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Estoril 2011 Race

They should be much improved. Hayden said the new engine is going to make the turn-in much easier. Between the new chassis, new engine, and new electronics, there's a chance Ducati could be close to competitive.



Well the test doesn't look so promising now.



They seemed to have gained some pace (though some of this is probably down to the weather), but the Honda seems to have improved even more.



From what I've heard the chassis has only be designed slightly, so much will be down to the engine to rectify the understeer, but I can't see it matching the Honda on the straights any time soon.





EDIT: I've just seen that J4rno says there is no new chassis, just the flexi-package.
 
this about sums it up on the weekends complaints from SOME Riders



birtymotogp.....I asked Valentino Rossi tonight about complaints about Simoncelli's aggressive riding and he said young riders now are '.......'

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Well given that some recently believe that he was called a 'dog' thence if the young are '.......' would it not make him the chaser (given the animal heirachy where dogs are the sworn enemy of cats)?



I (seriously here as well) wonder if he thought of that aspect or whether it was just another 'off the cuff' remark that is even funnier given recent comments.



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For the most part this is definitely true, put a Schwantz or Doohan, Bayliss or Haga into this mix and some of them would retire early!



However, it could also be argued that these 800's make it very difficult to approach a race weekend, with SOOOO much pressure on electronics set-up, to win a near perfect race must be run, no longer can they afford to have 'battles' with a great number of passes at the sharp end, for more than ever it will lead to someone else having greater pace (and more fuel) left to go on and win.



A lot of riders have been quoted as saying that being held up in the opening laps now creates an impossible situation for victory. All of this anti-racing/dangerous riders mindset has been created in the 800cc era, and IMO the bikes have a lot to do with it, maybe they aren't just scared of racing, but more importantly racing which effectively removes their ability to win........



Talps, sit down for a moment please .......................... ok, sitting.









Good post and a new and interesting train of thought as many of the young guns have history in the feeder categories of hard racing yet now seem concerned. Whether it is due to the time lost whilst dicing causing the loss of a winning chance or whether some of the young are somewhat humbled by recent tragedies and showing concern for their safety, I do not know, but good solid post











Gaz
 
It's impossible to compare different eras, but I disagree.



Austin, with you there on Doohan, Schwantz, Bayliss and will throw in Rainey as well.



As for Haga, well I rate him the 'nearly man' so not sure he would be as competitive as those above (personal opinion only).









Gaz
 
It's just luck that Stoner didn't take someone out with one of his many crashes last year.

You can theorise all you like, please point out the crashes where this was the case. He was actually criticised on here last year for crashing on his own without any "pressure". As many have been saying on here for years the big problem for ducati since 2007 (other than stoner as you would no doubt say) has been tyres, and the difficulty keeping them warm. Most of stoner's crashes came when he backed off or was on cold tyres early, and talpa has recently posted that jb has said he wasn't sure there was much they could do with the current engine on the current tyres; I haven't seen the original.



You seem to be accusing him of being both careless and too careful simultaneously, a hard accusation to answer, and which might be considered prejudicial by some. The reality is that he has been fairly scrupulous about giving other riders room whilst racing, whether or not you like his demeanour, has not caused any other rider to crash in the last 4 seasons and in this one so far, and quick reactions by him have avoided accidents and possible injuries on at least one occasion which I won't mention in deference to talpa's blood pressure. He looked to me at jerez to have made some reaction to rossi's impending off also, if he had stayed on his line he would quite possibly have ridden over rossi, which I don't need to remind anyone has been the cause of most recent bike racing tragedies, albeit at higher speeds.
 
I was referencing jbs comments on the m1 engine......



As far as I know they are happy with the ducks donk now, with plenty of room for improvement....
 
Ok, so following the thread we can conclude that no camera will give a true picture of what is happening on track, so we may as well listen to it on the radio, yes?
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I found the race mostly boring. Apart from a few moments it was all very samey. I do like a bit of a fight, regardless of who wins. Oh well, onwards and upwards.
 
I was referencing jbs comments on the m1 engine......



As far as I know they are happy with the ducks donk now, with plenty of room for improvement....

