Destructive Power of the Media- the end of reason.

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The percentage of responsible journalists in the media biz has always been relatively small compared to the that of the flash-in-the-pan, irresponsible gossip mongers. With the advent of the internet and especially social media there has been an exponential explosion of Matt Drudge type ....-birds always willing and ready to exploit cupidity of the sort that read the Daily Mirror and the NY Post with sensational trivia and outrageous lies in order to sell advertising space and promote their own fame as "journalists". Integrity in journalism is fast disappearing. Factual reporting is becoming a thing of the past. The average philistine doesn't want to know what's really happening. They just want to be distracted and titillated. Hubert Humphrey once said, "Pubic opinion is not stirred with a teaspoon." Unfortunately this is no longer so. The Edgar R Murrows of the journalism trade have been largely replaced by internet teaspoon stirrers.
 
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The ....... tinfoil hats are getting some good use today!!



Good post Kesh.
 
mad mick said:
I have to say, I don't agree with you about Obama. I reckon he is just an auto-cue reading puppet that is controlled by the same people who control the republicans - it's the 'good cop, bad cop' routine - where Obama is the good cop bringing 'hope' and 'change' to replace the 'bad cop' (Bush).
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For the most part.

IMO, the various puppeteers do have conflicting agendas, and the politicians they own are beholden to those interests. I'd agree that for 95% of the activities a President manages, there is no difference.



The whole "them vs us" game has been working quite nicely for thousands of years. Catholicism vs. unbelievers gave us the Inquisition that murdered tens of millions. Christians vs. Muslims = Crusades. Germany vs. Jews was a right mess. People can be unbelievably stupid, and it's no great trick to lead them marching off to battle to do your bidding. As for the daily task of keeping Joe Sixpack confused as to who the real enemy is, well that's not even a challenge anymore...



Putting in a guy with dark skin emphasizes the whole 'change' and 'hope' crap, as well. Most people have fallen for his manufactured ........ charm: hook, line, and sinker. There is plenty of info on Obama's origins, financiers and powerful supporters around if you want to take the trouble to look - and they're ALL insanely rich and powerful white pricks. Or, you could just believe the media.... I agree that they are possibly gonna use him for the GFC blame (as well as other stuff) - that was their (ruling elite's) plan all along, perhaps. Anyway, I've said enough, this ain't a political forum...
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But it is relevant to the discussion at hand.

BO is just another politician. Just because he speaks in complete sentences and has an IQ over 100 is no guarantee that he can or will do anything to fix the deeply rooted corruption that has taken over our government.
 
mad mick said:
My fear is that Dorna will be finished with him one day (soon) and dump him on the scrap heap. After all, everything in the modern world is disposable - even gods.
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The eventual disposal of 46 is a given. Sorry, but I can't feel the least bit of sympathy. He's been more than willing to play the game and, being smarter than average, is no doubt well aware of the rules. (Hell, even dumb little ..... like Justin Bieber must have some vague inkling of their fate.)
 
Would be interesting to see if Daryl, Casey and alike would trade all their Helicopters, Mansions, Millions etc. just to turn up and ride the bike for an average wage and not deal with the PR...........



I don't fell sorry for any of them, this is rubbish. Stoner knew the game, his family risked it all to get him into the game, the media, the fans, the sponsors all existed in full flight well before Stoner ever threw a leg over a Motogp machine, ask Biaggi and Gibbers about dealing with the Rossi Phenom.......



Again, remove Rossi and his immense popularity, and this sport would be in trouble, especially now. Funny thing, a lot of the members here calling for the preservation of the formula, the nanny tech, the expense, and the so called 'faster' bikes, also resent Rossi and his fanbase immensely.......one of the key reasons the money exists for the tech in the first place is the promotion Rossi adds to the sport.......oh the irony.
 
The link proposed in this thread, between Casey's retirement and the Rossi so called "phenomenon", is completely arbitrary. Creating such arbitrary connections and presenting them as stories is exactly the type of pseudo-journalism that is deprecated.
 
You may think it is arbitrary, but that is only your opinion.



There are two levels of behaviour by the eurocentric press and by Ezpeleta also - one for Valentino and one for the others.

Because of this, no non-Rossi rider is ever truly given any slack and is consequently always given unfairly harsh analysis. This persistent and unimpartial analysis was the main factor in Caseys departure. Its origins are directly because of the RP. The connection is obvious and easy to see for any without yellow blinkers.



