Hayden hails 'big leap forward'

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (demingracer @ Mar 9 2010, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whats your quess? Where do you gain a second. Ducati has always seemed to have a problem getting there second rider competitive. Now after a year of struggleing they have found a second in haydens setup. Hum.


So what is everyone's quess?


Stoner was holding back?

Somebody suggested this, but I doubted it.

Could Haydens newfound "closeness" be evidence of that?


Time will tell.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (demingracer @ Mar 8 2010, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whats your quess? Where do you gain a second. Ducati has always seemed to have a problem getting there second rider competitive. Now after a year of struggleing they have found a second in haydens setup. Hum.


So what is everyone's quess?

That is one ugly arm. Hayden has had injuries from being run into. The new motor is probably more like the V5 now.

If it was a combination of little things, they found them all in one afternoon. How come they didn't find them all of last year? How come hayden, who was almost always a 1 second or more all of last season suddenly within 2/10ths in one day? How come the previous teamates had much the same problem? I think its a very interesting situation if it continues, but i quess i would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when they found the solution to the missing one second.


I think its good for the team to have two fast riders. Yamaha has proven that the last 2 yrs.

The other thought was, which I haven't seen an answer too.

Just how many laps did he run at that newfound speed?

There seems to be a lot of "cageyness" regarding this "newfound speed".

I think the results are twofold. Firstly, I think the big bang motor is a massive improvement over the screamer. I don't think it's the sole reason for his improvement as in Valencia he wasn't this quick, but I think it allows him to be a bit more comfortable. I think the biggest thing is just time on the bike and within the team. Hayden has had a year with Ducati now and is beginning to understand how to convey what he wants and Ducati is starting to understand what exactly Hayden wants. Hayden needs stability and Ducati hasn't had it in a second rider in quite some time.

2003: Bayliss
2004: Bayliss
2005: Checa
2006: Gibernau
2007: Capirossi
2008: Melandri
2009: Hayden

It's the first time Ducati has had consistent feedback from a second rider over two years since Bayliss (or Capirossi if you want to get technical).

These bikes are so unique in their feel and setup, and have such a narrow sweet spot that it takes a long time to develop a comfort and confidence and understand how to make improvements. It's precisely why, which Kropotkin brought up months ago (and I agree with 100 percent), Toni Elias has suffered so much in the first half of seasons but starts to improve after the break. Once he's familiar with a particular bike, he isn't too far adrift of that lead group.

Hayden is very similar, although he's been fortunate enough to be given time with both Repsol Honda and Ducati Marlboro whereas Elias wasn't given those opportunities. To be fair though, Hayden has proven to be very loyal to his teams while Elias has a history of chasing rides.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 8 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just how many laps did he run at that newfound speed?
Barry, I too wanted to know this....was this one lap where he got a 100mph tail wind and he cut a few corners, or did he reel off several laps within alien territory?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 9 2010, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the results are twofold. Firstly, I think the big bang motor is a massive improvement over the screamer. I don't think it's the sole reason for his improvement as in Valencia he wasn't this quick, but I think it allows him to be a bit more comfortable. I think the biggest thing is just time on the bike and within the team. Hayden has had a year with Ducati now and is beginning to understand how to convey what he wants and Ducati is starting to understand what exactly Hayden wants. Hayden needs stability and Ducati hasn't had it in a second rider in quite some time.

2003: Bayliss
2004: Bayliss
2005: Checa
2006: Gibernau
2007: Capirossi
2008: Melandri
2009: Hayden

It's the first time Ducati has had consistent feedback from a second rider over two years since Bayliss (or Capirossi if you want to get technical).

These bikes are so unique in their feel and setup, and have such a narrow sweet spot that it takes a long time to develop a comfort and confidence and understand how to make improvements. It's precisely why, which Kropotkin brought up months ago (and I agree with 100 percent), Toni Elias has suffered so much in the first half of seasons but starts to improve after the break. Once he's familiar with a particular bike, he isn't too far adrift of that lead group.

Hayden is very similar, although he's been fortunate enough to be given time with both Repsol Honda and Ducati Marlboro whereas Elias wasn't given those opportunities. To be fair though, Hayden has proven to be very loyal to his teams while Elias has a history of chasing rides.

great points Austin

I have been wondering if Vitto Gaureschi's new role in the team could be helping. Could Vitto be better at communicating what Hayden wants to the factory? I'm just happy Nicky found this speed and I hope he is still up there at the next test.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BKmoto @ Mar 10 2010, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>great points Austin

I have been wondering if Vitto Gaureschi's new role in the team could be helping. Could Vitto be better at communicating what Hayden wants to the factory? I'm just happy Nicky found this speed and I hope he is still up there at the next test.


Not only communicating to the factory but simply deciphering what Hayden wants for his crew, I imagine it must be very handy to have an ex-rider/racer who speaks the language of the crew and the language of the rider.

Go Team Ducati!!!

The results of Hayden in the last test, was a nice thing to see, but he has to repeat it a few times untill we can be sure about his progress.

I hope he has found his setup and rhythm to mix it up with the G4, at least from time to time.

....hate to re-hash and older thread but here goes.

Interesting article from Dean Adams at Soup, Nicky's weight and the current trend of skinny riders.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Mar/10...ghtleathers.htm

Could this have had that much affect on his lap times?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Mar 16 2010, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....hate to re-hash and older thread but here goes.