Apologies, I read that post of yours quickly, and presumed current bigbang engine referred to ducati since he is now with them. Valentino has also been complaining about the difficulty of warming the tyres on the ducati as I recall though.
 
Valentino has also been complaining about the difficulty of warming the tyres on the ducati as I recall though.



Funny that, both he and Stoner couldn't get enough heat in the rubber last year as well. Stoner, Dovi and Sic also have complaints about heat in the front on the Honda this year. Suffice to say that Bridgestone is doing a piss-poor job at tyre supply, even with this new compound which everyone loves.....it apparently won't be available any time soon! One has to wonder if Bridgestone are just keeping up the facade of actually developing with this token gesture, which may or may not ever become available......I often wonder how many new compounds Bridgestone would have been/would be making available to their riders if they had some competition.
 
You can theorise all you like, please point out the crashes where this was the case. He was actually criticised on here last year for crashing on his own without any "pressure". As many have been saying on here for years the big problem for ducati since 2007 (other than stoner as you would no doubt say) has been tyres, and the difficulty keeping them warm. Most of stoner's crashes came when he backed off or was on cold tyres early, and talpa has recently posted that jb has said he wasn't sure there was much they could do with the current engine on the current tyres; I haven't seen the original.



You seem to be accusing him of being both careless and too careful simultaneously, a hard accusation to answer, and which might be considered prejudicial by some. The reality is that he has been fairly scrupulous about giving other riders room whilst racing, whether or not you like his demeanour, has not caused any other rider to crash in the last 4 seasons and in this one so far, and quick reactions by him have avoided accidents and possible injuries on at least one occasion which I won't mention in deference to talpa's blood pressure. He looked to me at jerez to have made some reaction to rossi's impending off also, if he had stayed on his line he would quite possibly have ridden over rossi, which I don't need to remind anyone has been the cause of most recent bike racing tragedies, albeit at higher speeds.



Consistently pushing too card is careless.
 
Well i'm suprised so many people seem uninspired by this weekends race, i thought it was superb and tense. For Dani to sit behind Jorge (with his record) even with the uncertainty of his shoulder and then pass cleanly and pull away with such class in the closing stages was like something you'd expect from Rossi in the 990 days. Brilliant. Now the Repsol Honda battle will become very interesting with Stoner having to come back and assert some authority, especially heading a track where both of the Spaniards have gone well in the past, great stuff. Spies had another disappointing weekend, but i still think he can recover to 5th if he gets on with it. Ducati (or Rossi) looks closer again so hopefully with a decent test they will be more in the mix from now on, i'm not convinced he can get into the title fight just yet but you can't count him out, especially not if they push on with development all season long. Simoncelli's crash was hardly surprisng given what he used to be like before his world championship year but i find it a bit frustrating, he is so good to watch and fast enough to be a factor so once he's out there is just one less thing to be excited about, i hope he can get some results that reflect his speed soon.
 
Well i'm suprised so many people seem uninspired by this weekends race, i thought it was superb and tense. For Dani to sit behind Jorge (with his record) even with the uncertainty of his shoulder and then pass cleanly and pull away with such class in the closing stages was like something you'd expect from Rossi in the 990 days. Brilliant. Now the Repsol Honda battle will become very interesting with Stoner having to come back and assert some authority, especially heading a track where both of the Spaniards have gone well in the past, great stuff. Spies had another disappointing weekend, but i still think he can recover to 5th if he gets on with it. Ducati (or Rossi) looks closer again so hopefully with a decent test they will be more in the mix from now on, i'm not convinced he can get into the title fight just yet but you can't count him out, especially not if they push on with development all season long. Simoncelli's crash was hardly surprisng given what he used to be like before his world championship year but i find it a bit frustrating, he is so good to watch and fast enough to be a factor so once he's out there is just one less thing to be excited about, i hope he can get some results that reflect his speed soon.



Good evaluation, I agree on everything. Just a little optimistic regarding Ducati I think, because after the testing their gap with the leaders has remained around 1 sec which is too much to hope to fight for the podium in such a competitive scenario, with 4 riders constantly very strong at the top (and this is the first year that Rossi is not in the top 4).

