CRT Progress

mylexicon · Apr 5, 2012

povol said:
After looking at the speed charts, im calling ........ on the 210 mph Aprilia WSBK speed at Aragon. The straight at Qatar is faster than Aragon and Depuniet hit 195 today,and that was almost certainly in a draft.

The engine must be tuned according to the 12 engine rule. They were talking about it on Eurosport. RDP wants a proper grenade for horsepower tracks, but Aprilia/Aspar are reluctant to provide an engine that will strain the 12 engine allocation. The RSV4 engine, tuned to its breaking point, can produce enough power to hit 210mph. Fairing rules in WSBK are a bit different as well. If you look at the WSBK machine, it has a slightly longer nose section which probably helps reduce drag a bit.

I'm almost certain it happened. Whether it can be replicated for CRT competition is another question. No engine life rules in SBK.

povol · Apr 5, 2012

mylexicon said:
The engine must be tuned according to the 12 engine rule. They were talking about it on Eurosport. RDP wants a proper grenade for horsepower tracks, but Aprilia/Aspar are reluctant to provide an engine that will strain the 12 engine allocation. The RSV4 engine, tuned to its breaking point, can produce enough power to hit 210mph. Fairing rules in WSBK are a bit different as well. If you look at the WSBK machine, it has a slightly longer nose section which probably helps reduce drag a bit.

I'm almost certain it happened. Whether it can be replicated for CRT competition is another question. No engine life rules in SBK.

That i have no doubt, but i do doubt it achieved that at Aragon. This quote, you can almost see Luigi give a little wink wink

Eugene Laverty wrote on twitter that he reached 210 mph yesterday, which is roughly 337 km/h. And while the team didn't deny what their rider wrote, technical director Luigi Dall'Igna tried to downplay the result: "Yeah, we did 330 on that lap, but maybe Eugene was in someone's draft, or had a nice tailwind..."

I remember a cop once charged a guy in Minnesota with with running 205 mph on a stock RC51. That turned out to be a slight exaggeration also.

povol · Apr 5, 2012

Speaking of Speed difference, has anyone noticed that there is a 30 mph [ 50kph] spread between 1-21. And as i expected it would, the lap time difference between the two classes has grown by a large margin on a HP track compared to Jerez.

mylexicon · Apr 5, 2012

povol said:
That i have no doubt, but i do doubt it achieved that at Aragon. This quote, you can almost see Luigi give a little wink wink

Eugene Laverty wrote on twitter that he reached 210 mph yesterday, which is roughly 337 km/h. And while the team didn't deny what their rider wrote, technical director Luigi Dall'Igna tried to downplay the result: "Yeah, we did 330 on that lap, but maybe Eugene was in someone's draft, or had a nice tailwind..."

I remember a cop once charged a guy in Minnesota with with running 205 mph on a stock RC51. That turned out to be a slight exaggeration also.

They downplayed the top speed b/c it won't be replicated in WSBK trim. Dall'Igna doesn't want people asking him why Laverty's SBK can go 337kph in testing, but "only" 320kph during the race. There is no graceful way out of that question, and the wrong answer will obviously bring fire and brimstone from the Flamminis and possibly the FIM.

At this point, I'm assuming you know why the top speed will fall 20 clicks during a WSBK race.

mylexicon · Apr 5, 2012

povol said:
Speaking of Speed difference, has anyone noticed that there is a 30 mph [ 50kph] spread between 1-21. And as i expected it would, the lap time difference between the two classes has grown by a large margin on a HP track compared to Jerez.

I think the performance disparity at a horsepower track was a foregone conclusion. The CRT engines are missing between 10-20hp compared to a satellite bike in race trim. However, the CRT teams are leveraging WSBK development so the engines are relatively well developed. The chassis development for CRT at the moment is a bit of a joke. That's why it was smart for Aprilia to stay at Jerez and work on the chassis, though it didn't give them a real idea of how far off the pace they are.

If you think it's bad now, just wait until qualifying on Saturday. The difference in pace will be huge, yet it will still not truly represent the speed differential b/c the 1000cc factory bikes are designed to optimize 21L capacity, not unlimited fuel as in qualifying.

Kropotkin · Apr 6, 2012

povol said:
After looking at the speed charts, im calling ........ on the 210 mph Aprilia WSBK speed at Aragon. The straight at Qatar is faster than Aragon and Depuniet hit 195 today,and that was almost certainly in a draft.

WSBK runs a different layout at Aragon, making the back straight significantly longer. And it's all downhill, so I can believe it. There was a bit of a headwind at Qatar, which may have cut a couple of km/h off the top speeds.

povol · Apr 6, 2012

Kropotkin said:
WSBK runs a different layout at Aragon, making the back straight significantly longer. And it's all downhill, so I can believe it. There was a bit of a headwind at Qatar, which may have cut a couple of km/h off the top speeds.

That was established a couple weeks ago when the claim was made. Team Boss says 330, rider says 337. Tail wind ,downhill in a draft.

Mick D · Apr 6, 2012

Cal C. just talkin live on the eurosport broadcast: ART Aprillia CRT bike DOWN 20hp to Biaggi's WSBK Aprilla because of 12 engine rule. Biaggi used more than one engine per race (28 total in '11) and tuned much tighter for extra hp...

