Casey Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 25 2007, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How can Casey be better then Rossi ever if he has to win 7 Championships bla bla bla? Wake up to yourselves. For those championships that Rossi won who was he up against? Did he have to go head to head with a former multiple world championship winner? No, Doohan had retired and the rest that were still going around were never able to lay a finger on Doohan. So it could be argued that Rossi was just the best of a weak bunch. At least Casey is proving himself against the incumbent "God" of motorcycle racing and guess what - HE IS KICKING HIS ARSE IN EVERY WAY.

Yes Rossi WAS great but he didn't win last year and he is not winning this year.

On the track now, today in this current year Casey Stoner is no Rossi - he is better! Yes he is better so stop insulting Casey by comparing him to somebody who just can't cut it today in 2007.It's a very good point you make TP, but one that the more sensible guys here will be well aware of. When Rossi won his first world title it was his for the taking. There was no outgoing King to topple. Of course there was Biaggi but poor old Max couldn't maintain any level of consistency on a bike that was unarguably inferior to Rossi's Burgess-fettled NSR. Not to take one single thing away from Rossi, he has dominated as Doohan did before him. Though it is also unarguable that Doohan took five world titles in the face of abject adversity, most notably his first. There was a changing of the guard then too as Mick had to contend with the new generation of European riders, Criville, Cadalora, Capirossi, Puig and Aussies like Beattie and a young Barros or even Abe. But most of the time he towed Criville or Criville chased him depending how you want to look at it. Rossi on the other hand has had only one credible challenger in his whole 500/motogp career, Sete Gibernau. Only for the emotional Spaniard we'd have had a very boring few years. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Rossi was the best of a bad bunch, but I would consider he was so talented as to make everyone else look mediocre. Now it's Casey Stoner making everybody look mediocre and at Donnington that everybody included Valentino Rossi. I have always had my reservations about lashing huge priase on Rossi because he never won any titles in the face of adversity or injury as Mick did and I've always wanted to see what Rossi is really made of when his back is against the wall, well, now at last we will. Wether or not Casy wins 1,3,4, or 7 titles won't make any difference to the here and now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>TP70 SPOT ON!!!...if you analyse Val’s racing through the years and as TP70 said, the opposition was pretty ........ then, but whenever he was under pressure, a perfect example was the last gp in 2006 at Valencia, Val didn’t produce, 2007 & to a certain extent 2006 were like being on mars for Val he didn’t know what hit him?

In 2007 especially, all these new riders who are giving it to him more than he can dish out and are not intimidated by his reputation, antics, dangerous overtaking then Val is unfortunately lost.


Sorry but I just can't agree with this. The point that I have made before is that, like Doohan, Rainey and god knows how many other riders, (see some of my other posts for more names if you need them) Vale lifted the bar in GP, and this season, Stoner has lifted it again. Yeah, Rossi came second last year, but he still won the most races. hardly the stuff of an over rated crappy rider is it?

Casey is the only guy in front of him in the championship, lets not forget that.

Doohan made everyone else look second rate through his career, was that because the opposition were crap? Schwantz? Cadalora? Biaggi? Criville? Come on. lets keep it grown up on here.

Valentino Rossi is still the most successful rider of his generation, Stoner has all the makings of a champion, and could go on to be a multi champ for years, or, he could be the next Freddie Spencer. It's early days, lets not rewrite history before it's happened.

Valentino has made one helluva mark on GP racing, just out of interest, was King Kenny overrated because he "only" won 3 titles?

