Honda's RC213V Engine
- Thread starter Kropotkin
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Details, details! Just bask in the off-season glory of a V4 that isn't an L4 - Oh, wait! 
(oops, channelling Barry! )
(oops, channelling Barry! )
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
ty Krop
not ideal Google translate
We had been over a year
speculating settings
RC212V engine, since the angle
between the 800 cc cylinder was
75/76 º, but what about the 1000 cc?
SPALDING N. NEIL SPALDING
D
ince training Mugello last year
so far, Honda has continued to improve. HRC
2013 debuted his bike which was immediately after the race at Mugello last year, and
since then has continued to perfect:-do has appeared a second generation engine tuning, with
Gas response and more accurate bending with a chassis
lateral revised to better match the latest tires
Bridgestone.
Honda successfully kept hidden even design your engine
1000 cc for all of last season. We know it is
a V4, we know that the water pump and balance shaft and
not occupy the same place in the 800 cc engine, and we know
that the diameter can not exceed 81 mm. There have been many
speculation that the basic design of the V had gone from
75.5 º to 76 º, which had been the norm over the last decade
to something close to 90 º, but we had no evidence
of change.
Now, however, we do. The Honda engine is a V4
90 °, the large airbox that we saw last year now covers the
rear upper cylinder V engine another more of 75/76 ° as
we assumed, in fact, is supported in the intake duct
V-engine 90, an engine now longer.
From 75 to 90
The reasons are very simple change: Honda was happy
with what he had achieved so far with the 800 engine, find the
correct height and position for the center of mass of the engine. In-tonces, when the displacement up to 1,000 cc, decided
that butts up another 6 mm-to-career increase would have affected
too perfect mass balance achieved, which, added to
the new weight distribution required by Bridgestone, 2011,
led them to decide the architecture of the new engine. And there was much
an engine space to accommodate longer.
There are many other reasons to switch to 90 if it does not affect the
handling: do not need a balance shaft, which also lose aho-war power, torque motor inertia is much better controlled,
Thus as in the Yamaha M1 and eventually pressure fluctuations
the airbox and exhaust gases can be harmonized to achieve
maximum power.
The use of a V-engine 90 ° by this test Honda
configuration works, and it is a justification of defending Preziosi
The engine configuration TECHNICAL RC213V
086
MOTOGP
last year, when he declared that it was necessary to reduce the
V4 cylinder angle of Italian. Similarly, the cam-
Honda bio reinforces the importance of the correct distribution
weight, especially the correct positioning of the crankshaft, and
influence on the dynamic performance of the bike. Find this
position is much easier with a compact engine 75/76 º,
but now we know that it is possible to do with each other
90. Now it's up to Ducati match the achievement of Honda and find
correct weight distribution of 90 ° V4.
Since this architecture requires more space in the longitudinal
motorcycle engine than the previous V-closed, and the space is gained in
the rear, the direct effect is that more weight load on the shaft
.... This tire is used only in those primary
ma weight load on the rear axle, as Bridgestone. It
Therefore, based on this premise, the redesigned Honda motorcycle body-
ro for that adapts perfectly to these tires. Now
soft shell tire Bridgestone debuted at half
2012 season. At that time it seemed that the only way
to work on these new tires was displacing more
front axle weight, and this would have forced Honda to redesign
whole bike, even forcing them to go back and mount a new
vo tighter engine. But apparently, Honda is able to
make these tires work with a new chassis which
different areas have been redesigned flexural modulus ... Having him
seen, a long wheelbase and weight distribution with
more load on the front axle, as does Yamaha, appear to be
the only viable solutions to make the tires work.
Small variations
Despite the many changes to the RC213V,
it looks identical to the bike that premiered after the GP of Mu-
Gello of last season. There are new details, such as a
alascolocadas small escape routes in air
hot radiator, which are actually protective nets.
The fairing is also unusual in that it seems the usual design-
do for careers with higher temperature,
Outputs with large hot air evacuation of the radiator.
