Here is something to chew on

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 21 2007, 07:03 PM) [snapback]80355[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Even thats not enough, a 33 BHP restricted 400cc bike with a 17 year old on it is still a bvery dangerous thing.

Better than an 18 year-old on a 1000cc sportbike, no?

I mean there are going to be those riders out there who chuck it away no matter what they ride. You can't fix stupid. You can just hope to implement factors condusive to responsible riding.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 21 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]80356[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Better than an 18 year-old on a 1000cc sportbike, no?


Yeah true, but once something is fast enough to kill you, the extra speed makes little difference after that. But i suppose the small bikes are more restrictable. I think the issue is that driving/riding training is very naive. They teacj you how to ride well within safety margins, but it is so clear that people will not stay there forever. I think it is essnetial to take people out of their comfort zones and safety margins and teach them to remain comfortable and learn how to deal with it properley.

I know what you mean Austin, even in the UK I think we still have a system called direct access if you're over 21, my dad did and the first bike he bought was a CBR600. Naturally, it scared the .... out of him, so he downgraded to a Bandit. Maybe better training is needed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 21 2007, 07:10 PM) [snapback]80365[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yeah true, but once something is fast enough to kill you, the extra speed makes little difference after that. But i suppose the small bikes are more restrictable. I think the issue is that driving/riding training is very naive. They teacj you how to ride well within safety margins, but it is so clear that people will not stay there forever. I think it is essnetial to take people out of their comfort zones and safety margins and teach them to remain comfortable and learn how to deal with it properley.

I agree 100%. I think many riders would benefit from extra training where you are more likely to get in trouble.

As far as the displacement goes and the theory of once you achieve a point of performance that can kill you (as many smaller bikes can achieve), the larger bikes get to that point a whole lot faster than the smaller ones.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 21 2007, 08:14 PM) [snapback]80369[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I agree 100%. I think many riders would benefit from extra training where you are more likely to get in trouble.

As far as the displacement goes and the theory of once you achieve a point of performance that can kill you (as many smaller bikes can achieve), the larger bikes get to that point a whole lot faster than the smaller ones.



I think the problem (as someone who has just passed her test) is that the whole thing is so rushed and expensive. When I passed my test I hadn't even accumulated 24 hours riding time. But when Ive already paid the best part of £550 to train I can't afford the extra £££ advanced training costs and I think that this extra training is essential. Ive been fortunate that my dealership has a great salesperson who has been taking me out giving me extra lessons such as how to place the bike for corners (no I didn't get taught that on the CBT or DAS) and gears etc etc.

I totally agree with Austin that more training is required and that bikes will only get much faster and more powerful and therefore necessitate the need for this extra training.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 23 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]80741[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Guys im telling you,when you crack the door for the governments of any country,they will kick it down and the next thing you know,you have limited rights or no rights at all.I am not anti government but i do keep an eye on my elected officials and i call them on ........ when i see it.Bottom line,motorcycles are dangerous and i dont care if they run 100 or 200 mph,people are going to die on them.Let them pass legislation on cc restictions and hp restrictions,they wont stop there. Give them an inch, they will take a mile. ru

I agree, motorcycling is dangerous but it's also so much fun! The way I see it is that governments (Australian anyway), would love to see motorcycles taken off the road completely. Restricting bikes does nothing in the end because there are so many ways to get around it. People have to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. I've ridden motorcycles for over 15 years and I must admit I've done some stupid things but I know the risks. Advanced training is a great thing to do but I believe it could be partly subsidized by the government. And I totally agree that governments keep trying to erode our rights any way they can. Australia has 2000-3000 motorists die every year but the governments keep saying it is too high. We had close to the same amount of deaths 20 - 30 years ago with millions less vehicles on the road and thousands fewer drivers. It's inevitable there will be a road toll, and every time you drive/ride there's a chance you're going to be in an accident. Deal with it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 23 2007, 12:26 AM) [snapback]80741[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Guys im telling you,when you crack the door for the governments of any country,they will kick it down and the next thing you know,you have limited rights or no rights at all.I am not anti government but i do keep an eye on my elected officials and i call them on ........ when i see it.Bottom line,motorcycles are dangerous and i dont care if they run 100 or 200 mph,people are going to die on them.Let them pass legislation on cc restictions and hp restrictions,they wont stop there. Give them an inch, they will take a mile. ru


Genius.

