Because he's a money making machine,keep feeding the Rossi cult and more and more glory hunters will jump on the bandwagon,'look at Valentino, he's such a fun guy,always got a smile and a wave for the cameras,all that colourful gear at the VR46 stand,must spend a few hundred dollar/euros on caps and t shirts for the kids just like the thousands of other sheep,i mean, everyone's wearing his stuff so they can't all be wrong,right?',these are the same kind of people who 'support' the best football teams because they're the best and they always win,plastic fans following a fake ........ merchant,i would look forward to his retirement but no doubt he'll run a team and carry on controlling the sport,money talks and no one generates more than the yellow messiah.
Because he's a money making machine,keep feeding the Rossi cult and more and more glory hunters will jump on the bandwagon,'look at Valentino, he's such a fun guy,always got a smile and a wave for the cameras,all that colourful gear at the VR46 stand,must spend a few hundred dollar/euros on caps and t shirts for the kids just like the thousands of other sheep,i mean, everyone's wearing his stuff so they can't all be wrong,right?',these are the same kind of people who 'support' the best football teams because they're the best and they always win,plastic fans following a fake ........ merchant,i would look forward to his retirement but no doubt he'll run a team and carry on controlling the sport,money talks and no one generates more than the yellow messiah.
I will say Rossi himself is a very,very, talented,enormously wealthy and clever man,i'll give him that much.
Stoner was also well placed at Jerez before a certain over-ambitious move, as a renowned wet rider riding conservatively comfortably ahead of the eventual race winner.
Sure, MM's 10 in a row was something remarkable which I also don't expect to see repeated. Even on an MV Augusta in the absence of Japanese factory competition or on a 2002 990 Honda you have to make no riding errors, avoid errors of ambition by others, have no mechanicals and usually defeat a team-mate on similar equipment.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Maybe not mentally weak but he didnt have the mental makeup of a driven athlete either.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Agreed
Athletes want to play and win and they never want to stop. Quitting over anger is not something a typical driven athlete would ever consider.
Tom Brady has had his reputation smeared by a corrupt league for a yr and a half now. He doesn't quit, he says .... you, watch me win
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What is the mental makeup of a driven athlete?
Many people are intensely driven and yet seem as if they are forever high such is how laid back they behave, whilst others are so intense and wound so tight that one suspects an exorcist moment of head spinning at any time.
Each athlete handles their 'drive' in their own way, a way that works for them and generally this is a way that has worked for them for years.
To reach the levels that he had, he was driven and dare I suggest intensely so as there are sacrifices that had to be made and he made them. On achieving that which he did and seeing the future (both racing and social) he may well have lost the intense drive and so he left the sport.
Shame of it all is that I suspect that there are many people, athletes, racers and so forth for whom the drive no longer burns as intensely as it once did and who are maintaining an appearance for their own reasons, CS had the balls to walk into relative obscurity (and for that it seems he is not to be forgiven)
Who says he was angry when he quit -- disillusioned with the sports direction, absolutely but angry?
What about 'driven athletes' who threaten to quit if things do not go their way?
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You don't like Stoner's personality, and many others don't also, and you are obviously entirely entitled to that view.
I would argue that in both 2007 and 2011 Stoner showed as much mental strength and focus for the entire duration of those 2 seasons as anyone has ever displayed, imo as opposed to others 2007 being the most impressive given that thing was still trying to kill him if not quite as determinedly as in his later years at Ducati, and he had to ride at the ragged edge at all times in every race; imo it actually functioned better there and was actually even more likely to throw you off if you rode more conservatively.
He definitely had it for those 2 seasons so he had it in him. I think he may actually have made a mature decision that to continue riding just to confound those who hate him (a significant motivation for him in 2011 imo) was not worth it, given he had made his stash and Australians do commonly have a different attitude to that, rightly or wrongly, than Americans as we have discussed previously; the Australian dream is to get the girl, get the money (in whatever order) and retire to the coast or a farm, not necessarily to keep getting more money. I have no reason to disbelieve that he was and is genuinely happy with his domestic situation, and that his impending fatherhood affected his attitude to things like riding in Japan after the nuclear accident (where his concerns were not necessarily well founded) and Simoncelli's death which particularly affected him. If you read his book one of things concerning which he comments in regard to the Simoncelli tragedy, to the girlfriend of whom his wife was apparently close, was that the usual back biting in the paddock, in the media and among elements of fandom was back to its previous level in a few weeks.