Rossi has made an amazing impact on GP racing, if we have seen the end of title years (notice the word IF) then it doesnt suddenly mean that he has to be put down.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jun 26 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry but I just can't agree with this. The point that I have made before is that, like Doohan, Rainey and god knows how many other riders, (see some of my other posts for more names if you need them) Vale lifted the bar in GP, and this season, Stoner has lifted it again. Yeah, Rossi came second last year, but he still won the most races. hardly the stuff of an over rated crappy rider is it?I wouldn't dream of using tose words to describe Rossi Pete. Genuis or legend would be closer to the mark. It's more a case of Rossi never having any substantial obstacles to a motoGP title other than the occasional flash of brilliance from Gibernau. Last year was last year and doesn't really have any relevance to the present argument. This year, Stoner has won five races, no mean feat by any standards. But it also remains to be seen if he can sustain his current level of performance for a whole season so I strongly agree it's still premature to hail Stoner as the new King let alone predict how many championships he will win, but this is a forum so we'll get all kinds of opinions and observations. However is it not better to have 2 or 3 truly great riders battling hard for a title, as in the 1990's?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jun 26 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi has made an amazing impact on GP racing, if we have seen the end of title years (notice the word IF) then it doesnt suddenly mean that he has to be put down.No way and I wouldn't be so sure the title years are over just yet. It's just that they're going to get harder.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jun 25 2007, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For those championships that Rossi won who was he up against? So it could be argued that Rossi was just the best of a weak bunch. At least Casey is proving himself against the incumbent "God" of motorcycle racing
i would argue that rossi was up against more talent back then ,than stoner is now,
rossi had i lights of biaggi,kato,capi when he was hungry,gibbers just to name a few, who is stoner up against.. eerm just rossi ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jun 26 2007, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't dream of using tose words to describe Rossi Pete. Genuis or legend would be closer to the mark. It's more a case of Rossi never having any substantial obstacles to a motoGP title other than the occasional flash of brilliance from Gibernau. Last year was last year and doesn't really have any relevance to the present argument. This year, Stoner has won five races, no mean feat by any standards. But it also remains to be seen if he can sustain his current level of performance for a whole season so I strongly agree it's still premature to hail Stoner as the new King let alone predict how many championships he will win, but this is a forum so we'll get all kinds of opinions and observations. However is it not better to have 2 or 3 truly great riders battling hard for a title, as in the 1990's?
No way and I wouldn't be so sure the title years are over just yet. It's just that they're going to get harder.


Hey Skid, my reply wasnt aimed at you, to be honest, I think were both sayin the same thing. You know me, I get ratty when I hear the folks jumpin to have a pop at Vale.

Its hard to compare Vale to Doohan, Mick certainly did the damage against all the odds, and thats why he was the rider I followed right up to the last crash. A real hardcase racer, very different from Rossi. In my opinion, Doohan could have lifted more titles if it wasnt for Assen 92, it would have been a brave man to bet against him then. But thats "what "ifs, they dont win titles........


And yes, I agree, havin Casey take the fight to Vale like nobody has before is all good for racing.

Like I say, bring it on!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>i would argue that rossi was up against more talent back then ,than stoner is now,
rossi had i lights of biaggi,kato,capi when he was hungry,gibbers just to name a few, who is stoner up against.. eerm just rossi ?

I would argue as he didn’t...Ok let’s analyse what Rossi was up against when he started 500cc in 2000 and throughout motoGP; BIAGGI Yamaha, CAPIROSSI Honda, BARROS Honda & Yamaha, CRIVILLE Honda, ABE Yamaha, HAGA Yamaha, ROBERTS JR Suzuki, BAYLISS Ducati, EDWARDS Aprilia this is about the best of them. The field is more or less the same, what happend when Bayliss came back last year on a good bike....

Biaggi’s Yamaha was a crap bike all through Rossi’s reign, it wasn’t as fast, didn’t handle, didn’t come out of corners as fast as the Honda and
Biaggi just didn’t have the same riding technique to compete with Rossi, there was no contest in close racing, and all the other satellite Honda riders, Capirex was on a second hand Honda compared to Val. And throughout Rossi winning championships he use to win races by 30 seconds on an average. Gibernau was the only guy who gave it to Rossi but was intimidated beyond his skills which proved that he was not a great rider, a fast rider yes, but not a great rider! Who else???

There is not one rider from this list that could have given it to Rossi on a one on one basis like its happening in 2007, and yes I am not saying that the 2007 championship is all over but in 2007 there at least 4 riders that can win races if they get there act together. But in the past how many riders could have challenged Rossi, Burgess and the Honda team or the Yamaha motoGP team in its first year?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would argue as he didn’t...Ok let’s analyse what Rossi was up against when he started 500cc in 2000 and throughout motoGP; BIAGGI Yamaha, CAPIROSSI Honda, BARROS Honda & Yamaha, CRIVILLE Honda, ABE Yamaha, HAGA Yamaha, ROBERTS JR Suzuki, BAYLISS Ducati, EDWARDS Aprilia this is about the best of them. The field is more or less the same, what happend when Bayliss came back last year on a good bike....

Biaggi’s Yamaha was a crap bike all through Rossi’s reign, it wasn’t as fast, didn’t handle, didn’t come out of corners as fast as the Honda and
Biaggi just didn’t have the same riding technique to compete with Rossi, there was no contest in close racing, and all the other satellite Honda riders, Capirex was on a second hand Honda compared to Val. And throughout Rossi winning championships he use to win races by 30 seconds on an average. Gibernau was the only guy who gave it to Rossi but was intimidated beyond his skills which proved that he was not a great rider, a fast rider yes, but not a great rider! Who else???