The problem with motorcycling legislation is the same problem with gun control. A majority of the people making the decisions have never owned or operated the devices so they can't make problem solving decisions.

If you forsake your civil rights for safety, you will have to become a criminal to have fun.

I've always kinda wanted to be an outlaw

I don't think there is anything wrong with the motorcycles here in the USA. But, come on now, we must admit that the licensing requirements are a joke..

The UK Direct Access has been a recipe for disaster. Guys are passing their tests and buying R1s Blades, and RSVRs because DA allows anyone over 21 to ride whatever they want once they got a license. Thatll teach em, allow the folks who can afford to ride what they want to do it, then fill the press with stories about the amount of 40 something men getting killed on our roads.

Its all macho ........ about having the fastest bike. Ive been riding a long time, and folks who have just passed their tests, are telling me they couldnt ride a 600 (which I do) coz they are too small! They tell me they NEED more power!

Better education is needed, and there will always be folks who want to speed. Fine just dont cry when you get busted or end up in traction. We all take risks daily, but have to take responsibility for our actions.

I gotta agree, MCN is full of so much ..... about how bikers get picked on. Sorry, if you speed (face it, we all do) if you get caught you get done, dont moan, nobody made you go fast, you knew the risks.

Try being a musician, I get stopped more times in a years gigging than I have in a lifetimes biking.

Pete

I personally chose the ZX 10R becuase I fit the best on that bike....It felt the best for what I wanted it for....Riding at the track. Do I need 150+ hp? Nope....Do I like it? HELL YES!!!!! Would I go to a 600? I would if I could afford a second bike. The 10R would be the track bike and the 600 would be my street bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(machmanzx10r @ Jul 23 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]81023[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I personally chose the ZX 10R becuase I fit the best on that bike....It felt the best for what I wanted it for....Riding at the track. Do I need 150+ hp? Nope....Do I like it? HELL YES!!!!! Would I go to a 600? I would if I could afford a second bike. The 10R would be the track bike and the 600 would be my street bike.

Well I chose the new cbr 600 for my real first race bike. Im 18 and when I go out on track days i can run circles around some of the guys out there on 1 litre bikes because they do not know how to use all of their available power. Some people ask me if my bikes a 1000 and I just say its a 600. It looks like I am pulling on the 1000s on the straight when in reality Im just getting twice as much drive out of the corners. Some people think that you go faster on a faster bike but thats not true, if I were to get on a cbr 1000 right now I would probably lap slower than my 600 because of not knowing how to use all of the power.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Noodlerizer @ Jul 23 2007, 09:11 PM) [snapback]81026[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well I chose the new cbr 600 for my real first race bike. Im 18 and when I go out on track days i can run circles around some of the guys out there on 1 litre bikes because they do not know how to use all of their available power. Some people ask me if my bikes a 1000 and I just say its a 600. It looks like I am pulling on the 1000s on the straight when in reality Im just getting twice as much drive out of the corners. Some people think that you go faster on a faster bike but thats not true, if I were to get on a cbr 1000 right now I would probably lap slower than my 600 because of not knowing how to use all of the power.



That's great to hear that you bought a 600 for your first bike. Too many times I have seen people your age getting liter bikes just because they want the fastest thing out there.

The 10R is not my first bike...Yes, I do get passed on the track by smaller displacement bikes. It is not because of the bike that I get passed...it is because of me. I am not great at the track, but I can hold my own in the Advanced group. I only get to 2 or 3 track days a year. Sometimes it is only 1 trackday. I go to have fun. I am not worried about getting passed by people on smaller bikes because ueally they are faster than I am. Alot of these guys race week in and week out. I don't...

Can't decide between 600 and 1000cc then do what I did and get a GSXR750. Just enough power for a full size human and all the handling you need.

As far as training and rules and regs go, people are going to die on bikes, in cars, on push bikes, walking down the road etc etc etc. Same as people are going to die from drugs, from domestic violence from many other illegal or legal activities. More and more and more rules and regs or training are never going to stop that just as they never have so far.

Arguing for and allowing politicians to make more is turning democracy's into dictatorships.

I can't believe that supposedly intelligent human beings can keep advocating more of something that has never worked.

Remove the vision that we should all live for ever and then the problem ceases to exist.

My turn on the soap box is over...who is next?