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Ducati going traditional?

Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
Ducati's MotoGP pair coy on possible switch to traditional chassis





Both Ducati's MotoGP men Valentino Rossi and Nicky Hayden have been very shy about talking up (or down) a switch to a more traditional perimeter frame in order to try and eliminate the problem of not being able to get heat into the front tyre of the GP11.1 and GP11 respectively.



Neither the Italian or the American have said a Deltabox copy is definitely being looked into but nor have they categorically stated it isn't. Rossi has stated he has never asked for it but hasn't denied it exists while Hayden pleaded the fifth and wouldn't comment further than saying some stuff is on the drawing board but the way he said it gives rise to further speculation something is on the cards (especially when you look at the above photo).



"I've never asked Ducati for that, and I don't now if it would be the solution. I'm the rider, and the engineers must decide what to do for the future. We don't necessarily need a new chassis to solve our problems, though," said Rossi.



Rossi said from the day he first swung a leg over the GP11 at Valencia he was struggling for grip from both ends. The GP11.1 fixed the rear as it gave him some stability on corner exit but the front, especially when allied to the concrete compound Bridgestones, still remains a mystery on the brakes and when turning in.



At Mugello the team tinkered with the ride height by 20mm and on Sunday at the Sachsering, they altered the weight balance further which Rossi said was better but he still finished ninth behind Nicky Hayden and Alvaro Bautista, which tells you something.



Hayden, meanwhile, was faster in Germany this year than last but finds himself closer to the rear than before, beaten by a Suzuki at a left-handed track which he fully admits he loves. This coming weekend his goes to Laguna Seca and he sounds like he is dreading it: "It's going to be a long flight home…"



But the Kentuckian was more circumspect in his answers about a new chassis than the flat denials Rossi gave:



"There's always stuff on the drawing board, ideas are thrown up. That's one reason why they want me to ride this bike to see if it has any potential or if they need to give up on it. Of course they're looking at a few little things, Deltabox and this and that. We've kicked around some ideas," said Hayden.
 
Should I provide a link to when I said this might happen last year? Ducamaha here we come.



So J4rno, still routine development? Nothing special, move along, nothing to see here?
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12342:Ducati engineer.jpg]



Caption this photo





....... dude, would you like a camera, or maybe i can show you the schematics.
 

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Should I provide a link to when I said this might happen last year? Ducamaha here we come.



So J4rno, still routine development? Nothing special, move along, nothing to see here?
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that doesnt matter tho jumks more riders at the front week in week out is better in the long run.



if it happens hopefully it should benefit both riders.... i want a competative 2012, i think everyone does
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Should I provide a link to when I said this might happen last year? Ducamaha here we come.



So J4rno, still routine development? Nothing special, move along, nothing to see here?
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Introducing the Ducati GPRcM112
 
I know the Japanese engineers have the delta frame on lock, but coulnd't Ducati get pretty close with Burgess's input? Dunno, just thinking out loud.

Will the delta frame cure the issue?

It would seem they want Nicky's input at Laguna on the GP11.1.46 so his weekend is pretty much screwed....Damn!!!!

Jaz..I agree, having more guys contesting 1st place would be good.
 
I know the Japanese engineers have the delta frame on lock, but coulnd't Ducati get pretty close with Burgess's input? Dunno, just thinking out loud.

Will the delta frame cure the issue?

It would seem they want Nicky's input at Laguna on the GP11.1.46 so his weekend is pretty much screwed....Damn!!!!

Jaz..I agree, having more guys contesting 1st place would be good.

I don't see why not, Burgess prob has Yamaha schematics in his back pocket.
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Seriously, does anybody will think Ducati will not move heaven and Earth?



Its a start to the cure. That is selling out their entire DNA for one man.
 
I don't see why not, Burgess prob has Yamaha schematics in his back pocket.
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Seriously, does anybody will think Ducati will not move heaven and Earth?



Its a start to the cure. That is selling out their entire DNA for one man.



Not really selling out for 1 man if they make their bike competitive...which apart from Casey, hasn't been anywhere near the top since 2006. They would to be really daft to try and continue flogging the dead horse would they not? If Rossi cant make ride the thing to a podium, who else is realistically gonna want to try? There aren't many Casey Stoners kicking about thats for sure!



c'mon Jums, you know this!
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I don't see why not, Burgess prob has Yamaha schematics in his back pocket.
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Seriously, does anybody will think Ducati will not move heaven and Earth?



Its a start to the cure. That is selling out their entire DNA for one man.



Not really selling out for 1 man if they make their bike competitive...which apart from Casey, hasn't been anywhere near the top since 2006. They would to be really daft to try and continue flogging the dead horse would they not? If Rossi cant make ride the thing to a podium, who else is realistically gonna want to try? There aren't many Casey Stoners kicking about thats for sure!



c'mon Jums, you know this!
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I don't see why not, Burgess prob has Yamaha schematics in his back pocket.
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Seriously, does anybody will think Ducati will not move heaven and Earth?



Its a start to the cure. That is selling out their entire DNA for one man.





they way i see it its not heaven and earth for one guy!



ducati should have tried an alternative sooner way sooner.... still i think stoner would have been quicker but like i say at what cost? the risk of front end washout every corner if he was there this season?



other manufacturers seem to ramp up peformance every year but ducati are now sitting the otherside of that brick wall.



i really hope they will admit defeat and try something new, this CF is giving them no advantage infact doing the oposite and they are wasting way to much money.
 
I know the Japanese engineers have the delta frame on lock, but coulnd't Ducati get pretty close with Burgess's input? Dunno, just thinking out loud.

Will the delta frame cure the issue?

It would seem they want Nicky's input at Laguna on the GP11.1.46 so his weekend is pretty much screwed....Damn!!!!

Jaz..I agree, having more guys contesting 1st place would be good.



Depends on what issues they are having. When the manufacturers design a chassis with feel, it generally means the chassis has more flex. On what axes and at what rates I do not know, but when the chassis flexes it absorbs a lot of the mechanical energy that would otherwise go to the tires. If the tires aren't doing enough work, they don't generate enough heat.



We do have some pretty good info regarding the Ducati chassis though. Casey says the best thing about the Honda is that you can feel the front end stepping out of line, and you can pull it back. Both Nicky, Rossi, and Stoner have previously said that when the Ducati goes, it goes without much warning. Imo, that means the CF headstock either doesn't have the ability to flex torsionally (twist) or Ducati don't have the expertise to make carbon fiber flex torsionally. The waters are muddied by what Spies told us though. Rossi has always liked a soft tire on the front b/c it give feel during braking. Ben is riding Rossi's chassis development with the flexible front end. He says it makes it feel like he has a soft tire on. Imo, the chassis flexes vertically and it absorbs the vertical loads on the tire during braking. So what problems are they hoping to fix? One in particular or all of them at once?



Good luck figuring out how this is going to develop.
 

Tripple.
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Yeah, I hear you man. You're right. My post was mainly a dig at those who continue to think that Rossi doesn't need the best tool out there to display his talent. For year's I've been reading how supernatural he is, and given the chance, he could ride a snail to the championship. I felt otherwise, and this year is vindication. Again, package matters!
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