Grand Prix of Qatar 2018

RCV600RR said:

Agree on most of this, but being 15 km/h down is unacceptable for a MotoGP bike. The Yamaha grenaded at Misano. It was even much slower than the Honda.

I agree that Rossi couldn't do what Stoner did on the GP7 or any of the successor bikes. I recall reading Burgess summarising Stoner's incredible riding style - basically, a constant state of oversteer (which overcame the Ducati's reluctance to turn).


The 06 Yamaha had bad chatter issues, but they ended up reverting to an 05 frame at some point during the season which fixed the issues quickly. However, it did obviously grenade itself twice at Laguna and Le Mans.

I'll never forgive HRC for that stupidity with the "Evo" bike.

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This is an old argument, sure the 2007 Ducati was fast in a straight line but the Aprilia cube was also very powerful to not much avail. The speed difference between the Ducati and Yamaha was particularly prominent at one track, either Turkey or China, where Yamaha couldn’t get their gearing right, and this has been taken by some to reflect how things were in every race. Stoner’s team-mate Capirossi who won 8 or 9 gp races and was a strong early contender for the 2006 title on the 990 Ducati GP06 hardly dominated the Yamahas on a factory GP07 either.
(EDIT I believe the engine which failed at Misano was the pneumatic engine under development for the 2008 Yamaha, which Rossi pushed Yahama to let him employ early to address the power deficit to Ducati and aid development of that engine for 2008, the championship which Stoner clinched 2 rounds later in Japan being pretty much over barring a season ending injury to Stoner. I don’t think there were any technical issues with the 2007 engine other than being a spring valve engine underpowered/unable to rev as high compared to the Ducati desmo).

I think the Ducati GP7's speed advantage was over-exaggerated, the reason why Stoner was flying past other bikes was because he was getting it onto the fatter part of the tyre early and getting more drive out of the corners, none of the other Ducatis were flying past other bikes quite like Stoners was.

AntG said:

I think the Ducati GP7's speed advantage was over-exaggerated, the reason why Stoner was flying past other bikes was because he was getting it onto the fatter part of the tyre early and getting more drive out of the corners, none of the other Ducatis were flying past other bikes quite like Stoners was.

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Same thing on the Honda really.

michaelm said:

RCV is no bopper, but rather a fair minded poster imo, and while I dislike Rossi personally after the late season 2015 imbroglio which demonstrated him to be fully complicit in the persecution of his rivals by the “bopper” element among his fandom, even I still consider him to have been a great rider in his pomp and still pretty good at age 39.

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Then why is he using the flawed logic assuming rossi is the best therefore all evidence showing otherwise cant be right. Or in this case suggests it doesnt exist .... even though its all out there and easy to find. Modus operandi ..... exactly the same as any old bopper.

AntG said:

I think the Ducati GP7's speed advantage was over-exaggerated, the reason why Stoner was flying past other bikes was because he was getting it onto the fatter part of the tyre early and getting more drive out of the corners, none of the other Ducatis were flying past other bikes quite like Stoners was.

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Totally agree Ant and as you suggest, anecdotal evidence would indicate the difference and reason for the speed differential (if one is to accept that there was a significant difference) is the way in which Stoner was able to enter the straight/exit the turn. The way he drove out of turns was quite unique and obviously something that was just an innate trait of his as others could not emulate it then or since (and this is one of the reasons I can enjoy watching him, well that ability as well as his exit at T# and entry to Lukey).

On a personal note, I quite like that on one hand you can have a bike that may not be as fast in a straight line but can corner like a demon and upset the applecart.

Said many times and say again, Laguna Seca 2008 was for mine one of the greatest examples of using a 'less powerful' bike's advantages to the utmost in order to get the result, or as I tend to call it, one of the best examples of two guys racing hard with one using every trick in the book (racecraft) to win, and win he did.

I am by no means a Rossi fan but man (personality level), but credit where due.