Not one of your better responses. I have generally admired your contributions however.
 
chopperman said:
You have been absent because Stoner was not winning and falling behind in the championship. Then all of a sudden you and many others re appear once stoner win a race and the championship is back on. You fool nobody !
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Pot, kettle, dark matter.



You are a funny fellow Rog.



I spend half a day constructing that, and that is all you can respond with?





I think I shall dub thee my little Higgs boson ( very topical).............you really are a fundamental partical!
<
















ps. That could be construed as a compliment.........
 
Bunyip said:
Climate change. Same thing. Pov reckons climate scientists have a vested interest in fabricating reports to guarantee themselves jobs. Most amazingly stupid thing to come out of a smart mans brain! You could equally (stupidly) try that bit of logic to any profession. Think about it. Who really stands to benefit from no carbon tax, emission trading schemes etc? The big guys, the wealthy guys, the guys raping the planet to buy another megayacht. And you can,t see it?? Not if the same guys and their mates own all the media outlets and spin all the crap that seems to blind the population so easily. It is so obvious , but people are too dumb to notice. In Australia, one of our mining magnates is buying into one of the few non-Murdoch papers , so she can spin her own pro-mining message in the media. It doesn,t come much more obvious than that, but most of the local idiots here are too dumb to notice. As long as they have their latest iphone and bmw 3 series life is good and who gives a ....!
Click to expand...

Sorry to take this off topic, but this brainwashed viewpoint gets my goat.



Try WUWT http://wattsupwiththat.com/ for some sensible info on "climate change". You think that Povol is wrong - try researching "Climategate", especially Climategate-2



As to who stands to benefit from CAGW, try Agenda 21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21 (there are better links but it's a start)



Bombing the western world back to the level of African countries helps neither, nor will it reduce CO2 production as the Africans (and others worldwide) still burn dung for heating and cooking, which produces significant pollutants (as well as CO2, which is plant food FFS) which damage the people using such fuels. A coal fired power station would be far more eco- friendly, not produce the pollutants, provide cheaper electicity (assuming the infrastrucure could be put in place) and generally improve the lives of those in rural areas of India and Africa.



What the control freaks who want to make the western world reduce CO2 are trying to do is to increase the amount of control they have over the common people, in India, in Africa, and also in the western world.



Global warming isn't happening. Temps have stayed flat over the last fifteen years. Now they are looking for a new control handle. Look at Rio 20. The message stays the same - we want to control you by fear. It was CAGW, now it's biodiversity. Be very afraid if the next message is "Ice Age" as we are overdue one!!

If you don't make the effort to understand the science behind the attempt to control by fear, then don't be surprised when the post modern "Spanish Inquisition" arrives.



As I said - research it, understand it. Make sure that the vested interest guys (be they the scientists themselves looking for more grant money or the politicians looking to control you) are not making you look like an ......



Don't quote it as if it were gospel - it is not.
 
Not an attack Bunyip, .....but are you factoring the "Second coming of the Lord" into the "Non-Rossi rider" statement ?



Seems to me that if rules can be changed to assist in expediting your arrival into a seat preordained for your backside, resulting in your future senior team-mate being forced to take a pay cut (Bet Dani knows how it feels now !.....just less room to manouvre than Rossi......although thats probably a good thing....) largely avoid any repercusions for manouvres (other than a slight frown accompanied by some "titch-titch-titch" noises) that are scurrilous in nature..as well as having decisions overturned for actions that when viewed in the best possible light have seen other riders sent to the back of the grid or given a ride through penalty, then Rossi has nothing by comparison.



Especially if all this has occured without the afore mentioned having even won a bloody championship !!



This is not intended to defend Rossi, merely to point out that things are getting worse.





Lo !, the creation of the next super star has commenced.



The Magic of Dorna, and the sports two biggest players at work........
 
mad mick said:
I have to say, I don't agree with you about Obama. I reckon he is just an auto-cue reading puppet that is controlled by the same people who control the republicans - it's the 'good cop, bad cop' routine - where Obama is the good cop bringing 'hope' and 'change' to replace the 'bad cop' (Bush). Putting in a guy with dark skin emphasizes the whole 'change' and 'hope' crap, as well. Most people have fallen for his manufactured ........ charm: hook, line, and sinker. There is plenty of info on Obama's origins, financiers and powerful supporters around if you want to take the trouble to look - and they're ALL insanely rich and powerful white pricks. Or, you could just believe the media.... I agree that they are possibly gonna use him for the GFC blame (as well as other stuff) - that was their (ruling elite's) plan all along, perhaps. Anyway, I've said enough, this aint a political forum...
Click to expand...