Mick D · Apr 6, 2012

How about making "CRTs" an open class? Run-what-ya-brung use all the gas, or hydrogen or sunlight or electricity or whatever - if you can be within X% (like no worse than Collie/Randy kinda thing) of leaders! Simple, compelling, creative opportunity.

mylexicon · Apr 6, 2012

Mick D said:
How about making "CRTs" an open class? Run-what-ya-brung use all the gas, or hydrogen or sunlight or electricity or whatever - if you can be within X% (like no worse than Collie/Randy kinda thing) of leaders! Simple, compelling, creative opportunity.

MotoGP wouldn't need a rule to keep the CRTs within X% of the factory bikes. MotoGP would need a rule to keep the factory bikes within X% of the CRTs.

sewarion · Apr 6, 2012

I feel somewhat reassured of my earlier statement concerning PBM. They're a joke, obviously. No offense towards brits, but when I read about their 'only brits in the team, patriotic color scheme, etc.' in MCN, I had to scratch my head. And looking at Ellison and his strange looking bike and his lap times.. yuk.

Although I really have no infos on their financial situation, the article on MCN didn't make the impression on me that they would have money to burn. Couldn't see any sponsor logo on the bike either.

edit: Regarding Aprilia's engines, I think it might be a somewhat new challenge to them to tune their engines for longelivity. But for sure they do have the resources to accomplish that, and I think they will take a look at the whole engine situation after a few races and decide from there. Chassis wise RdP didn't look too different from Abraham/Bautista when I saw him doing some corners with them.

Geonerd · Apr 6, 2012

What's the consensus guesstimate of the factory 1000cc bikes' crank horsepower?

sewarion · Apr 6, 2012

Geonerd said:
What's the consensus guesstimate of the factory 1000cc bikes' crank horsepower?

240+/240-250 I think.

mylexicon · Apr 6, 2012

Geonerd said:
What's the consensus guesstimate of the factory 1000cc bikes' crank horsepower?

In qualifying trim, the factory bikes should all make 250hp or more. In race trim, peak power will probably be 220hp-230hp over race distance depending upon the circuit, about the same as last year, imo.

Mick D · Apr 6, 2012

mylexicon said:
MotoGP wouldn't need a rule to keep the CRTs within X% of the factory bikes. MotoGP would need a rule to keep the factory bikes within X% of the CRTs.

Factories will still have the big budgets and the best riders... If "open class" is competitive or "too fast" can start relaxing fuel, bore, weight restrictions on factories and move the whole bloody format away from rules tinkering.

lil red rocket pilot · Apr 7, 2012

Mick D said:
Factories will still have the big budgets and the best riders... If "open class" is competitive or "too fast" can start relaxing fuel, bore, weight restrictions on factories and move the whole bloody format away from rules tinkering.

I can't see that happening.

More like as the CRT's catch up then they will become subject to regulations more in line with the factory efforts.

They have more fuel and engines to be taken off then as they progress in development.

When or should I say IF CRT's do actually catch up to the factory teams then we may start to see us move away from rules imposed.

Kropotkin · Apr 7, 2012

sewarion said:
I feel somewhat reassured of my earlier statement concerning PBM. They're a joke, obviously. No offense towards brits, but when I read about their 'only brits in the team, patriotic color scheme, etc.' in MCN, I had to scratch my head. And looking at Ellison and his strange looking bike and his lap times.. yuk.

Although I really have no infos on their financial situation, the article on MCN didn't make the impression on me that they would have money to burn. Couldn't see any sponsor logo on the bike either.

Paul Bird is wealthy enough to pay for this out of his own pocket. They will last the year, then disappear.

two-stroke · Apr 7, 2012

Kropotkin said:
Paul Bird is wealthy enough to pay for this out of his own pocket. They will last the year, then disappear.

Something to do with transporting less-than-legal South American goods across the channel?

My lawyers have recommended that I add to this comment that I in no way suggest any kind of illegal activity on the part of Paul Bird, or his team. I am sure he is a perfectly respectable gentlemen.

Kropotkin · Apr 7, 2012

two-stroke said:
Something to do with transporting less-than-legal South American goods across the channel?

My lawyers have recommended that I add to this comment that I in no way suggest any kind of illegal activity on the part of Paul Bird, or his team. I am sure he is a perfectly respectable gentlemen.

Actually, his dad owns massive turkey breeding business. The transcontinental transport business is a sideline.

sewarion · Apr 8, 2012

I like RdP's comment on the race. It is quite direct and honest (big point to him), it is quite interesting to see the progress/state of CRT from the perspective of a rider.

13th Randy De Puniet: "In general, this weekend has been rather strange. I crashed twice and I ended up with a bike that didn't behave as well as in Jerez -I suppose that was due to the lack of grip on this track. These small things made me lose my confidence a little and I started the race with doubts in my mind. However, the situation turned around in the race. After the opening laps I started to make a comeback through the field and began to catch Edwards, but then we had an unfortunate issue with the gearbox and at the end of the straight I was unable to move down gears. That meant that I began to lose time again and I had to regain more positions. Right at the end I began to note the lack of grip on the rear, which probably means that we made a mistake with the suspension configuration. The positive thing is that we adapted to everything that was thrown at us and placed second out of the CRT bikes -thirteenth overall. I think that this is a good result, but we have to keep on going in the same way in order to ride as fast in Jerez as we did in the tests."

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