Ducati confirms carbon fibre swingarm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Mar 4 2009, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If they came out with a carbon Hossack type front end I would go completely bonkers.

I'm pretty sure carbon wheels will debut at Qatar free practice. The process has been vastly improved in recent years.

Correct me if i'mwrong, but i think i read that carbon wheels are banned in motogp.

How bout carbin fiber balls for Stoner?

Carbon swingarm makes sence for the Ducati most of all i think.
As i've said before i'm no expert and these are just assumtions.
First of all lowering unsprung weight must be great help for setting up rear suspention and the sensitive electronics sensors reading what the rearwheel is doing.The same goes for the flex in the material.My guess is that the knowledge they got from developing the carbon frame and the tools(computerprograms and help from Ferrari or whatever)also helped to develope this swingarm.As i've understood the common thing is to create flex in aluminium swingarms to suit different tracks but that must be alot of guessing and handcraft to get that "correct flex".Maybe Ducati and who ever they work with has the tools now to be much more accurate in getting the right amount of flex.
I think Ducati are quite a bit ahead of the japanese competition in this sense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Craig3089 @ Mar 4 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Correct me if i'mwrong, but i think i read that carbon wheels are banned in motogp.
We are both wrong. They are currently used in MotoGP and have been on the Desmo since at least 2004.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Mar 4 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Carbon swingarm makes sence for the Ducati most of all i think.
As i've said before i'm no expert and these are just assumtions.
First of all lowering unsprung weight must be great help for setting up rear suspention and the sensitive electronics sensors reading what the rearwheel is doing.The same goes for the flex in the material.My guess is that the knowledge they got from developing the carbon frame and the tools(computerprograms and help from Ferrari or whatever)also helped to develope this swingarm.As i've understood the common thing is to create flex in aluminium swingarms to suit different tracks but that must be alot of guessing and handcraft to get that "correct flex".Maybe Ducati and who ever they work with has the tools now to be much more accurate in getting the right amount of flex.
I think Ducati are quite a bit ahead of the japanese competition in this sense.
I dont think flex is needed in the swingarm .Most seem quite heavily braced to prevent flex. Not sure if this is the case with the duc as it has the carbon frame also. I think there in un-charted territory so were all guessing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 4 2009, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont think flex is needed in the swingarm .Most seem quite heavily braced to prevent flex. Not sure if this is the case with the duc as it has the carbon frame also. I think there in un-charted territory so were all guessing.
Yamaha said they wanted some flex in the new swingarm, as the 2008 was too stiff.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Mar 4 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha said they wanted some flex in the new swingarm, as the 2008 was too stiff.
i suppose it depends on the amount of flex elsewhere. On the older steel framed bikes they tended to have under braced or over braced swingarms, that seemed to go when alloy beam frames were being used. I remember the ducati Single sided swingarm in wsb had to much flex and they wanted to go for the more conventional 2 sided type but were not allowed as the road bikes had single sided . I suppose it all depends on how much flex is in the new carbon frame as to weather they need it in the swingarm also.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Mar 4 2009, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm, maybe not, but how about a carbon fibre backbone for pedro?


The dude is already a robot!!! He needs something like an emotion graft!!!

I think that side flex is the purpose. Up down no flex is wanted hence the tall profile.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Mar 4 2009, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The dude is already a robot!!! He needs something like an emotion graft!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 4 2009, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont think flex is needed in the swingarm .Most seem quite heavily braced to prevent flex. Not sure if this is the case with the duc as it has the carbon frame also. I think there in un-charted territory so were all guessing.
I meant flex sideways when the bike is leaned over and the suspension is out of the game almost.
I saw a bit on eurosport when that big guy with beard and glasses were explaining"the black art of creating flex in the swingarm"That's what i meant.Can't rememeber his name...