Its the same in Australia where everyone focuses on the people in Government as if one side is going to be different from the other. I think its not the people at fault, its the system. Doesnt matter who you vote for the system remains the same and the system is outdated at best or corrupt at worst. At the moment I work in an industry that has been hit hard by the financial collapse of the Reeds Group construction company. Luckily I am not a private subcontractor, because these people have gone bankrupt thanks to unpaid work for Reeds. The place I work is owed money by Reeds but luckily is large enough to cover the loss. It is alledged the money owed has already been paid to Reeds by the Government. Like I said, I dont blame the people who work in Government because they are just normal people like me, but the system whereby a company can receive money then instantly disappear offshore with a whole bunch of local subcontractors left bankrupt is ridiculous. The Government will sit on their hands and do nothing, then carry on about how they need a few more speed cameras or some other ........ to divert people from thinking about the real problems.
 
yamaka46 said:
Sorry to take this off topic, but this brainwashed viewpoint gets my goat.



Try WUWT http://wattsupwiththat.com/ for some sensible info on "climate change". You think that Povol is wrong - try researching "Climategate", especially Climategate-2



As to who stands to benefit from CAGW, try Agenda 21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21 (there are better links but it's a start)



Bombing the western world back to the level of African countries helps neither, nor will it reduce CO2 production as the Africans (and others worldwide) still burn dung for heating and cooking, which produces significant pollutants (as well as CO2, which is plant food FFS) which damage the people using such fuels. A coal fired power station would be far more eco- friendly, not produce the pollutants, provide cheaper electicity (assuming the infrastrucure could be put in place) and generally improve the lives of those in rural areas of India and Africa.



What the control freaks who want to make the western world reduce CO2 are trying to do is to increase the amount of control they have over the common people, in India, in Africa, and also in the western world.



Global warming isn't happening. Temps have stayed flat over the last fifteen years. Now they are looking for a new control handle. Look at Rio 20. The message stays the same - we want to control you by fear. It was CAGW, now it's biodiversity. Be very afraid if the next message is "Ice Age" as we are overdue one!!

If you don't make the effort to understand the science behind the attempt to control by fear, then don't be surprised when the post modern "Spanish Inquisition" arrives.



As I said - research it, understand it. Make sure that the vested interest guys (be they the scientists themselves looking for more grant money or the politicians looking to control you) are not making you look like an ......



Don't quote it as if it were gospel - it is not.
Click to expand...



Hahahahahaha.
 
yamaka, the moguls have you exactly where they want you. They win, you lose.

Do a google search refined by "scholar" and all the crap shall be weeded out and then you will know the truth.



On the taskbar near top of page at right end, click on "more" for more search options, then click on "even more", then on "scholar". This refines you search to articles from experts in that field, not radio personalities or puppets of big business.



You wont bother. Didn,t think so.

Don,t reply unless you can be bothered.



Do you go to your local shock-jock for a major medical procedure, plans for construction of a new bridge, programming for the next generation computer software? Nope. Much the same. Listen to the experts. Those that have qualifications in that specific field. Those that have any publications peer reviewed to verify their veracity.



Even if 5% of climate scientists thought that catastrophic global warming will result in temperatures rising by 3-4 degrees C within a century and consequent reduction of food prouction to the level that only 1 billion or so people can live, not to mention the rise of tropical disease and wars over declining essentials for life (food), we should be fairly concerned. BUT WHAT IF 98% of them thought that that was the likely outcome. Well thats how it is buddy. Every profession has 2 % nutters, so it is staggering that we should choose to ignore the projections.