It is admittedly too broad a conclusion, but the type of attitude required for sustaining greatness over unusually long periods is not necessarily consistent with being well rounded, as Tiger Woods would seem to indicate. VR is unmarried at age 37 and apparently mislaid his gorgeous long term girlfriend in the off-season, although being a thoughtful man (not that i always admire where that thoughtfulness leads him) he may have decided to delay such things till he is no longer risking death every week-end.
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Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
More and more athletes are using sports for a means to and end instead of the love of the sport. Look at the NFL , you have superstars retiring in their prime simply so they can have quality of life with the money. I will never ever fault anyone who goes for the money , especially in a profession than can maim or kill you. If they are happy, who the hell am I to begrudge their decisions, they owe me nothing
So are these the criteria you apply when measuring your own professional career?
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Well sure, greatest of all time, it's an opinion and everybody has different criteria.
Here are the reasons why I believe Eddie Lawson from Upland, California is at the very top of the list, or close to it:
- 4 world premier class titles on different makes of bikes
- to my knowledge has never said anything bad or derogatory about a fellow competitor
- to my knowledge has never made an excuse for a sub par performance
- he wanted the guy who forgot to screw his brake pads in at Laguna, causing him to crash at turn 1 with title aspiration ending injury, to still take care of his bike for the rest of the season, reasoning that the guy would never make that mistake again...
Major dude.
Saw him once as I was walking up the the tower stairway at Willow Springs when I was racing in the mid '90's. I wanted to say all kinds of .... about how great and inspiring he had been to me and others during his career.....
but I just said good morning and he did the same....
Major dude.
Here are the reasons why I believe Eddie Lawson from Upland, California is at the very top of the list, or close to it:
- 4 world premier class titles on different makes of bikes
- to my knowledge has never said anything bad or derogatory about a fellow competitor
- to my knowledge has never made an excuse for a sub par performance
- he wanted the guy who forgot to screw his brake pads in at Laguna, causing him to crash at turn 1 with title aspiration ending injury, to still take care of his bike for the rest of the season, reasoning that the guy would never make that mistake again...
Major dude.
Saw him once as I was walking up the the tower stairway at Willow Springs when I was racing in the mid '90's. I wanted to say all kinds of .... about how great and inspiring he had been to me and others during his career.....
but I just said good morning and he did the same....
Major dude.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Neither. He became dissillusioned with the politics of the sport. As was said; had he been able to turn up, race the bike and go home he'd have been fine, but such is the nature of any premier sport these days that you have to give most of your personal life to it too.
I agree in part. However, I think Casey Stoner is like Alex Higgins or George Best. Someone who was born with a god given talent never seen before to, in his case, ride a motorcycle fast and who would be fast on a shopping trolley. People like that are so talented they don't need the drive that someone like Cheater Brady does. The problem is they are sometimes a slave to that talent and cannot handle it. Both Higgins and Best ruined their careers (and lives) to alcohol, because they couldnt deal with the attention their talents drew to them.
Having raced at a professional level, but nowhere near MotoGP, I can sympathise with Stoner. Driven or not, it get's to a point where the parts you don't like outweigh the parts you like. I raced since I was 8, and 2 years ago it got to the point where I was spending 3 weekends a month going back and forth to my parents house getting my kart prepped for, and then checked after a race weekend in the middle. I was spending a fortune for maybe 30 mins a month tops of racing. I miss the racing aspect but not the rest and in the case of Stoner he now has the best of both worlds. he can enjoy retirement, but if he wakes up one day and facnies riding a Ducati MotoGP bike he just rings up Gigi and says "Can I have a go?"
