Concern for Stoner

refer to the post below

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goldwing @ Sep 1 2008, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Prior to last year Stoner was a run of the mill guy amongst the pack and didn’t look very special. Then he joined the Duks and they clicked, and all of a sudden he starts having easy run away victories. Both Stoner and Ducati were amazed, didn’t ask too many questions and rode the wave as long as they could. Imagine that, suddenly the front riders that you dreamed about beating one day were quite easy to beat, but he knew that VR was having problems and that he may sort them out and he would have to race for the position. WhenVR did sort some of the problems out he still could pull away (most times) and win the race. Imagine the high that he was on last year. Almost all in the paddock including thousands of overnight fans admired what Duk and he was doing. As a leader last year and whilst at the top of the standings he was a hell of a nice guy and was full of compliments to any one of the riders on the grid.

This season started and he was off to a flying start and suddenly the wheels fell off. For what ever reason. His world was starting to fall apart and probably wanted to rewind and start the season again. This is where things started to change and then the media, other riders, equipment failure, injuries etc were to blame.

.... edit seems to be playing up.. double post

Stoner always seemed to be quite a serious guy but it seems to me that he might not be enjoying racing as much as last year and usually complaints are a sign of this. Yes all riders complain and his complaints might be publicized more but he is in the spot light and any negatives are exposed and sometimes unfairly so.

He is still young and may learn to get his head around, the fact that he has achieved a life time dream, and the media attention as well as the fans.

It would be difficult for almost everyone to reach the pinnacle of the sport and still have to accept that you are not the favorite as witnessed at most podium presentations.

My concern is that he might just do harm to himself with his current state of mind.
He has already lost a large fan base. Will he be able to turn this around?
He seems to handle losses badly even when he comes second.
Will he be able to sort problems out in the garage with the team instead of blaming them? (John Kajinski could not get a ride eventually with any team)
Will he be able to come to terms with the fact that at some stage he may have to bang it out wheel to wheel with as many as four riders for the win?
Will he be able to really enjoy his racing even if he does not win?
Will he realistically be able to repeat his feat of last year with any other team?

As a rider he certainly has the ability as he has already proved but there seems to be a hell of a lot more that he has to learn to deal with. I think that Rossi, whom he beat well and truly last year, the most respected, well like and most popular guy, burns his backside.

Seems a big ask for someone that has already been world champion.

Well as far as casey's championship is concerned.... if casey wins every race from now on, rossi only has to finish in fifth place for the rest of the season to equal 312 points alongside stoner. Caseys going to need rossi to have a couple of ...... weekends to claw back enough points for the championship

If rossi gains another 25 points lead over stoner at indy, its game over for caseys championship ...... allthough, anything could happen at indy no previous data to work on for any team ( with the exception of haydens little bit of experience ) , the racing should be good.

edit seems to be playing up ... double post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goldwing @ Sep 1 2008, 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Prior to last year Stoner was a run of the mill guy amongst the pack and didn’t look very special. Then he joined the Duks and they clicked, and all of a sudden he starts having easy run away victories. Both Stoner and Ducati were amazed, didn’t ask too many questions and rode the wave as long as they could. Imagine that, suddenly the front riders that you dreamed about beating one day were quite easy to beat, but he knew that VR was having problems and that he may sort them out and he would have to race for the position. WhenVR did sort some of the problems out he still could pull away (most times) and win the race. Imagine the high that he was on last year. Almost all in the paddock including thousands of overnight fans admired what Duk and he was doing. As a leader last year and whilst at the top of the standings he was a hell of a nice guy and was full of compliments to any one of the riders on the grid.

This season started and he was off to a flying start and suddenly the wheels fell off. For what ever reason. His world was starting to fall apart and probably wanted to rewind and start the season again. This is where things started to change and then the media, other riders, equipment failure, injuries etc were to blame.

Stoner always seemed to be quite a serious guy but it seems to me that he might not be enjoying racing as much as last year and usually complaints are a sign of this. Yes all riders complain and his complaints might be publicized more but he is in the spot light and any negatives are exposed and sometimes unfairly so.