Currently the human race is behaving like lemmings, happily leaping off the cliff. Absolutely gobsmackingly stupid as it is, thats exactly what is happening. We need to act immediately as it is almost too late to reduce the rise in temps by even 2 C, which is the most optimistic outcome we can expect by 2100. Doesn,t sound like much hey, but it will still mean reduced farming country, alower sustainable population and much positioning for remaining keenly sought resources. Most people can,t believe it is true; its never happened before so how could it be true?. But the world is finite, it is a closed system, and its massive reserve capacity has all been used up. The .... starts to hit the wall very soon, if not already. Don,t forget that extreme weather ( incuding cold spells) are part of the fallout of climate change.



Is any or all of this beyond you? Currently it is for much of the population. They live in ignorance, fed the ........ by the media outlets run by the greedy moguls, who sustain their positions of privilege through this strategy. If you want to be a little mushroom growing in the dark, just keep listeneing to what you are apparently happy to hear. Mushroom.........
 
Talpa said:
Would be interesting to see if Daryl, Casey and alike would trade all their Helicopters, Mansions, Millions etc. just to turn up and ride the bike for an average wage and not deal with the PR...........



I don't fell sorry for any of them, this is rubbish. Stoner knew the game, his family risked it all to get him into the game, the media, the fans, the sponsors all existed in full flight well before Stoner ever threw a leg over a Motogp machine, ask Biaggi and Gibbers about dealing with the Rossi Phenom.......



Again, remove Rossi and his immense popularity, and this sport would be in trouble, especially now. Funny thing, a lot of the members here calling for the preservation of the formula, the nanny tech, the expense, and the so called 'faster' bikes, also resent Rossi and his fanbase immensely.......one of the key reasons the money exists for the tech in the first place is the promotion Rossi adds to the sport.......oh the irony.
Click to expand...

I am an old fogey, but I thought the sport was fine the way it was, and the great riders of the eighties and nineties seem to all be very comfortably off in their retirement. I would argue that the FIM or whoever selling off the series to venture capitalists to make more money (I have always wondered for whom) has led to the current woes, although the incompetence of the current venture capitalists (as opposed to those initially involved, who ran the sport fairly well as lex says), and whatever feudal motives are involved in yamaha's and honda's unsustainable technological war have not helped. You can blame honda and yamaha, but they should never have been in charge of the tech regs, and nor should dorna; it should be the FIM.



Where it is unfair is to bring rossi into it. As I have argued elsewhere, he is a fortunate accident for the popularity of the sport, and if he has taken advantage to make some money for himself then this is hardly unique among sports figures of his stature or any different than what most would do in his situation. He richly deserves his success and I don't think his championships were contrived (I have some doubts about whether the 2007 tyre was taken away from ducati in 2008 as lex has speculated before the control tyre came in, but he also rode remarkably well that year and if dorna took away that tyre it was for their own reasons). Dorna can't groom anyone to replace him, his talent is a one off, and the charm and wit were a bonus. If they pick someone with wit and charm resembling his in the hope of media appeal, then they have to be able to ride like him to have the same impact; poor marco didn't approach having his riding talent, imo.



The problem for non-rossi fans, as I believe is the case for non-rossi riders, is the attitude to them and to their achievements, rather than an inabilty to contemplate the glory that is valentino. You could indeed ask max and gibbers, I am sure they didn't enjoy the role of pantomime villain either, but weren't able to fight back by being as competitive with valentino as stoner managed to be; I tend to think this would have made them even more disliked rather than less disliked, as has proven to be the case with stoner.
 
Crikey!!!



Casey has a baby daughter and decides to stay home because it has more value to him than the GP circus, and all the conspiracies under the sun come out!!



I don't think "anything" would have kept Stoner in GP.



He was offered the largest sum of money ever offered in GP and a contract for just what he wanted ...... and still walked.



Why.



Because



Risk + everything < family.
 
Two things you said that resonated Bunyip



Australia needs a rider in GP. I agree 100%. GP is going to lose a whole continent of fans when he retires. Just like America. As it stands right now there will probabaly be no Americans on a GP bike next yr.

That is terrible for the sport



I dont believe CS leaving is helping to resurrect VR's career. Theres not a factory out there that wouldnt Move heaven and hell to get him back, even if it required running a third factory bike.
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
Two things you said that resonated Bunyip



Australia needs a rider in GP. I agree 100%. GP is going to lose a whole continent of fans when he retires. Just like America. As it stands right now there will probabaly be no Americans on a GP bike next yr.

That is terrible for the sport



I dont believe CS leaving is helping to resurrect VR's career. Theres not a factory out there that wouldnt Move heaven and hell to get him back, even if it required running a third factory bike.
Click to expand...



