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Honda's RC213V Engine

Dr No
3437151361229530

As I surmised. No overlay. Not even a side-on photo. But some nice clear shots that just stop short of revealing the truth...shots from Honda's press kit probably. Or ones edited by HRC PR anyway.


 


Not saying it's not a 90deg, but this is usual speculation and cards-close-to-chest/hidden PR games we get from these guys.


 


Does anyone ever edit Spalding's stuff?


The water-pump and balance shaft are in different positions to the 800. Why does a V90 need the balance shaft? (translation error?)


New weight distribution and improved 'mass centralisation'....let's open up the V?


 


Regardless, the 'evidence' is based on speculation based on guesswork..
Click to expand...


Maybe but not 100% convinced yet,lets get close enough to take lots of photo's but not a conclusive one. hmmm
 
Andy Roo
3437481361262762

 Rugby League is a mans game, the rest are just girls games and pointless hobbies, that is until you cheer for St Kilda. Truly I love sportoholics.  
Click to expand...


 


Yeah, union is for girls... piss off, ya big jessie! So the reason League isn't more popular is because there aren't enough real men to play? :)


 


Have a look at the sheila's in action: (I would have posted the Wobblies best, but there isn't enough to warrant a whole youtube clip ;) )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8v-qZFVYnc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmzWVjOlqYE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BpVdVuKYJA
 
Dr No
3437451361253049

My ability to read Italian is rubbish, so I haven't seen where Nakas says it's 90 (is it in that moto.it article?)


Krop has said he's seen it, that equals hearsay. Hearsay with weight, but hearsay nevertheless. in any case he wrote one 12 word OP and then disappeared.


Spalding has written a lot, but not provided any decent evidence. 'His' photos seem deliberately obfuscatory.


 


In any case, as I've repeatedly written, I am quite happy to accept it's 90 degrees.  


My beef is a presentation of 'proof' which is nothing of the sort. Just me being fussy.


 


Eventually, I hope to see a nice side on photo with a clear(ish) view of the head gasket split line.
Click to expand...


 


translate.google.com. Open up the PDF on the Moto.it site, cut and paste the text into Google Translate (or Bing translate, if you are so inclined). There you will see Nakamoto admitting that the engine is a 90°V, and explaining why they chose to do that. 


 


Back when I was interested in engine speeds, I was trying to analyze the data by looking at ignition points in the sound files. The trouble was, whenever I looked at it, I was getting weird firing times, which looked suspiciously like a 90° cylinder layout. I believed that I was being stupid, and misinterpreting the data, because I thought I knew that the engine was 75°. Now I know I was being stupid by not believing the data.
 
BJ.C
3437681361286022

One point that I had overlooked that was raised in the comments of that article - there is an engine design freeze from 2014 for a few years, that's going to .... up any chance Ducati has to make a new, slimmer, lighter, more easily packaged engine, unless they do something in the next few months.
Click to expand...


More proof that ezy's main strategy is to do what bernie has done in F1 and hope it works. Unfortunately being the only alternative to the msma doesn't necessarily make him a good or smart alternative, and the law of unintended consequences very often seems to apply to his decisions.


 


Maybe it will work as honda and yamaha plus honda "production" motogp bikes and yamaha engined CRT bikes, but ducati would seem likely to be even more screwed as you say and the re-entry of suzuki or kawasaki and the entry of bmw etc would seem likely to be problematic.
 
Kropotkin
3437721361287158

translate.google.com. Open up the PDF on the Moto.it site, cut and paste the text into Google Translate (or Bing translate, if you are so inclined). There you will see Nakamoto admitting that the engine is a 90°V, and explaining why they chose to do that. 


 


Back when I was interested in engine speeds, I was trying to analyze the data by looking at ignition points in the sound files. The trouble was, whenever I looked at it, I was getting weird firing times, which looked suspiciously like a 90° cylinder layout. I believed that I was being stupid, and misinterpreting the data, because I thought I knew that the engine was 75°. Now I know I was being stupid by not believing the data.
Click to expand...


Read your recent article on your site which was a good one. I had surmised all along in this thread that you were fairly sure but not certain enough to make it a news item on your site as you said in that article. Good from our point of view that you feel able to, and hopefully enjoy, being a little more speculative on here like we rather less well informed fans.


 


Certainly a 90 degree V4 makes absolute sense for honda in terms of their history and engineering philosophy, and the narrow angle 800 V4 now seems to be the aberration, although an understandable one in view of it being a spin off from the stupendous V5 990 engine, the  design of the latter presumably having allowed those involved to attain engineering nirvana.
 
michaelm
3437751361288301

Certainly a 90 degree V4 makes absolute sense for honda in terms of their history and engineering philosophy, and the narrow angle 800 V4 now seems to be the aberration, although an understandable one in view of it being a spin off from the stupendous V5 990 engine, the  design of the latter presumably having allowed those involved to attain engineering nirvana.
Click to expand...


"Engineering Nirvana" - I like that. Somewhere, in another part of the universe, a Honda engineer is building something awesome. My guess is either a Death Star or an Orbital
 
Kropotkin
3437721361287158

translate.google.com. Open up the PDF on the Moto.it site, cut and paste the text into Google Translate (or Bing translate, if you are so inclined). There you will see Nakamoto admitting that the engine is a 90°V, and explaining why they chose to do that. 