He is still young and may learn to get his head around, the fact that he has achieved a life time dream, and the media attention as well as the fans.

It would be difficult for almost everyone to reach the pinnacle of the sport and still have to accept that you are not the favorite as witnessed at most podium presentations.

My concern is that he might just do harm to himself with his current state of mind.
He has already lost a large fan base. Will he be able to turn this around?
He seems to handle losses badly even when he comes second.
Will he be able to sort problems out in the garage with the team instead of blaming them? (John Kajinski could not get a ride eventually with any team)
Will he be able to come to terms with the fact that at some stage he may have to bang it out wheel to wheel with as many as four riders for the win?
Will he be able to really enjoy his racing even if he does not win?
Will he realistically be able to repeat his feat of last year with any other team?

As a rider he certainly has the ability as he has already proved but there seems to be a hell of a lot more that he has to learn to deal with. I think that Rossi, whom he beat well and truly last year, the most respected, well like and most popular guy, burns his backside.

Seems a big ask for someone that has already been world champion.
cracking first post mate and welcome to the gang.
we have had first hand experience of the highlighted here on this very forum

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goldwing @ Sep 1 2008, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Prior to last year Stoner was a run of the mill guy amongst the pack and didn’t look very special. Then he joined the Duks and they clicked, and all of a sudden he starts having easy run away victories. Both Stoner and Ducati were amazed, didn’t ask too many questions and rode the wave as long as they could. Imagine that, suddenly the front riders that you dreamed about beating one day were quite easy to beat, but he knew that VR was having problems and that he may sort them out and he would have to race for the position. WhenVR did sort some of the problems out he still could pull away (most times) and win the race. Imagine the high that he was on last year. Almost all in the paddock including thousands of overnight fans admired what Duk and he was doing. As a leader last year and whilst at the top of the standings he was a hell of a nice guy and was full of compliments to any one of the riders on the grid.

This season started and he was off to a flying start and suddenly the wheels fell off. For what ever reason. His world was starting to fall apart and probably wanted to rewind and start the season again. This is where things started to change and then the media, other riders, equipment failure, injuries etc were to blame.

Stoner always seemed to be quite a serious guy but it seems to me that he might not be enjoying racing as much as last year and usually complaints are a sign of this. Yes all riders complain and his complaints might be publicized more but he is in the spot light and any negatives are exposed and sometimes unfairly so.

He is still young and may learn to get his head around, the fact that he has achieved a life time dream, and the media attention as well as the fans.

It would be difficult for almost everyone to reach the pinnacle of the sport and still have to accept that you are not the favorite as witnessed at most podium presentations.

My concern is that he might just do harm to himself with his current state of mind.
He has already lost a large fan base. Will he be able to turn this around?
He seems to handle losses badly even when he comes second.
Will he be able to sort problems out in the garage with the team instead of blaming them? (John Kajinski could not get a ride eventually with any team)
Will he be able to come to terms with the fact that at some stage he may have to bang it out wheel to wheel with as many as four riders for the win?
Will he be able to really enjoy his racing even if he does not win?
Will he realistically be able to repeat his feat of last year with any other team?

As a rider he certainly has the ability as he has already proved but there seems to be a hell of a lot more that he has to learn to deal with. I think that Rossi, whom he beat well and truly last year, the most respected, well like and most popular guy, burns his backside.

Seems a big ask for someone that has already been world champion.
Nice post!
I have that concern for Stoner too.When he came second at Laguna Seca and then had those comments about the race and Rossi,i thought
-damn,don't let it get to your head that badly.
There is absolutely no gain in such comments and thoughts.The thing that he came second to Rossi was a shame but the comments and him letting it get to his head and to the public was ten times worse.
Also the Rossi fans,Motogp fans who maybe doesn't like him the best and the media is going to have a field day and he must have known this.The media is already playing him against the funny iconic Rossi as the oposite to get some drama or something.And i agree that he is not the funniest,but then again ,compare any famous racecardriver for instance to Rossi and you see there can be only one Rossi.If someone else came along that guy would immediately look like a Rossi wannabe.