Finally, note the recurrence of the grills at the outputs of
escape to prevent the entry of stones in case of a fall,
Configure V at 90 ° was chosen for
preserve the perfect mass centralization
V4 achieved with 75 ° of the 800 cc
not ideal Google translate
We had been over a year
speculating settings
RC212V engine, since the angle
between the 800 cc cylinder was
75/76 º, but what about the 1000 cc?
SPALDING N. NEIL SPALDING
D
ince training Mugello last year
so far, Honda has continued to improve. HRC
2013 debuted his bike which was immediately after the race at Mugello last year, and
since then has continued to perfect:-do has appeared a second generation engine tuning, with
Gas response and more accurate bending with a chassis
lateral revised to better match the latest tires
Bridgestone.
Honda successfully kept hidden even design your engine
1000 cc for all of last season. We know it is
a V4, we know that the water pump and balance shaft and
not occupy the same place in the 800 cc engine, and we know
that the diameter can not exceed 81 mm. There have been many
speculation that the basic design of the V had gone from
75.5 º to 76 º, which had been the norm over the last decade
to something close to 90 º, but we had no evidence
of change.
Now, however, we do. The Honda engine is a V4
90 °, the large airbox that we saw last year now covers the
rear upper cylinder V engine another more of 75/76 ° as
we assumed, in fact, is supported in the intake duct
V-engine 90, an engine now longer.
From 75 to 90
The reasons are very simple change: Honda was happy
with what he had achieved so far with the 800 engine, find the
correct height and position for the center of mass of the engine. In-tonces, when the displacement up to 1,000 cc, decided
that butts up another 6 mm-to-career increase would have affected
too perfect mass balance achieved, which, added to
the new weight distribution required by Bridgestone, 2011,
led them to decide the architecture of the new engine. And there was much
an engine space to accommodate longer.
There are many other reasons to switch to 90 if it does not affect the
handling: do not need a balance shaft, which also lose aho-war power, torque motor inertia is much better controlled,
Thus as in the Yamaha M1 and eventually pressure fluctuations
the airbox and exhaust gases can be harmonized to achieve
maximum power.
The use of a V-engine 90 ° by this test Honda
configuration works, and it is a justification of defending Preziosi
The engine configuration TECHNICAL RC213V
086
MOTOGP
last year, when he declared that it was necessary to reduce the
V4 cylinder angle of Italian. Similarly, the cam-
Honda bio reinforces the importance of the correct distribution
weight, especially the correct positioning of the crankshaft, and
influence on the dynamic performance of the bike. Find this
position is much easier with a compact engine 75/76 º,
but now we know that it is possible to do with each other
90. Now it's up to Ducati match the achievement of Honda and find
correct weight distribution of 90 ° V4.
Since this architecture requires more space in the longitudinal
motorcycle engine than the previous V-closed, and the space is gained in
the rear, the direct effect is that more weight load on the shaft
.... This tire is used only in those primary
ma weight load on the rear axle, as Bridgestone. It
Therefore, based on this premise, the redesigned Honda motorcycle body-
ro for that adapts perfectly to these tires. Now
soft shell tire Bridgestone debuted at half
2012 season. At that time it seemed that the only way
to work on these new tires was displacing more
front axle weight, and this would have forced Honda to redesign
whole bike, even forcing them to go back and mount a new
vo tighter engine. But apparently, Honda is able to
make these tires work with a new chassis which
different areas have been redesigned flexural modulus ... Having him
seen, a long wheelbase and weight distribution with
more load on the front axle, as does Yamaha, appear to be
the only viable solutions to make the tires work.
Small variations
Despite the many changes to the RC213V,
it looks identical to the bike that premiered after the GP of Mu-
Gello of last season. There are new details, such as a
alascolocadas small escape routes in air
hot radiator, which are actually protective nets.
