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Dingo Doovers and the Deconstruction of Casey Stoner

some guy named Bayliss sold a couple bikes i'm sure
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Speaking of... Bet even Troy is thinking to himself "crikey this kidsa ....."
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Aug 29 2009, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>some guy named Bayliss sold a couple bikes i'm sure
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Speaking of... Bet even Troy is thinking to himself "crikey this kidsa ....."
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Funny ...... mate.
 
ok stoner in 2007 had an power/speed advantage, BUT it was stoner who was taking advantage of this and bringing the bike home to win races, there are plenty of riders who could have been signed and ducati would not have a championship.

YES the ducati had good electronics otherwise the bike wouldnt have been rideable and casey wouldnt have finished as many races, we all know how crazy that bike is when the electronics are not to the riders liking but there is nothing wrong with that it's not like they were cheating or anything.

if you do some digging you will find that it wasnt just the engine design that was making it so fast out of the corners and down the straight's, it had a massive amount to do with shell, i read an article and its mad horsepower had alot to do with the way shell mixed the fuel.

it wasnt just manufacturers that caught up in 2008 it also had alot to do with shell being asked to make less potent fuel and better oils (for less friction) as ducati told them they wouldnt mind giving up 5 or more horespower in return for more reliability.

but at the end of the day stoner still had to ride the bike, he was the one crossing the line gaining the points to give ducati there much wanted championship.
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I have to agree with Curve here, what a bunch of rubbish! comparing CS to the Chamberlain's story is more than ridiculous. A persecuted family who suffered criminal charges and jail terms compared to a spoilt mulit-million dollar motor racing star, come on.

This is pushing parochial support beyond the relms of absurdity, even the yanks here wouldn't go this far....I know us Aussie's don't have much to cheer for at present (Ashes???!!!) but farck this, I'm embarrassed by this thread.

If Casey cops it from the overseas press then it won't be anyone's fault but his, he has all the money and support to get the best advice on PR available, and time and time again he either fails to heed their advice or doesn't seek it.
Likening it to the Chamberlains is yet another slap in the face for that family who certainly didn't choose and seek out their fate.

Schwantz was just expressing his expert opinion as an ex-world champ and one of the best riders the world has seen.

That post on CS being Ducati's meal ticket is about as far from the truth as Uluru is from the Ocean if your an ant. This is more ridiculous than what any Rossi fans come out with here, so where are all the Racing True Fan experts sticking up for common sense now?
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Aug 29 2009, 02:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I took your comment as Ducati as a company not Marlboro Ducati the race team. I would agree that he is the success of the race team, but not the company. It would be safe to say that 69 is better for sales than 27.
So winning the MotoGP Championship means nothing to sales? Ummm what the .... are they all spending millions to win for? They should just get a bunch of famous dudes to ride around at the back. Maybe they could chuck Schui on then they will sell more bikes in Germany. Maybe they could get Beckham to ride it then they will sell more bikes in the UK. Hey maybe they could get Bin Laden to ride it then they will sell more bikes in the Muslim world.

Ducati's in Australia were rare, now every where you turn you see a Ducati. I remember reading that Australia was Ducati's second most important market.

The only safe thing to say is that you are full of it.
 
Talpa, I see that the analogy is beyond you. I am comparing the press reaction to the circumstances, not the circumstances themselves. Obviously!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Aug 29 2009, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So winning the MotoGP Championship means nothing to sales? Ummm what the .... are they all spending millions to win for? They should just get a bunch of famous dudes to ride around at the back. Maybe they could chuck Schui on then they will sell more bikes in Germany. Maybe they could get Beckham to ride it then they will sell more bikes in the UK. Hey maybe they could get Bin Laden to ride it then they will sell more bikes in the Muslim world.

Ducati's in Australia were rare, now every where you turn you see a Ducati. I remember reading that Australia was Ducati's second most important market.

The only safe thing to say is that you are full of it.

TB's three WSBK titles had a bit to do with it as well me thinks......very nicely priced beautiful new 1098, 848 and Hyper-motard also had a bit to do with it me thinks as well. Jap bikes getting uglier by the year also an aid.....Exotic Italian appeal?

Lots of factors at work in these markets, not discrediting the world title and CS they certainly help and/or hinder every time they win or lose, but silly to say is the Ducks financial be all and end all.