Your best post JK. 100% agree. A Spainish Cup is where Moto GP is headed & it will be the end of the sport as we know it. It can't be called a world championship if Dorna are only pushing the barrow for European riders, particularly from Spain & Italy. If there are no riders from countries where races are held, then races such as Phillip Island for example, won't get the crowds needed to make them viable. If the tracks don't get that support they need, then it would be entirely possible for the races to be removed from the calender. It's a slippery slope Dorna are standing on & unless the change their direction, they are heading straight to the bottom.
 
michaelm said:
I am an old fogey, but I thought the sport was fine the way it was, and the great riders of the eighties and nineties seem to all be very comfortable in their retirement. I would argue that the FIM or whoever selling off the series to venture capitalists to make more money (I have always wondered who for) has led to the current woes, although the incompetence of the current venture capitalists (as opposed to those initially involved, who ran the sport fairly well as lex says), and whatever feudal motives are involved in yamaha's and honda's unsustainable technological war have not helped. You can blame honda and yamaha, but they should never have been in charge of the tech regs, and nor should dorna; it should be the FIM.



Where it is unfair is to bring rossi into it. As I have argued elsewhere, he is a fortunate accident for the popularity of the sport, and if he has taken advantage to make some money for himself then this is hardly unique among sports figures of his stature or any different than what most would do in his situation. He richly deserves his success and I don't think his championships were contrived (I have some doubts about whether the 2007 tyre was taken away from ducati in 2008 as lex has speculated before the control tyre came in, but he also rode remarkably well that year and if dorna took away that tyre it was for their own reasons). Dorna can't groom anyone to replace him, his talent is a one off, and the charm and wit were a bonus. If they pick someone with wit and charm resembling his in the hope of media appeal, then they have to be able to ride like him to have the same impact; poor marco didn't approach having his riding talent, imo.



The problem for non-rossi fans, as I believe is the case for non-rossi riders, is the attitude to them and to their achievements, rather than an inabilty to contemplate the glory that is valentino. You could indeed ask max and gibbers, I am sure they didn't enjoy the role of pantomime villain either, but weren't able to fight back by being as competitive with valentino as stoner managed to be; I tend to think this would have made them even more disliked rather than less disliked, as has proven to be the case with stoner.
Click to expand...



If we didn't have the modern media and modern Motogp, we certainly wouldn't have much fodder for this forum.



I agree with a lot of your points, but my point is-there is a price to pay for competing at this level- in this series......dealing with the media and fans is a huge part of it, if you don't like it-leave! Stoner has done just that, if he blames the media then fair enough. I'm saying he knew the media was there, and he knew their nature well before he rode a Motogp bike, Stoner choose to accept the huge sums of money and all the benefits of this sport which exist in part because of the popularity of Valentino Rossi. Stoner had a right to be upset with the treatment of his achievements in 2007, but since then he has done himself no favors in the PR game, and the current attitudes towards him from a lot of punters exists because of his actions, and his actions alone. Many have beaten Rossi, none share the same public perception as Casey Stoner.



The cop out of riders who say they just want to turn up and ride is BS IMO-a spolit/ highly selfish mindset which has no place in modern sport, these sports exist because of money, the money brought by sponsors, the sponsors brought by promotion-simple. On this I actually agree with Barry :0......Stoner has retired moreso for his family, and nothing can change this, he just thrown out some final digs to say .... you to the establishment, so he will be missed by few. If he wanted to retire because of the media, he would have done it in August 2008.
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
I dont believe CS leaving is helping to resurrect VR's career. Theres not a factory out there that wouldnt Move heaven and hell to get him back, even if it required running a third factory bike.
Click to expand...

If honda want to win the title next year he is certainly their best bet, it is inconceivable to me that marquez will in his first year, and I can't see pedrosa beating jorge. He well might have an equal chance with jorge if he was on a factory yamaha with equal support, and would certainly bring money to yamaha, not that this seemed to concern them 2 years ago. What yamaha's and honda's motives are is not very clear to me though, and I don't think they are strictly commercial. I still wonder whether he more or less decided to retire and told yamaha then reconsidered, because events there make little sense otherwise, apart from him getting older in general like everybody else does and jorge having many more years ahead of him when they considered things in 2009.
 

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