The fairing is also unusual in that it seems the usual design-
do for careers with higher temperature,
Outputs with large hot air evacuation of the radiator.
Finally, note the recurrence of the grills at the outputs of
escape to prevent the entry of stones in case of a fall,
Configure V at 90 ° was chosen for
preserve the perfect mass centralization
V4 achieved with 75 ° of the 800 cc
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
As I surmised. No overlay. Not even a side-on photo. But some nice clear shots that just stop short of revealing the truth...shots from Honda's press kit probably. Or ones edited by HRC PR anyway.
Not saying it's not a 90deg, but this is usual speculation and cards-close-to-chest/hidden PR games we get from these guys.
Does anyone ever edit Spalding's stuff?
The water-pump and balance shaft are in different positions to the 800. Why does a V90 need the balance shaft? (translation error?)
New weight distribution and improved 'mass centralisation'....let's open up the V?
Regardless, the 'evidence' is based on speculation based on guesswork..
Not saying it's not a 90deg, but this is usual speculation and cards-close-to-chest/hidden PR games we get from these guys.
Does anyone ever edit Spalding's stuff?
The water-pump and balance shaft are in different positions to the 800. Why does a V90 need the balance shaft? (translation error?)
New weight distribution and improved 'mass centralisation'....let's open up the V?
Regardless, the 'evidence' is based on speculation based on guesswork..
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
I would take a guess the overlayed Honda engine would be more compact that the Ducati, helping Honda find a balanced frame and shorter wheelbase quicker than Duc. Also the desmo head having more mechanical parts vs pneumatic valves on the Honda is both taking up more space but also relatively heavy, not helping weight distribution due to higher centre of gravity, which leads to more understeer.
The Aprilia V4 is known to be a very compact 75 degree engine, and the ART appears to outhandle the Ducati, but lacks the outright power. I reckon if Aprilia went all out factory on that engine their bike would be much better than the Duc.
The Aprilia V4 is known to be a very compact 75 degree engine, and the ART appears to outhandle the Ducati, but lacks the outright power. I reckon if Aprilia went all out factory on that engine their bike would be much better than the Duc.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
100%, birdman.
Krop has done his usual cageyness on this one. Since he won't out and say it, I will happily put words his mouth (and Spaldings, since he reckons his article vindicates Prezi's engine decisions)
So the argument is:
The Duke 90deg V4 gets the blame for the Duke's handling woes. But wait! Honda also has a 90deg V4. Therefore any criticism of the Duke's engine is unwarranted and hence, us non-journos without<strike> a <strike>memory </strike>stick from HRC PR</strike> super special access to the HRC pit, know jack .....
Is that accurate?
Krop has done his usual cageyness on this one. Since he won't out and say it, I will happily put words his mouth (and Spaldings, since he reckons his article vindicates Prezi's engine decisions)
So the argument is:
The Duke 90deg V4 gets the blame for the Duke's handling woes. But wait! Honda also has a 90deg V4. Therefore any criticism of the Duke's engine is unwarranted and hence, us non-journos without<strike> a <strike>memory </strike>stick from HRC PR</strike> super special access to the HRC pit, know jack .....
Is that accurate?
Tires were the problem for Ducati, and they've been desperately trying to find a chassis solution to make the tires work? Who could have known?
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
michaelm
WTF???? Rugby league is far away from being the second 'football' code anywhere except Australia. Rugby Union (the sport God plays on Saturdays), is far and away the worlds second most played football code.
Not that I am biased, but the reason you have thirteen players is because when they were working it out, that was the average number of fingers and toes left to the feckless miners that took a great game and simplified it so that even their inbred refs could keep track on the fingers (or stumps) of one hand
And I'm glad to see the OP vindicated - there has been a lot of ..... posted about Honda's V4 - I couldn't or the life of me understand why someone would think it was so outlandish to accept they had redesigned the engine from the 800 - it's what HRC do.
