Dovi and Petrucci

Segfault · Apr 12, 2017

Dovizioso is a nice fella, but he got it wrong this time. Blaming Petrucci for crash ... Dude, if someone is in front of you then you pass him - if you are faster. Moaning Petrucci's weight gives him unfair advantage is just plain wrong. Petrucci was doing the best he could do considering his tire conditions, fuel situation, whatnot. It is your problem to keep it safe behind him.

Hollywood · Apr 12, 2017

there were 5 bikes fighting for the same position going into the corner, petrucci was late braking into the corner and went wide, Dovi tried the same thing and was forced off line, and Lowes took him out... this is what happens when you have 5 bikes running close and fighting over the same position.

Ducati goofed up in the free practices and Q1, thus forcing dovi to start behind slower bikes... his teams strategy let him down more then any other rider last weekend.

JKant · Apr 12, 2017

Hollywood said:
there were 5 bikes fighting for the same position going into the corner, petrucci was late braking into the corner and went wide, Dovi tried the same thing and was forced off line, and Lowes took him out...

A.Espargaro. Lowes retired with a gearbox problem I think.

this is what happens when you have 5 bikes running close and fighting over the same position.

Two weeks after-school Moto3 remedial classes for all involved!!

Hollywood · Apr 12, 2017

JKant said:
A.Espargaro. Lowes retired with a gearbox problem I think.

my mistake, you are right

Gaz · Apr 12, 2017

Interesting point with this one as I saw it was that Dovi seemed to outbrake himself and took evasive action, caught and started to come back and Asparagus just crashed and took him out. My first and honest thought was target fixation by Asparagus but then, which the Michelin fronts you never know as the lose was typical of all others.

That said, I have found it interesting that Dovi has not been as challenged in this forum or elsewhere with his apportioning of blame to another rider whereas JL has been so challenged and yet both made initial comments shifting responsibility

JKant · Apr 12, 2017

Gaz said:
That said, I have found it interesting that Dovi has not been as challenged in this forum or elsewhere with his apportioning of blame to another rider whereas JL has been so challenged and yet both made initial comments shifting responsibility

I don't think Lorenzo blamed Iannone for the crash per se. His statement was fairly circumspect. He's not the most fluent English speaker but his description sounds mostly like a racing incident (which it was).

"Iannone I think slowed down a bit, maybe too much, I don't why and I was maybe a little too fast and altogether make my front wheel touch".

His thowing the bike to the fwoor wuffly made for bad optics though.

Dovizioso, in contrast, out-and-out accused Petrucci of 'riding in a bad way' and being ultimately responsible for Espargaro wiping him out.

Questionable perhaps, (unlike Lorenzo's relatively bland statement) but for the most part nobody knows what he was talking about because the camera kept panning away to the Zarco-Bautista-Pedrosa scrap ahead spliced in with bits of the Rossi-Crutchlow synchronized show.

What was seen was mostly prosaic. Petrucci was maybe a little ragged but that shouldn't have stopped a veteran rider with better pace on a flowing track like that. Dovizioso's description of Petrucci's riding doesn't help his case either.

"When I was behind Danilo and he had finished completely the rear tyre, he was riding in a bad way."

"He stopped a lot of riders, braking in a strange way, I think too much."

"Everybody tries to use his own style, but in the way he uses it, it was very bad."

"I tried to overtake him inside and he braked later and closed the door."

"Like this it's very bad because you don't give the possibility to do something."

"You can't brake like him, he's heavier and he's able to brake harder, this not fair. It wasn't over the limit, but this is not fair."

Gaz · Apr 13, 2017

JKant said:
I don't think Lorenzo blamed Iannone for the crash per se. His statement was fairly circumspect. He's not the most fluent English speaker but his description sounds mostly like a racing incident (which it was).

Initial reported comments of JL indicated that he laid blame squarely on AI but those comments have significantly altered, dare I say after seeing a video of the issue although his body language to me indicated that he felt some blame.

But yep, often the language barrier is or can be misinterpreted (sometimes deliberately) by people who go by journalists.

As for the bike drop, well I said elsewhere that it is much ado about nothing as when you watch the on bike video it does seem to be an extremely long time for the marshalls to arrive on the scene. Whilst in reality it was around 8 seconds, as anyone would know that when you are waiting, each second feels like a minute plus they did seem to be coming from behind JL whereas his whole view was an opposite direction.

As I said, much ado.

As for the Dovi comments, I just find it interesting that in this forum and other places, JL say X and is often roundly condemned, but in this cas AD says Y and it goes through to the keeper. Kind of reinforces one's thinking.

Furiosa · Apr 13, 2017

Gaz said:
I just find it interesting that in this forum and other places, JL say X and is often roundly condemned, but in this cas AD says Y and it goes through to the keeper. Kind of reinforces one's thinking.

This. I don't get the vilification that JL gets. Sure, he's a bit weird, maybe a bit humourless but you know what, every single one of them on that grid is a bit weird in some way.

It's not like Rossi's not weird.

Even Cuntslow doesn't get the slating that JLo seems to get and he actually says totally cunty things!

JKant · Apr 13, 2017

Furiosa said:
It's not like Rossi's not weird.