Kevin Cameron probably.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Anders GUZZI @ Mar 4 2009, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I meant flex sideways when the bike is leaned over and the suspension is out of the game almost.
I saw a bit on eurosport when that big guy with beard and glasses were explaining"the black art of creating flex in the swingarm"That's what i meant.Can't rememeber his name...
that would be mr Julian Ryder. i love those tech bits. Jurgen van den Goorbergh used to do the tech bit of the show years ago. cant remember if that was eurosport of channel 5 before. but your right it is a black art. we tend to compare these parts against the parts on our road bikes or a 2 stroke single enduro bike if your barrymachine but fact is there prototypes so trying all sorts including things that dont make a lot of sense or go against what we have learned.

Yes Julian Ryder,thanks.
I've also heard others talk about it.Anyway carbonfibre can probarbly make them be more accurate what ever they want to do.I think.

Once the bike is leaned over the 'pivot' of the swing arm and chassis as well as the intrinsic value of the bike to 'dampen' or 'spring' will help you get traction around the corners.

Whilst weight saving was a consideration with the CF swingarm the main reason for going with it was its 'dampening' properties.

Aluminium is good at flexing and helps the 'sprung' element of suspension but it has no 'dampening' properties. So the material can not dispurse the energy stored in the compression ie spring.

CF on the other hand has a much higher ability and propensity to 'dampen' as well as 'spring' So when Casey throws it over and gives it a squirt the bike begins to load up and 'spring' but now they have CF the actual material is capable of dampening the vibrations which should give a smoother platform for him to drive from.

The second massive advantage with the CF is the ability to weave it to your needs. We all know its a fibre, consisting of several layers stuck together (think laminated timber) well they now have the opportunity to combine the CF layers with layers of other viscoelastic materials, in turn increasing the dampening potential and possibly manipulating the amount of flex and spring they require.

If they can master it (which seems to be the case) then it will be a massive advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 5 2009, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>we tend to compare these parts against the parts on our road bikes or a 2 stroke single enduro bike if your barrymachine but fact is there prototypes so trying all sorts including things that dont make a lot of sense or go against what we have learned.

Half the reason they ave gone CF is pretty much because its not so "black art"

Mind you I bet their new swingarm is a piece of art ..... and it is probably black

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 5 2009, 06:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Half the reason they ave gone CF is pretty much because its not so "black art"
Hate to say you're right. Pressed aluminum is tougher to configure than carbon.
Carbon is just geometry & thickness.
Aluminum is chemistry.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Mar 5 2009, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hate to say you're right. Pressed aluminum is tougher to configure than carbon.
Carbon is just geometry & thickness.
Aluminum is chemistry.


Careful Clark! .... Rog. will be onto you next! ..... quick! make up a fairytale to placate him.


Wait since I could be blamed for your indiscretion ( stating a pretty well known fact ) here I'll do it for you: ...........

" I hear that it was the old beer left over in the cans, that they made their old swingarm from, that made it wobble" .... but since you can't buy beer in CF cans its stable ..... ...... There you go, ...... Rog. will take that as Gospel cos it's a fairytale

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (is200 @ Mar 5 2009, 05:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whilst weight saving was a consideration with the CF swingarm the main reason for going with it was its 'dampening' properties.

Aluminium is good at flexing and helps the 'sprung' element of suspension but it has no 'dampening' properties. So the material can not dispurse the energy stored in the compression ie spring.

I'm not 100% sure but I think that's wrong. AFIAK aluminium is a very good dampner, but a bad spring. That is as opoesed to steel that is very good spring but bad dampner.
And titanium is absolutly usless as it is way to much spring. To the degree that it has little or no success even in bicycle frames.
Aluminium is considered av very "dead" metal. It absorbs the energy as heat instead of absobing it as static energy released as return spring effect.

I know little about the basic properties of carbon fiber. I know that when crushed it's a fantastic dampner, but that's hardly relevant here.

The nice thing with carbon is, as you say, that to a certain degree you can design dampenning and spring properties into the completed part.