Interesting article from Dean Adams at Soup, Nicky's weight and the current trend of skinny riders.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Mar/10...ghtleathers.htm

Could this have had that much affect on his lap times?

I know there is one or two on here that will say weight has nothing to do with it, but consider this: Though the weight from top to bottom of the grid is fairly close, but its only because the 'normal' size dudes have emaciated themselves. So a guy like Nicky may 'only' weight a few pounds more than Rossi or Edwards, the fact is he's had to go through extraordinary diet to get there, where as a Rossi may have that tall lanky build & weight naturally. We see this in boxing; a guy will drop weight and get his ... kicked by the smaller guy. Why? Because the smaller guy is at his normal weight. I suspect this was part of Stoner's illness last year, aside from being just a little bitch (as the haters have tried to convince us).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 9 2010, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the results are twofold. Firstly, I think the big bang motor is a massive improvement over the screamer. I don't think it's the sole reason for his improvement as in Valencia he wasn't this quick, but I think it allows him to be a bit more comfortable. I think the biggest thing is just time on the bike and within the team. Hayden has had a year with Ducati now and is beginning to understand how to convey what he wants and Ducati is starting to understand what exactly Hayden wants. Hayden needs stability and Ducati hasn't had it in a second rider in quite some time.

2003: Bayliss
2004: Bayliss
2005: Checa
2006: Gibernau
2007: Capirossi
2008: Melandri
2009: Hayden

It's the first time Ducati has had consistent feedback from a second rider over two years since Bayliss (or Capirossi if you want to get technical).

These bikes are so unique in their feel and setup, and have such a narrow sweet spot that it takes a long time to develop a comfort and confidence and understand how to make improvements. It's precisely why, which Kropotkin brought up months ago (and I agree with 100 percent), Toni Elias has suffered so much in the first half of seasons but starts to improve after the break. Once he's familiar with a particular bike, he isn't too far adrift of that lead group.

Hayden is very similar, although he's been fortunate enough to be given time with both Repsol Honda and Ducati Marlboro whereas Elias wasn't given those opportunities. To be fair though, Hayden has proven to be very loyal to his teams while Elias has a history of chasing rides.
Excellent post,once again.
I hope he can keep the speed when in totally different circumstances,like quatar at night.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Mar 17 2010, 04:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>....hate to re-hash and older thread but here goes.

Interesting article from Dean Adams at Soup, Nicky's weight and the current trend of skinny riders.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Mar/10...ghtleathers.htm

Could this have had that much affect on his lap times?


I'd believe it would dramatically affect his lap times, maybe they are onto something here.

Look at how Rossi was after the break after 07, he came back looking lean and fit.

So if Hayden has lost 10kg, thats a lot more performance for him on the bike!!

I see Jumkie is talking "normal" sized riders again, and as one who has never been able to put of weight I'd call the skinny guys "normal"

Hospital trips allways drop the weight off so maybe he has been working out more and add to that the effects of the op.s in hospital, maybe he's got himself "fit" again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 9 2010, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the results are twofold. Firstly, I think the big bang motor is a massive improvement over the screamer. I don't think it's the sole reason for his improvement as in Valencia he wasn't this quick, but I think it allows him to be a bit more comfortable. I think the biggest thing is just time on the bike and within the team. Hayden has had a year with Ducati now and is beginning to understand how to convey what he wants and Ducati is starting to understand what exactly Hayden wants. Hayden needs stability and Ducati hasn't had it in a second rider in quite some time.

2003: Bayliss
2004: Bayliss
2005: Checa
2006: Gibernau
2007: Capirossi
2008: Melandri
2009: Hayden

It's the first time Ducati has had consistent feedback from a second rider over two years since Bayliss (or Capirossi if you want to get technical).

These bikes are so unique in their feel and setup, and have such a narrow sweet spot that it takes a long time to develop a comfort and confidence and understand how to make improvements. It's precisely why, which Kropotkin brought up months ago (and I agree with 100 percent), Toni Elias has suffered so much in the first half of seasons but starts to improve after the break. Once he's familiar with a particular bike, he isn't too far adrift of that lead group.

Hayden is very similar, although he's been fortunate enough to be given time with both Repsol Honda and Ducati Marlboro whereas Elias wasn't given those opportunities. To be fair though, Hayden has proven to be very loyal to his teams while Elias has a history of chasing rides.

I subscribe to this theory as well. Casey has even spoken at length about the setup issues with the Ducati and he revealed that he has been dragging the rear brake on the Desmosedici specifically b/c the bike goes light in the front end.

From the outset of Hayden's employment at Ducati, it has been very clear that he cannot get the bike turned and hold the line through the apex. He either turns in to tentatively and then whacks the throttle to swing the rear (we hear nothing but TC) or he bends it in too early and then runs wide.

If the new big-bang engine has too much rear grip (Casey Stoner's gleeful assessment), it could mean that Ducati can put a bit more weight over the front tire. This could help Hayden's front-end woes as well, though I still think he may still struggle a bit this season. Hayden's turn in still looks drastically different from the other Ducati riders, but maybe he will get it sorted.

Regarding Elias, one outlying data point was his 2007 season. He was very competitive on a new bike and new tires. If he hadn't broken his femur, his career could be completely different.

If you want to read about super low weight sports read about the tour de France & Lance Armstrong. Every athlete has to be at the optimal weight for their sport. MotoGP is weird in that the bikes weight is regulated but the combined weight of bike and rider is not. I totally disagree with this situation.