WTF???? Rugby league is far away from being the second 'football' code anywhere except Australia. Rugby Union (the sport God plays on Saturdays), is far and away the worlds second most played football code.
Not that I am biased, but the reason you have thirteen players is because when they were working it out, that was the average number of fingers and toes left to the feckless miners that took a great game and simplified it so that even their inbred refs could keep track on the fingers (or stumps) of one hand
And I'm glad to see the OP vindicated - there has been a lot of ..... posted about Honda's V4 - I couldn't or the life of me understand why someone would think it was so outlandish to accept they had redesigned the engine from the 800 - it's what HRC do.
BJ.C
Gaelic football is generally reckoned to be the world's smallest football code, then between australian rules and rugby league for the 2nd and 3rd smallest.
I am fairly well aware of rugby union's international status, having attended a significant number of matches at 3 rugby union world cups.
3437311361244147
WTF???? Rugby league is far away from being the second 'football' code anywhere except Australia. Rugby Union (the sport God plays on Saturdays), is far and away the worlds second most played football code.
Not that I am biased, but the reason you have thirteen players is because when they were working it out, that was the average number of fingers and toes left to the feckless miners that took a great game and simplified it so that even their inbred refs could keep track on the fingers (or stumps) of one hand
And I'm glad to see the OP vindicated - there has been a lot of ..... posted about Honda's V4 - I couldn't or the life of me understand why someone would think it was so outlandish to accept they had redesigned the engine from the 800 - it's what HRC do.
Gaelic football is generally reckoned to be the world's smallest football code, then between australian rules and rugby league for the 2nd and 3rd smallest.
I am fairly well aware of rugby union's international status, having attended a significant number of matches at 3 rugby union world cups.
Dr No
Nakamura has stated it is 90deg. Krop posted he had seen it and it was 90deg. Spalding has stated it is 90deg.
Vindicated, yes.
Nakamura has stated it is 90deg. Krop posted he had seen it and it was 90deg. Spalding has stated it is 90deg.
Vindicated, yes.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
BJ.C
My ability to read Italian is rubbish, so I haven't seen where Nakas says it's 90 (is it in that moto.it article?)
Krop has said he's seen it, that equals hearsay. Hearsay with weight, but hearsay nevertheless. in any case he wrote one 12 word OP and then disappeared.
Spalding has written a lot, but not provided any decent evidence. 'His' photos seem deliberately obfuscatory.
In any case, as I've repeatedly written, I am quite happy to accept it's 90 degrees.
My beef is a presentation of 'proof' which is nothing of the sort. Just me being fussy.
Eventually, I hope to see a nice side on photo with a clear(ish) view of the head gasket split line.
My ability to read Italian is rubbish, so I haven't seen where Nakas says it's 90 (is it in that moto.it article?)
Krop has said he's seen it, that equals hearsay. Hearsay with weight, but hearsay nevertheless. in any case he wrote one 12 word OP and then disappeared.
Spalding has written a lot, but not provided any decent evidence. 'His' photos seem deliberately obfuscatory.
In any case, as I've repeatedly written, I am quite happy to accept it's 90 degrees.
My beef is a presentation of 'proof' which is nothing of the sort. Just me being fussy.
Eventually, I hope to see a nice side on photo with a clear(ish) view of the head gasket split line.
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
This thread is hilarious, because it didn't mean to be, 2 pages of football + more.
Someone getting cranky pants over it.
Someone being conciliatory.
I love reading through pages of everyone's complete and utter .... to get what I want because you are all pretty damn funny.
AND
Rugby League is a mans game, the rest are just girls games and pointless hobbies, that is until you cheer for St Kilda. Truly I love sportoholics.
Someone getting cranky pants over it.
Someone being conciliatory.
I love reading through pages of everyone's complete and utter .... to get what I want because you are all pretty damn funny.
AND
Rugby League is a mans game, the rest are just girls games and pointless hobbies, that is until you cheer for St Kilda. Truly I love sportoholics.