I also highly doubt that Australia is Ducati's or any other Motorcycle manufacturers 2nd most important market
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Aug 28 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati's in Australia were rare, now every where you turn you see a Ducati. I remember reading that Australia was Ducati's second most important market.

The only safe thing to say is that you are full of it.

Not any more but it was said in the late 80's maybe even early 90's that outside of Japan, more Ducati's got sold in Australia than other countries.

Now times have changed greatly and as Talpa suggests or aguues depending on your take (
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) Australia is well below second in the Ducati market.





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 28 2009, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>TB's three WSBK titles had a bit to do with it as well me thinks......very nicely priced beautiful new 1098, 848 and Hyper-motard also had a bit to do with it me thinks as well. Jap bikes getting uglier by the year also an aid.....Exotic Italian appeal?

Lots of factors at work in these markets, not discrediting the world title and CS they certainly help and/or hinder every time they win or lose, but silly to say is the Ducks financial be all and end all.

Isn't the fact that 'nicely priced' and 'beautiful' are so individual one of lifes little certainties.

Whilst you laud the beauty of the bikes you mention, to me they look the same as those ugly Japanese bikes to which you refer (certainly, less so the Hyper - but that is ugly) and in Australia the commonality of the Ducati now puts them firmly into the Japanese market arena. Yes, they hold good value (so do a number of makes) by comparison, but for mine the lure of a Ducati has diminished somewhat and as someone who has always liked them, I now doubt I ever will but a new Ducati.

Now, if you want to talk beautiful Ducatis, talk teh original Hailwoods, the SS750/900 Green frames, 750F1 series (Laguna Seca, Montjuich), SL650, 851/888, they are things of beauty in my opinion. The modern stuff to me is borderline crud and crap as the look is all to common (sound, well different, but looks)





Gaz
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Aug 28 2009, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>racing toe to toe with rossi in 2006. Hogshit - ducati gave him the best electronics and 12 km/ hr on extra top speed - when rossi could catch him in the bends all he did was open the throttle on the straights. Better choices for ducati 2009/ 2010 almost anybody in the top 10. - who will be available for al races without the late summer siesta for whatever reason
Ducati and Yamaha had the same electronics package - Magneti Marelli!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 29 2009, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not any more but it was said in the late 80's maybe even early 90's that outside of Japan, more Ducati's got sold in Australia than other countries.

Now times have changed greatly and as Talpa suggests or aguues depending on your take (
<
) Australia is well below second in the Ducati market.







Isn't the fact that 'nicely priced' and 'beautiful' are so individual one of lifes little certainties.

Whilst you laud the beauty of the bikes you mention, to me they look the same as those ugly Japanese bikes to which you refer (certainly, less so the Hyper - but that is ugly) and in Australia the commonality of the Ducati now puts them firmly into the Japanese market arena. Yes, they hold good value (so do a number of makes) by comparison, but for mine the lure of a Ducati has diminished somewhat and as someone who has always liked them, I now doubt I ever will but a new Ducati.

Now, if you want to talk beautiful Ducatis, talk teh original Hailwoods, the SS750/900 Green frames, 750F1 series (Laguna Seca, Montjuich), SL650, 851/888, they are things of beauty in my opinion. The modern stuff to me is borderline crud and crap as the look is all to common (sound, well different, but looks)





Gaz

As I said Gaz, lots of factors involved in these markets, the point was about racing and its direct reflection on bike sales. I believe the original outrageous statement was based on CS and how he is solely responsible for Ducati's recent sales success

Of course we both have our opinions on Bike desirability, but the Borderline Crud and crap view is certainly disputed by the positive spike in Duck sales of the 1098 and 848-worldwide, but of course the majority isn't always right.......
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 28 2009, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Casey cops it from the overseas press then it won't be anyone's fault but his, he has all the money and support to get the best advice on PR available, and time and time again he either fails to heed their advice or doesn't seek it.
I would be interested to know of any rider in the past 10 years whom you think would have generated a widespread positive response by defeating rossi for the world championship. Nicky hayden also inspired considerable animosity, which still persists going by a recent post from you, and a more humble, likeable and all round decent bloke it would be difficult to find; he also has been noteworthy for not making negative comments in the media sometimes despite strong provocation.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Aug 29 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would be interested to know of any rider in the past 10 years whom you think would have generated a widespread positive response by defeating rossi for the world championship. Nicky hayden also inspired considerable animosity, which still persists going by a recent post from you, and a more humble, likeable and all round decent bloke it would be difficult to find; he also has been noteworthy for not making negative comments in the media sometimes despite strong provocation.