 


Back when I was interested in engine speeds, I was trying to analyze the data by looking at ignition points in the sound files. The trouble was, whenever I looked at it, I was getting weird firing times, which looked suspiciously like a 90° cylinder layout. I believed that I was being stupid, and misinterpreting the data, because I thought I knew that the engine was 75°. Now I know I was being stupid by not believing the data.
Click to expand...


 


I've opened the file before, but relied on the earlier post with the google translation posted earlier in this thread.


 


(As an aside, firing order/timing has less to do with cylinder angles than crank angles...so sound files can give a clue, but not proof, so it's not at all stupid)
 
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BJ.C
3437671361284947

Yeah, union is for girls... piss off, ya big jessie! So the reason League isn't more popular is because there aren't enough real men to play? :)


 


Have a look at the sheila's in action: (I would have posted the Wobblies best, but there isn't enough to warrant a whole youtube clip ;) )


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8v-qZFVYnc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmzWVjOlqYE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BpVdVuKYJA
Click to expand...


 


 


 


My real beef with Union? 


 


Too much emphasis on the kick (points) and not enough on a try. You should never be able to win a game off the boot (this maybe the Australian Johnny Wilkinson syndrome). 


 


League limited its kick penalty opportunities and got much better ball play and line play. Bigger hits, desperation play (especially in defence). Better to watch - hasn't always been that way  but league evolves better. Union is a game for monkeys in the time of chimpanzees. 
 
michaelm
3437751361288301

Read your recent article on your site which was a good one. I had surmised all along in this thread that you were fairly sure but not certain enough to make it a news item on your site as you said in that article. Good from our point of view that you feel able to, and hopefully enjoy, being a little more speculative on here like we rather less well informed fans.


 


Certainly a 90 degree V4 makes absolute sense for honda in terms of their history and engineering philosophy, and the narrow angle 800 V4 now seems to be the aberration, although an understandable one in view of it being a spin off from the stupendous V5 990 engine, the  design of the latter presumably having allowed those involved to attain engineering nirvana.
Click to expand...


 


Krop also says in that Motomatters article:


 


The British photographer and journalist is a common sight wandering among the garages, either first thing in the morning, as the bikes are being warmed up, or late at night, while the mechanics prepare the machines for the following day. At some point, the Honda mechanics and engineers - protective to the point of prudishness of displaying any part of their machine to the outside world - would let their guard slip. When they did, Spalding pounced.


 


FFS, I have comparable photos to the one shot of an exposed rear cyclinder head and airbox that Spalding presents as 'proof'.


 


Krop would like us to believe that it was this photo and Spalding's investigative/engineering talents that unveiled the 90 degrees.


 


When the much more prosaic explanation is that Shuhei came out and said it and Spalders proceeded to turn his few dozen words into hundreds.


 


As journos do.
 
finally someone with the same opinion concerncing spalding.


 


what i'd find interesting is the firing order/invertvals of the rcv compared to the desmo. should be a normal screamer right?
 
Dr No
3438191361325041

Krop also says in that Motomatters article:


 


The British photographer and journalist is a common sight wandering among the garages, either first thing in the morning, as the bikes are being warmed up, or late at night, while the mechanics prepare the machines for the following day. At some point, the Honda mechanics and engineers - protective to the point of prudishness of displaying any part of their machine to the outside world - would let their guard slip. When they did, Spalding pounced.


 


FFS, I have comparable photos to the one shot of an exposed rear cyclinder head and airbox that Spalding presents as 'proof'.


 


Krop would like us to believe that it was this photo and Spalding's investigative/engineering talents that unveiled the 90 degrees.


 


When the much more prosaic explanation is that Shuhei came out and said it and Spalders proceeded to turn his few dozen words into hundreds.


 


As journos do.
Click to expand...


Whether or not spalding had a scoop I think david himself did with his own sleuthing; cf the 1st post in this thread, when no-one else afaik was suggesting the honda 1000 engine was a 90 degree V4.
 
Actually, I don't think much of Spalding, and he absolutely hates me, mainly for publishing on the internet. He I'd, however, a litigious .....
 
Ha!

Really?

Litigious? Do tell.


You have the balls to interact with your readers, he spouts an awful lot of crap that goes unchallenged.


A well meaning soul gave me his stinkingly expensive RET magazine. It was an embarrassing disgrace.
 
Andy Roo
3438131361320444

My real beef with Union? 


 


Too much emphasis on the kick (points) and not enough on a try. You should never be able to win a game off the boot (this maybe the Australian Johnny Wilkinson syndrome). 


 


League limited its kick penalty opportunities and got much better ball play and line play. Bigger hits, desperation play (especially in defence). Better to watch - hasn't always been that way  but league evolves better. Union is a game for monkeys in the time of chimpanzees. 
Click to expand...


 


I like you Andy, thats my beef too! My brother played rugby growing up to the level where he got to the Wales under 18's team, but after a few injuries and the changes in the sport he lost his passion and quit. As he says:


 


What other sport in the world is it considered a "good move" to kick the ball out of play?


 


Its true, and while I support my team, the game isnt very exciting anymore.


 


Sorry, back to the Honda. Interesting stuff though I think Ducati's woes are the chassis rather than the motor angle. Plus they are using it as a stressed frame which Honda isnt I believe? Doesn't the Duck have a longer swingarm too? Just seems to me that Ducati struggle to build a balanced GP bike on control tyres that can't be adapted to overcome the deficiencies of the bike.
 

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