BarryMachine said:

Then why is he using the flawed logic assuming rossi is the best therefore all evidence showing otherwise cant be right. Or in this case suggests it doesnt exist .... even though its all out there and easy to find. Modus operandi ..... exactly the same as any old bopper.

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Simple really Barry.

RCV is no bopper, never has been and I doubt he ever will be but yes, he is a staunch Rossi fan.

He is no bopper as RCV can and has been critical of Rossi at times and no bopper will criticise their chosen one

BarryMachine said:

Then why is he using the flawed logic assuming rossi is the best therefore all evidence showing otherwise cant be right. Or in this case suggests it doesnt exist .... even though its all out there and easy to find. Modus operandi ..... exactly the same as any old bopper.

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He doesn’t hate all other riders, which is definitional of the genre to which you refer.

It’s cute that a forum of 12 people; more than half of which is under the impression that a 2 time world champion (years apart) somehow belongs in the same sentence as 5,6,9 time champs; thinks that their made up 6 year old vocabulary for classifying motogp fans carry any merit.

synn said:

It’s cute that a forum of 12 people; more than half of which is under the impression that a 2 time world champion (years apart) somehow belongs in the same sentence as 5,6,9 time champs; thinks that their made up 6 year old vocabulary for classifying motogp fans carry any merit.

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Well yes, Kevin Schwantz only had the one title but absolutely he belongs in the same sentence as multiple championship winners.

synn said:

It’s cute that a forum of 12 people; more than half of which is under the impression that a 2 time world champion (years apart) somehow belongs in the same sentence as 5,6,9 time champs; thinks that their made up 6 year old vocabulary for classifying motogp fans carry any merit.

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And it is cute that you think a 39 year old rider should still be the main focus of GP bike racing rather than a guy who is 25 and has already won more titles than Rossi at that age, and that it was reasonable for Yamaha to divest themselves of the guy who won their 3 most recent titles in favour of that 39 year old rider who last won a title 9 seasons ago. You also have yet to extend beyond argumentum ad hominem which you again employ in this most recent post to provide a cogent argument about anything we 12 might choose to post, your repertoire seemingly restricted, like Nick Harris, to “9 times world champion”.

Stoner doesn’t rank with Rossi and Marquez, or Lorenzo for that matter, because he didn’t win enough titles/ride for long enough, but has a rather good head to head record against a less elderly version of Rossi and was very definitely better at riding Ducatis.

The current discussion concerns the quality of the 2006 and 2007 Yamahas in any case, not Rossi or Stoner per se.

I’ll bother to respond with facts when facts actually matter here.
Until then, carry on with the “Bopperr baba googoo “ talk. The adults will continue laughing on the sidelines.

synn said:

It’s cute that a forum of 12 people; more than half of which is under the impression that a 2 time world champion (years apart) somehow belongs in the same sentence as 5,6,9 time champs; thinks that their made up 6 year old vocabulary for classifying motogp fans carry any merit.

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Wow. I could get it if they were talking about an ancient driver; But Stoner? How could you watch that man on action and say that he doesn't belong to the same sentence with multiple champions?

I can understand if you don't like him, these are personal matters. But the fact that he was charismatic is indisputable.And most certainly he belongs to the pantheon of MotoGP.

billkar said:

Wow. I could get it if they were talking about an ancient driver; But Stoner? How could you watch that man on action and say that he doesn't belong to the same sentence with multiple champions?

I can understand if you don't like him, these are personal matters. But the fact that he was charismatic is indisputable.And most certainly he belongs to the pantheon of MotoGP.

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You’re new right?

Read along a bit. This lot of extraordinarily talented gentlemen think a 9 time world champ doesn’t belong in the list of the all time greats but a 2 time world champ does.

BTW, what's wrong with JL? I mean he likes the fairing with the appendices but he.. doesn't because it can't make the Duc turn?

synn said:

I’ll bother to respond with facts when facts actually matter here.
Until then, carry on with the “Bopperr baba googoo “ talk. The adults will continue laughing on the sidelines.