On our team we just look for the number 46 in things and say “it’s a sign” – it’s kind of a game but unbelievable how many times it appears!

One superstition Valentino does not do anymore is when he got new leathers he used to go to pit lane and lie on his back and one of us would pull him along a bit to scratch the leathers to ward off crashes (Colin still does this). So the rider went out and did a couple of laps and crashed. When he came back to the garage all dusty he said “that doesn’t work” that was the last time we did that!

- Alex Briggs

Segfault · Apr 13, 2017

Gaz said:
That said, I have found it interesting that Dovi has not been as challenged in this forum or elsewhere with his apportioning of blame to another rider whereas JL has been so challenged and yet both made initial comments shifting responsibility

Basically, you are saying I didn't post here. Thanks.

Gaz · Apr 13, 2017

Furiosa said:
This. I don't get the vilification that JL gets. Sure, he's a bit weird, maybe a bit humourless but you know what, every single one of them on that grid is a bit weird in some way.

Funny you say that as I often read comments that JL is actually an extremely pleasant guy with a good sense of humour, just that he is incredibly shy and somewhat introverted until he gets comfortable with the person/people.

Of course one of the issues is that generally we only get to see them at a track and just as I used to say about Stoner and others, the track is their workplace and so like many people at work, we (they) do not suffer fools or interruptions well.

Have always found it intriguing that we can 'judge' (and trust me, I do just as I am sure others do) a rider based on what we see on screen or read in the press, whilst we never get close enough to know the true person.

Segfault said:
Basically, you are saying I didn't post here. Thanks.

Yours was the first comment I had seen in any of 4 racing forums relating to the Dovi incident which backs up my point I have always held, that the reaction depends on the perpetrator of the action

Jumkie · Apr 13, 2017

Segfault said:
Basically, you are saying I didn't post here. Thanks.

To be fair, your post is similar to a tree falling in the woods.

Gaz · Apr 13, 2017

Jumkie said:
To be fair, your post is similar to a tree falling in the woods.

Did it fall or was it cut down?

danski · Apr 13, 2017

Gaz said:
Did it fall or was it cut down?

Maybe it was extreme weather, or Dutch elm disease. Plane crash, many possible causes, don't blame the lumberjack:fishing1:

Gaz · Apr 13, 2017

Daniboy said:
Maybe it was extreme weather, or Dutch elm disease. Plane crash, many possible causes, don't blame the lumberjack:fishing1:

It is possible that it wasn't heard as it fell on Fronts that Michelin had hidden in the forest not realising logging was going on

MdubSTYLIE · Apr 13, 2017

Gaz said:
Did it fall or was it cut down?

Let just hope it wasn't a sns rubber tree. Those things are becoming endangered.

Gaz · Apr 13, 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:
Let just hope it wasn't a sns rubber tree. Those things are becoming endangered.

Depends on the bark though man.

I keep hearing that harder bark with softer centre seems to be the popular choice of some so they may start a plantation

JKant · Apr 15, 2017

Gaz said:
As for the bike drop, well I said elsewhere that it is much ado about nothing as when you watch the on bike video it does seem to be an extremely long time for the marshalls to arrive on the scene. Whilst in reality it was around 8 seconds, as anyone would know that when you are waiting, each second feels like a minute plus they did seem to be coming from behind JL whereas his whole view was an opposite direction.

As I said, much ado.

Erm.. not really.

While I sincerely hope he does well or if not gets Ducati to release him to ride a Suzuki, his tossing the bike away was rather bad form. While he's clearly frustrated, a marshal was right there, in his eyeline, just a couple of yards away. (See 0:10-0:16)

https://vimeo.com/213370776

Gaz · Apr 15, 2017

JKant said:
Erm.. not really.

While I sincerely hope he does well or if not gets Ducati to release him to ride a Suzuki, his tossing the bike away was rather bad form. While he's clearly frustrated, a marshal was right there, in his eyeline, just a couple of yards away. (See 0:10-0:16)

https://vimeo.com/213370776

Of course you would say bad form .......................

Check again.

Marshall is around 4 - 5 metres away from a guy looking diagonally away whilst this same guy has on a bike helmet.

Marshall was likely in his blind spot

Suggest you do a test.

Place your helmet on (can be a car or bike helmet)
Concentrate on holding the bike up with one hand
Have somone walk to you from a round 45 to 55 degree angle of vision (remembering that you have been 13 or so seconds already).

For mine, once again, Lorenzo did not see that marshall coming (you can see a lot of visor and fully read the monster logo so the helmet was more facing the camera than turned)

IMO, it is all much ado about nothing as people look for reasons to besmirch Lorenzo whilst applying pass marks to others

JKant · Apr 15, 2017

Gaz said:
Of course you would say bad form .......................

Check again.

Marshall is around 4 - 5 metres away from a guy looking diagonally away whilst this same guy has on a bike helmet.

Marshall was likely in his blind spot

Oh come now, this isn't me being biased! Blind spot at 45 deg?? The marshal is a big orange blob right there!

Most motorcycle helmets (never worn a driving one) have a horizontal vision range of about 110 deg (55 deg off-axis). A racing helmet with less than that for a sport where peripheral vision is exceptionally important doesn't make sense.

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