I don't think he has had a good enough bike this year before Catalunya.I think he won in Quatar because ,It was the first race and he maybe had confidence enough to beat the others as a world champion and Rossi was busy ajusting to the new tires.
So it's probarbly alot of things making him behave this strange.Frustration of not being able to use an advantage on a raceweekend lately for one thing.Maybe the hand injury is playing a part.And ofcourse Rossi isn't exactly helping.

I kind of hope the team and he himself can turn this around.

Don't forget that ANYTHING can happen in moto gp. Think of the years Vale lost the title and no one could have predicted that his season would be so bad. The luck just seems to be with Vale right now and he has enormous momentum at present. Stoner cannont be counted out at all anymore. The season for anyone else to do anything looks pretty bleak but ya never know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Sep 2 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't forget that ANYTHING can happen in moto gp. Think of the years Vale lost the title and no one could have predicted that his season would be so bad. The luck just seems to be with Vale right now and he has enormous momentum at present. Stoner cannont be counted out at all anymore. The season for anyone else to do anything looks pretty bleak but ya never know.


Wow did Rossi lose the championship when he was 75 points ahead. If that's the case, he is the biggest choker.

But when i Think of the years Vale lost the title :

I only remember once when he was 9 points ahead with 1 gp to go,when he cracked under pressure.
and that was after a long time dominating and winning 5 world championships.

But i dont remember him crashing from lead twice in a row Like Biaggi and Stoner and Sete did.

Anyway anything still can happen, but that depends on Casey finding his form and Rossi losing his plain to his next 5 gp's, or such.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rossiofsky @ Sep 2 2008, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow did Rossi lose the championship when he was 75 points ahead. If that's the case, he is the biggest choker.

But when i Think of the years Vale lost the title :

I only remember once when he was 9 points ahead with 1 gp to go,when he cracked under pressure.
and that was after a long time dominating and winning 5 world championships.

But i dont remember him crashing from lead twice in a row Like Biaggi and Stoner and Sete did.

Anyway anything still can happen, but that depends on Casey finding his form and Rossi losing his plain to his next 5 gp's, or such.

Most people succumb to pressure. But one thing I remember, Stoner was notorious for crashing when he was in 250 class fighting for the championship against Pedrosa and when he was with LCR Honda. If not mistaken he chrashed more than 5 times. Duke hire him but it was a deal not even Suppo knew Stoner / Ducati shall won the MotoGp championship.

2007 was his lucky year. The Duc was damn fast and good with the stones and Yam was lacking power and michelin was bad. Casey won.

2006 was Nicky lucky year and he was consistent. The Yam was bad and Rossi had many DNFs. It was a year to forget for the Yam.

The rest of 2008 is going to be boring as hell, unlike 2006 and 2007 seasons. We already knew Rossi will win the championship...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V5Stroker @ Sep 2 2008, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2007 was his lucky year. The Duc was damn fast and good with the stones and Yam was lacking power and michelin was bad. Casey won.
Lucky year, sure, Loris Capirossi, who has known the Duke since its inception only won one race(more from luck), and along with Loris, only Vermeulen won a race on Bridgestones.

Again, this year, Melandri, Guintoli(and to a large extent, Elias) have been completely incapable of doing anything on the Ducati.

This year, he has 7 poles in a row, has been the fastest in almost every session, and has won four races.

Give credit where it is due. Stoner's success isn't a result of luck. He's just bloody awesome.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Sep 2 2008, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lucky year, sure, Loris Capirossi, who has known the Duke since its inception only won one race(more from luck), and along with Loris, only Vermeulen won a race on Bridgestones.

Again, this year, Melandri, Guintoli(and to a large extent, Elias) have been completely incapable of doing anything on the Ducati.

This year, he has 7 poles in a row, has been the fastest in almost every session, and has won four races.

Give credit where it is due. Stoner's success isn't a result of luck. He's just bloody awesome.

Stoner was fast and good with Duc last year and even this year too-no one is disputing about that. But this year Rossi / Yam is fast and on stone tire too.

Last year Stoner was lucky bcoz Yam was slow and michelin sucked.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V5Stroker @ Sep 2 2008, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner was fast and good with Duc last year and even this year too-no one is disputing about that. But this year Rossi / Yam is fast and on stone tire too.