Compare that to a similarly talented athlete who had the most drive arguably to win ever, Ayrton Senna. The day before he died, the F1 doctor suggested he quit and they'd both enjoy their love of fishing together. Senna replied "Sid, I can't quit", we all know what happened the next day. I'm sure in hindsight, Senna wishes he'd been able to enjoy more of his life outside of racing.
Joined Mar 2016
15 Posts | 32+
Ireland
As much as I love the guy, the 1st person I ever heard refer to Rossi as the GOAT was Colin Edwards, sometime in late 2004 and if memory serves me correctly he did again during an interview for Mark Neale's 2005 documentary, "The Doctor, the Tornado & the Kentucky Kid", about the return to Laguna Seca.
From there, the Yellow legion & commentators ran with it, to the point that Keith Huewen on BT Sport can hardly refer to Rossi without calling him 'The Goat'. Keith is also the same numpty who can't refer to Luca Marini without calling him 'Luca MarinihalfbrothertoValentinoRossi'.
As to who is the GOAT? We'll never know, it's all subjective, what do you base it on, wins, longevity, danger, survival, personality? Through every generation there will be a best of that generation, but this Goat thing, Colin Edwards carries the can for us being stuck with it now.
My personal Goat will always be Mick Doohan based on what he achieved after that 1992 crash & the long road back.
All this talk of personalities & mental toughness is kind of laughable, we have no way of knowing if the persona we see on TV is 'real'. Most of the riders from the 'Golden Era' would be slammed on social media if they were still around today. They were motorcycle racers, personality didn't count. Doohan often accused of being cold or standoffish later admitted it was his way to deal with being painfully shy.
Back in 2012 in Aragon, I was lucky enough to meet Cal & Dek Crutchlow in the Paddock. My Mrs & I asked them for a picture and they went out of their way to be ultra nice to us, brought us into the garage to have the pics taken with the bike and chatted anytime we met them over the weekend. A complete antithesis of the personality Cal portrays in front of the cameras. We'll never 'really' know these guys.
Casey Stoner is weak? Spend every weekend at work being bitched at by Rossi fans, booed on the podium in Donington Park and spat on in the paddock (Casey reported this himself) for simply doing what you're paid to do, beat everyone else. Perhaps you or I would also want out of a situation like that. That's not weakness.
Casey was an enigma, I'd call him THE Enigma. Take Casey of 2006 to 2012, stick him back in 1990 and he'd have been the perfect rider in the perfect genre.
If we're going to over analyse these guys based on their personalities, it's worth considering all the factors, little schooling (or lack thereof), non-conventional upbringing, surrounded by their people through their formative years. These guys haven't had the normal personality developments that most of us in the real world are afforded.
If Marc Marquez was to bathe is the juice of freshly squeezed cats while inserting Liqourice allsorts up his chuff singing "I hate you all!", I'd still pay to watch him monster that beast on track.
Greatest of all time? There's no such thing.
From there, the Yellow legion & commentators ran with it, to the point that Keith Huewen on BT Sport can hardly refer to Rossi without calling him 'The Goat'. Keith is also the same numpty who can't refer to Luca Marini without calling him 'Luca MarinihalfbrothertoValentinoRossi'.
As to who is the GOAT? We'll never know, it's all subjective, what do you base it on, wins, longevity, danger, survival, personality? Through every generation there will be a best of that generation, but this Goat thing, Colin Edwards carries the can for us being stuck with it now.
My personal Goat will always be Mick Doohan based on what he achieved after that 1992 crash & the long road back.
All this talk of personalities & mental toughness is kind of laughable, we have no way of knowing if the persona we see on TV is 'real'. Most of the riders from the 'Golden Era' would be slammed on social media if they were still around today. They were motorcycle racers, personality didn't count. Doohan often accused of being cold or standoffish later admitted it was his way to deal with being painfully shy.
Back in 2012 in Aragon, I was lucky enough to meet Cal & Dek Crutchlow in the Paddock. My Mrs & I asked them for a picture and they went out of their way to be ultra nice to us, brought us into the garage to have the pics taken with the bike and chatted anytime we met them over the weekend. A complete antithesis of the personality Cal portrays in front of the cameras. We'll never 'really' know these guys.