Rossi would have been 6th if Sic had not crashed. So this is the reality. I'm not expecting miracles from Ducati and Rossi in the next two-three races. The original prediction that he would not be able to mix it up with the best in the first half of the season seems confirmed.
 
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I have pain!???



wow I didn't even realize it
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Should I cry myself to sleep or something?
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Pain
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over what
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On Estoril 2010 ........... who the F@$% cares about Estoril 2010, that was ages ago
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folk are commenting on Simoncelli's current riding form.



Who cares? the same Lorenzo for the same race. and Stoner for sic's move on him in this race, which i didn't see anything wrong with that, if you saw, care to explain and inform us. I know it's because of your happiness that you smile this much.
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this about sums it up on the weekends complaints from SOME Riders



birtymotogp.....I asked Valentino Rossi tonight about complaints about Simoncelli's aggressive riding and he said young riders now are '.......'

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They really deserved it this week.
 
EDIT: I've just seen that J4rno says there is no new chassis, just the flexi-package.

Maybe Spalding and Kropotkin are just glossing over details, but they both say that it's a new chassis. And neither are ones to gloss over details. So, no offense to Jarno as I respect his opinion, I'll take the word of the guys who put their name to that information week-in, week-out.



Austin, with you there on Doohan, Schwantz, Bayliss and will throw in Rainey as well.



As for Haga, well I rate him the 'nearly man' so not sure he would be as competitive as those above (personal opinion only).









Gaz

To be honest, I didn't really notice Haga on that list. He's a name I wouldn't hold anywhere near such high regard. Great rider and all that, must admire his spirit, but nowhere near that level.



Funny that, both he and Stoner couldn't get enough heat in the rubber last year as well. Stoner, Dovi and Sic also have complaints about heat in the front on the Honda this year. Suffice to say that Bridgestone is doing a piss-poor job at tyre supply, even with this new compound which everyone loves.....it apparently won't be available any time soon! One has to wonder if Bridgestone are just keeping up the facade of actually developing with this token gesture, which may or may not ever become available......I often wonder how many new compounds Bridgestone would have been/would be making available to their riders if they had some competition.

The riders are asking for it to be released as soon as possible, but it sounds like it won't come out until next season. The spec tire has lowered the costs to teams and brought the racing closer together and has brought some consistency to the series. Arrab and I were discussing this, there are no longer Michelin circuits and Bridegstone circuits where depending on what tire you were on, you were subject to having no chance at a podium regardless of your form. Which is a good thing. But you can't tell me that development has continued on in anywhere near the same speed as it did during the tire war era. It's bittersweet. You have to like the level(ish) playing field it's produced, but I miss the war. Nostalgia more than anything, I'm sure.



Consistently pushing too card is careless.

Stoner has said that the Ducati didn't work while he was there unless it was being pushed 100 percent. He didn't have many options: win, finish seventh, fall off. And when those are your options at every race, you won't find yourself near a title fight if you settle for seventh.
 
Great victory from pedders but it looked like he had it well within him most of the race, was dissappointed by simoncelli, I think he will need to maybe take a little step back and get settled into a race at least before trying to win it, always hard at the speed these guys go off at.



Stoner didnt look at all comfatable all weekend, as for rossi no matter what he said he wont be happy about being pipped by dovi, who tbh is seems to riding this season like a man that knew before the season started that he would be out the door at the end of it.



Oh and wel done Cal Crutchlow hopefuly he can keep it going!
 
Pedrosa was visibly faster than Lorenzo during the entire race. He just waited for the right moment to pass him. He knew that if he does the move too soon, he could make a mistake. Anyway, it is incredible that he won in front of Lorenzo......this is a track where Jorje wins every time...like Qatar for Stoner and Mugello for Rossi. Simoncelli would have been very fast if he had managed to stay on 2 wheels for the fist 2-3 laps, until the tires came up to temperature. Unfortunately he crashed too soon to be able to shoe us his potential.
 
Dany did like lorenzo did to him in jerez last year.good race from dany(frankly iam not expecting this from dany).
 

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