You'll have to remind me of the animosity I have shown to Nicky as I can't recall any....other than the 'Bradbury' line which was purely tongue in cheek, I've always liked Nicky for exactly the reasons mentioned above.

You do have a good point here though, not may of Rossi's challengers have been even close to his level of popularity by the majority, but they have retained good support as I reminded Jum check out the 'Faster' DVD again for Biaggi's popularity at the time at Mugello.

If Loris had done it in 06 he probably wouldn't have suffered the heat. Especially with performances like Sepang 06 and his general likability and skill on the Duck that year. And the man who knocked him out-Gibbers, was quite popular due to his years of nothing only to rise to the top, Barry Sheene wasn't a big fan though! However incidents Qatar 04 and Herez 05 certainly sent him on a spiraling downward slope.

TB if successful in GP would have been another who would have escaped the wrath, that no-nonsense, 110 percent, throw it all on the line attitude built from years of struggle in Oz only to gain a break in his late twenties and go on to be a world beater in his late 30's.
On Track-Off Track, TB was great and a great ambassador for Australia......hopefully if hes chatting with CS some of this may rub off.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Aug 29 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would be interested to know of any rider in the past 10 years whom you think would have generated a widespread positive response by defeating rossi for the world championship. Nicky hayden also inspired considerable animosity, which still persists going by a recent post from you, and a more humble, likeable and all round decent bloke it would be difficult to find; he also has been noteworthy for not making negative comments in the media sometimes despite strong provocation.

You'll have to remind me of the animosity I have shown to Nicky as I can't recall any....other than the 'Bradbury' line which was purely tongue in cheek, I've always liked Nicky for exactly the reasons mentioned above.

You do have a good point here though, not may of Rossi's challengers have been even close to his level of popularity by the majority, but they have retained good support as I reminded Jum check out the 'Faster' DVD again for Biaggi's popularity at the time at Mugello.

If Loris had done it in 06 he probably wouldn't have suffered the heat. Especially with performances like Sepang 06 and his general likability and skill on the Duck that year. And the man who knocked him out-Gibbers, was quite popular due to his years of nothing only to rise to the top, Barry Sheene wasn't a big fan though! However incidents Qatar 04 and Herez 05 certainly sent him on a spiraling downward slope.

TB if successful in GP would have been another who would have escaped the wrath, that no-nonsense, 110 percent, throw it all on the line attitude built from years of struggle in Oz only to gain a break in his late twenties and go on to be a world beater in his late 30's.
On Track-Off Track, TB was great and a great ambassador for Australia......hopefully if hes chatting with CS some of this may rub off.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Aug 29 2009, 05:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You'll have to remind me of the animosity I have shown to Nicky as I can't recall any....other than the 'Bradbury' line which was purely tongue in cheek, I've always liked Nicky for exactly the reasons mentioned above.

If Loris had done it in 06 he probably wouldn't have suffered the heat. Especially with performances like Sepang 06 and his general likability and skill on the Duck that year.
I was referring to the bradbury comment, in the context of widespread continuing anti-nicky posting, admittedly more elsewhere than here, and not that I can recall otherwise by you.

Capirossi is the obvious answer to my question, and I was going to edit my post to say this if you had not replied. The Italian press at least would I think have been happy for an italian to win on an italian bike, and this may also be why they (foolishly in retrospect) replaced loris with marco melandri, although at the time I among many others thought marco would be a real threat. As I have said before, ducati's position in trying to beat rossi is basically untenable, an italian company providing the weapon to take out an absolute national hero. Bayliss had the advantage of being 10 or more years older than stoner when he made it on to the world stage, and fan though I am the likelihood of him beating rossi in a large number of races was always fairly small. Biaggi I think went through a similar process as his career evolved to stoner so far, except for starting out with much more popularity.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Aug 29 2009, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati and Yamaha had the same electronics package - Magneti Marelli!