Casey Stoner is weak? Spend every weekend at work being bitched at by Rossi fans, booed on the podium in Donington Park and spat on in the paddock (Casey reported this himself) for simply doing what you're paid to do, beat everyone else. Perhaps you or I would also want out of a situation like that. That's not weakness.
Casey was an enigma, I'd call him THE Enigma. Take Casey of 2006 to 2012, stick him back in 1990 and he'd have been the perfect rider in the perfect genre.
If we're going to over analyse these guys based on their personalities, it's worth considering all the factors, little schooling (or lack thereof), non-conventional upbringing, surrounded by their people through their formative years. These guys haven't had the normal personality developments that most of us in the real world are afforded.
If Marc Marquez was to bathe is the juice of freshly squeezed cats while inserting Liqourice allsorts up his chuff singing "I hate you all!", I'd still pay to watch him monster that beast on track.
Greatest of all time? There's no such thing.
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Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
As much as I love the guy, the 1st person I ever heard refer to Rossi as the GOAT was Colin Edwards, sometime in late 2004 and if memory serves me correctly he did again during an interview for Mark Neale's 2005 documentary, "The Doctor, the Tornado & the Kentucky Kid", about the return to Laguna Seca.
From there, the Yellow legion & commentators ran with it, to the point that Keith Huewen on BT Sport can hardly refer to Rossi without calling him 'The Goat'. Keith is also the same numpty who can't refer to Luca Marini without calling him 'Luca MarinihalfbrothertoValentinoRossi'.
As to who is the GOAT? We'll never know, it's all subjective, what do you base it on, wins, longevity, danger, survival, personality? Through every generation there will be a best of that generation, but this Goat thing, Colin Edwards carries the can for us being stuck with it now.
My personal Goat will always be Mick Doohan based on what he achieved after that 1992 crash & the long road back.
All this talk of personalities & mental toughness is kind of laughable, we have no way of knowing if the persona we see on TV is 'real'. Most of the riders from the 'Golden Era' would be slammed on social media if they were still around today. They were motorcycle racers, personality didn't count. Doohan often accused of being cold or standoffish later admitted it was his way to deal with being painfully shy.
Back in 2012 in Aragon, I was lucky enough to meet Cal & Dek Crutchlow in the Paddock. My Mrs & I asked them for a picture and they went out of their way to be ultra nice to us, brought us into the garage to have the pics taken with the bike and chatted anytime we met them over the weekend. A complete antithesis of the personality Cal portrays in front of the cameras. We'll never 'really' know these guys.
Casey Stoner is weak? Spend every weekend at work being bitched at by Rossi fans, booed on the podium in Donington Park and spat on in the paddock (Casey reported this himself) for simply doing what you're paid to do, beat everyone else. Perhaps you or I would also want out of a situation like that. That's not weakness.
Casey was an enigma, I'd call him THE Enigma. Take Casey of 2006 to 2012, stick him back in 1990 and he'd have been the perfect rider in the perfect genre.
If we're going to over analyse these guys based on their personalities, it's worth considering all the factors, little schooling (or lack thereof), non-conventional upbringing, surrounded by their people through their formative years. These guys haven't had the normal personality developments that most of us in the real world are afforded.
If Marc Marquez was to bathe is the juice of freshly squeezed cats while inserting Liqourice allsorts up his chuff singing "I hate you all!", I'd still pay to watch him monster that beast on track.
Greatest of all time? There's no such thing.
Ive been watching since early 2000's and I cant remember a time when the term Goat wasnt being applied to him. I was wondering when and who started using It. That makes sense that Edwards is the one. Noone is a bigger Bopper then him. If it wasnt for VR he wouldnt have had that factory spot for such a long time
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Edwards' Yamaha contract stipulated he received bonuses based on a complicated algorithm that took into account days per week, positioning of the son, quality of Michelin tires being developed, blood sacrifices, and how many loads from VR he either swallowed or took in the ....
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