Last year Stoner was lucky bcoz Yam was slow and michelin sucked.


That's right anyone can win with luck if they back it up with loads of skill. Surely Casey wasn't the only "lucky" rider out there last year. It is a weak premise for an argument to depend upon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Sep 2 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's right anyone can win with luck if they back it up with loads of skill. Surely Casey wasn't the only "lucky" rider out there last year. It is a weak premise for an argument to depend upon.


Without luck on your side, you don't lift many titles!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Sep 2 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's right anyone can win with luck if they back it up with loads of skill. Surely Casey wasn't the only "lucky" rider out there last year. It is a weak premise for an argument to depend upon.

Nobody wins a world title based on luck. I think one result of Rossi's enormous success has been that fans are spoilt by his level of dominance, and winning just one title becomes an achievement his fans easily bellitle.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Sep 2 2008, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Without luck on your side, you don't lift many titles!

Pete


I think we skidded wildly past my point "without loads of skill".

You can have luck, but luck alone is nothing. I'm lucky (truly I am) but I ain't gonna win a motogp race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V5Stroker @ Sep 2 2008, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Last year Stoner was lucky bcoz Yam was slow and michelin sucked.
The Yam being slower than the Duc and Michelin being worse than the Bridgestones had nothing to do with luck and everything to do with hard work and great development by Ducati and Bridgestone.
Add a great rider to that combination and you get that magical holy grail, the perfect package; rider, machine and tyres fitting together in unison, that's why he won, it wasn't just down to luck.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Sep 2 2008, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think we skidded wildly past my point "without loads of skill".

You can have luck, but luck alone is nothing. I'm lucky (truly I am) but I ain't gonna win a motogp race.

To be honest mate, I didn't write that coz I see the skill part as not even needing to be said!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Sep 2 2008, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To be honest mate, I didn't write that coz I see the skill part as not even needing to be said!

Pete

Then in what is a long form of agreement we both have said you need skill and luck to win a title. I'm good with that.

Cheers

Look in my previous post all I was saying is that ANYTHING can happen. Who would have thought that after Stoner ripped off those wins he would be having such a ...... part of the year? Hey anything can happen. Rossi isn't immune from .... happens. Hell if anything this is the time when .... happens. Look so far this year everyone that was leading the championship has lost it and got really ...... up. HA HA who knows maybe Depoopya will crash into Vale breaking his leg and can't race for the next 3 or so. HEy .... happens. You just never know really so that is why they run the rest of the season and not just give it to Vale. I know all you Vale buttlovers wish they could just give him the title at the start of the year and just forget the races so you can all beat off to his greatness.

To call Casey a lucky winner and champion is a bit too much, after he won 10 races.

It's right that Rossi and Yam had their problems and couldn't fight, but still casey had to finish and win those races, and for him in his second year in Motogp that was outstanding performance.

However imo in this year he hasn't performed as powerful as a champion, but this is his first defence and i'm almost sure that he will learn from this year and we will see him again fighting for the wins and championships.

Anyway on this year`s championship: even if Rossi's broke a leg or hand let`s be nice and say on a dance floor, and he wasn't able to continue, then Stoner and Pedrossa has to make 75

points in 5 races and that isn't a guranty ieder, And even if they get those points without Rossi in the game, Rossi wont be a loser in my eyes and he has proven that he still is the best by a

mile.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Helix @ Sep 2 2008, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Yam being slower than the Duc and Michelin being worse than the Bridgestones had nothing to do with luck and everything to do with hard work and great development by Ducati and Bridgestone.
Add a great rider to that combination and you get that magical holy grail, the perfect package; rider, machine and tyres fitting together in unison, that's why he won, it wasn't just down to luck.

Not luck from Ducati and Bridgestones sides, that's true, but certainly luck for Stoner.
First of all he was bloody lucky he got signed at all. Was he No 3 or 4 on the list?
Luck and skill that he gelled so fantastic with the Ducati.
Lucky that the other factories underestimated Ducati, Bridgestone and Stoner.

This is if not unquestionable at least comonly accepted, as well as it's just as obvious that he does have the skill to be a champion.