And I had the same cpu in my laptop as a few world famous artists, I'm not sure that make me a world class song writer though.

In 2006/2007 Ducati took their "electronics" programming in house and together with Ferrari they made some interesting and innovative improvements compared to Yamaha.
 
I believe that Casey has as strong a desire as ever to win the world championship again, still has a working relationship with Ducati and is not psyched out by Rossi. Even if chronic fatigue can be induced by pressure, it is not the same as being psyched-out or having a nervous breakdown. It is a physical condition that needs time and rest to resolve. Give the fella a break and hope that he comes back sooner than later.


Well, what do you know- he,s back , he wants to win, and the break was the right strategy.

................and Kevin Schwantz is no doctor. Enough said!

Now who here is willing to put their hand up and admit they were on the conspiracy bandwagon??

No takers...............I thought so.......
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 4 2009, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe that Casey has as strong a desire as ever to win the world championship again, still has a working relationship with Ducati and is not psyched out by Rossi. Even if chronic fatigue can be induced by pressure, it is not the same as being psyched-out or having a nervous breakdown. It is a physical condition that needs time and rest to resolve. Give the fella a break and hope that he comes back sooner than later.


Well, what do you know- he,s back , he wants to win, and the break was the right strategy.

................and Kevin Schwantz is no doctor. Enough said!

Now who here is willing to put their hand up and admit they were on the conspiracy bandwagon??

No takers...............I thought so.......
<

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Or the aussie version: Don't count your babies until the dingo's are gone. Or the North Korean version: Don't count your missiles until the U.N. officials are gone.
I was trying to some up with a funny american on but I couldn't. Gaz, whatcha got for me?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Oct 5 2009, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Or the aussie version: Don't count your babies until the dingo's are gone. Or the North Korean version: Don't count your missiles until the U.N. officials are gone.
I was trying to some up with a funny american on but I couldn't. Gaz, whatcha got for me?
Karma is a ..... is perhaps more universal. One swallow doesn't make a summer whilst not australian may also be applicable.

I thought casey was restrained in the post-race interview on the tv coverage but he has given his critics including kevin schwantz both barrels, re-loading several times, in another interview; the transcript is on motogp matters. This is perhaps unfortunate, as media reaction to his return has been quite positive, and I think he could have ridden a wave of positive press coverage for some time if he had stuck to platitudes. This is not the way he is though, probably to his detriment, and as I have always maintained he doesn't play games in his media dealings, but tells the unvarnished truth as he sees it. I have never been in any doubt that he genuinely believed he had a physical health problem during all this, whether or not this was so (I personally obviously think it was so).
 
well you can look at it this way. How many of predicted Rossi or even pedrosa to finish this race before Stoner? Dude did a good job for not rider in a long while. He is a great rider no matter what anyone says. Same goes for Dani regardles of his persona or lack of one. But Casey had some physical issues. People can speculate til their blue in the face but unless you know the guy anything your reading even from Schwantz is still just speculation.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Oct 5 2009, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I believe that Casey has as strong a desire as ever to win the world championship again, still has a working relationship with Ducati and is not psyched out by Rossi. Even if chronic fatigue can be induced by pressure, it is not the same as being psyched-out or having a nervous breakdown. It is a physical condition that needs time and rest to resolve. Give the fella a break and hope that he comes back sooner than later.


Well, what do you know- he,s back , he wants to win, and the break was the right strategy.

................and Kevin Schwantz is no doctor. Enough said!

Now who here is willing to put their hand up and admit they were on the conspiracy bandwagon??

No takers...............I thought so.......
<


Takers....certainly are, if anything CS's performance could actually help the assumption that he was just 'Taking a Sickie', didn't seem to be anything wrong with his performance at all, not like most riders who come back after serious injury.......Conspiracy's are created through a lack of information.

The point being is, he should have been there all along, even if he was only fighting for 5th.

I would also like to bring up the engine issue, did Fiat Yamaha actually preserve VR's engine situation? Would be interesting to note as I heard they were having issues with the amount of engines left for the year......Rossi's post race 'Dirty look' at the crew just after jumping off the bike was also interesting and unusual, not a happy Doctor, Motogp might be losing the GOAT earlier than we think
 

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