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A convenient attitude for someone like you who posts nothing but ad hominem posts devoid of factual content, and claims to be adult whilst posting witless schoolboy stuff, and primary schoolboy stuff at that. You don’t even have the wit to see that while being more knowledgeable than you are, or I am for that matter, most Barry posts are entirely for the purpose of “taking the urine” as we say down here.

Irony is not what your mother does with your shirts after they are laundered btw, and it is intensely ironic that those of your ilk cannot stand for any anti- Rossi sentiment on even such a small corner of the internet as this forum constitutes, in the face of the almost universal hagiography of Rossi and denigration of any and all of his rivals, past and present, elsewhere.

Rossi was a very great rider and still is a very good one, but I and others on this forum dislike his use of the crazy element among his fandom, above which I have occasionally placed you as a more general fan of the sport, as a weapon against his rivals, and we 12 or so are under no more obligation to like his personality and character than you are Stoner’s.

Rossi’s racecraft and passing moves and the set-up for them were pretty to watch in his prime, but I and others found Stoner’s riding style more spectacular to watch for a single lap than Rossi for a whole race, and similarly MM after he stopped being “murder Marc” as Jumkie dubbed him, the latter definitely a more complete rider than Stoner and likely to expunge most of Rossi’s records fairly imminently.

Sadly, that shows how much of a tunnel vision you have about racing and about me, Mitchell.

I was a Doohan fan and it did not bother me one bit when Rossi broke his accomplishments. It’s not going to bother me when Marquez breaks his accomplishments either. Because I am a fan of Rossi and racing. And just like Rossi didn’t make Doohan any less accomplished after overtaking his accomplishments, neither will Marquez make Rossi any less accomplished.

The only one standing alone looking underaccomplished is bucktooth, who decided to take his ball and go home because the big boys game was too hard for him. I wish him all the best in his fishing adventures.

Now please carry on feeling miserable for another 3 years that Rossi has not retired. That’s just the icing on the cake of getting to watch him race for me.

Vinales looks completely lost again. It's looking like it's going to be more of the same in the near future.

Suzuki is looking really good though, I would love to see them more competitive this year. Rins is looking like a real podium threat right now.

p4p1 said:

Vinales looks completely lost again. It's looking like it's going to be more of the same in the near future.

Suzuki is looking really good though, I would love to see them more competitive this year. Rins is looking like a real podium threat right now.

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That session was worthless except to show Dovi is best in all conditions. Even day time.

synn said:

Sadly, that shows how much of a tunnel vision you have about racing and about me, Mitchell.

I was a Doohan fan and it did not bother me one bit when Rossi broke his accomplishments. It’s not going to bother me when Marquez breaks his accomplishments either. Because I am a fan of Rossi and racing. And just like Rossi didn’t make Doohan any less accomplished after overtaking his accomplishments, neither will Marquez make Rossi any less accomplished.

The only one standing alone looking underaccomplished is bucktooth, who decided to take his ball and go home because the big boys game was too hard for him. I wish him all the best in his fishing adventures.

Now please carry on feeling miserable for another 3 years that Rossi has not retired. That’s just the icing on the cake of getting to watch him race for me.

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Perhaps you are Talpa resurrected.

My apologies, you are obviously not restricted to argument ad hominem, you also do quite a nice straw man. My mood as it happens is unaltered by whether Rossi continues to ride or not, he can ride till he is 50 as far as I am concerned, particularly if his motive is to enjoy himself, which does not exactly appear to be the case, and my only requirement being that the rules are the same for him as for other riders, a requirement which has not looked likely to be met for quite a few years now.

Like most Stoner fans I am also happy to have watched him ride and with what he achieved, and for him to make the choice he considered best for himself and his family, particularly if he was not enjoying the circus gp bike racing has become in the Rossi era. Again ironically it is amusing that it was those who called for him to leave if he didn’t like it who took umbrage when he did so.

If you think Rossi is not motivated or enjoying himself, you’re stuck in the little bubble of alternate reality that you and your buddies have created in this forum.

Go watch the press conference from Thursday as a start to experience reality for. Bit. I must warn you, it will be uncomfortable.