There is not one rider from this list that could have given it to Rossi on a one on one basis like its happening in 2007, and yes I am not saying that the 2007 championship is all over but in 2007 there at least 4 riders that can win races if they get there act together. But in the past how many riders could have challenged Rossi, Burgess and the Honda team or the Yamaha motoGP team in its first year?
funny how you bring up the 500s, rossi won a championship on one,stoner didnt even get near one luckily for him ,wonder how he would have done on a real racers bike after all he proved the fast 990s were just to much for him. mabe you should look back at some old races 2000 on,there were some good fights between a lot of class riders its just non could do it season after season just like i predict stoner will fade.i wonder how these new superstars would ride without the traction control,like the real champs rossi doohan ect did.
to state rossi was the best of a weak bunch is total bollocks and its that statment that has rattled my cage

i don't dis-like any rider...although i do want Rossi to take it to them all...


Stoner IS the real deal, BUT his package is helping, it's only obvious...
the B-stones are the better tire this year..the Duck is the best bike...ALL the Jap bikes are under par this season (BIG TIME), Honda is on it's longest losing streak ever!....look at it this way...Stoner has always been good, i've watched him since the 125 days....BUT he was never this good...he never won a 125, 250 championship..he got his ... handed to him all the time by Padrobot then...now, Pedrobot can't even stay with him...Rossi has been the only one to give him a bit of fight this year so far...but if all the other manufactures don't step it up, Stoner is gonna take it...there's not enough mixing it up, up front....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 26 2007, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi has been the only one to give him a bit of fight this year so far...but if all the other manufactures don't step it up, Stoner is gonna take it...there's not enough mixing it up, up front....

i know what you mean, it seems that there is only Rossi and Stoner racing in this gp at the moment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>to state rossi was the best of a weak bunch is total bollocks and its that statment that has rattled my cage

Come on Roge... ...stop getting your cage rattled so easily...lol ....Stoner was still in nappies prior to 2000!

But I’m sure Casey would have handled it as his riding style is very aggressive and very much suited to ringing the neck of a two stroke beast, he would have been perfect....WOW...how I wish Casey would have been around then before Val and joined the Honda team with Doohan, Burgess giving him all the advice and management to prove you wrong Roge!!! That would have been a match made in heaven for us aussies...lol ...but the Duke team is just as good but not as perfect as that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>stoner didnt even get near one luckily for him ,wonder how he would have done on a real racers bike after all he proved the fast 990s were just to much for him

What allot of bullocks Roge....the 990 LCR was a DOG on two wheels...plus as Casey said they just didn’t want to listen to his setting up advice....LCR knew better and that is why 2006 went like it did for Casey!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But I’m sure Casey would have handled it as his riding style is very aggressive and very much suited to ringing the neck of a two stroke beast, he would have been perfect.

What allot of bullocks Roge....the 990 LCR was a DOG on two wheels...plus as Casey said they just didn’t want to listen to his setting up advice....LCR knew better and that is why 2006 went like it did for Casey!!!

1st, stoner hardly shone on a 250 2 stroke so what makes you think he could have ridden a vicious nsr 500. remember these bikes had non of the electronic wizardry that stoner now enjoys on his gp7 .

2nd, the lcr may have not been the fastest bike on the grid but he still couldnt get the thing around the corners because that also had non of this wizardry the ducati now has. this electronics sorts out the riders stupidity like dialing in to much rev to soon and getting high sided.
so i put it to you ,it's not so much "his perfect style" as you put it but more the bike wont allow anything else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 27 2007, 04:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1st, stoner hardly shone on a 250 2 stroke so what makes you think he could have ridden a vicious nsr 500. remember these bikes had non of the electronic wizardry that stoner now enjoys on his gp7 .

2nd, the lcr may have not been the fastest bike on the grid but he still couldnt get the thing around the corners because that also had non of this wizardry the ducati now has. this electronics sorts out the riders stupidity like dialing in to much rev to soon and getting high sided.
so i put it to you ,it's not so much "his perfect style" as you put it but more the bike wont allow anything else.

1st ...Yes he did he came second in the championship until he bind it at phillip Island and lost the championship, he was magnificent considering Pedrobot had the best and fastest greatest in 250’s...what else did you want him to do, plus he gave Pedrobot quite a start in the championship!!!
2nd The LCR was very quick, what Casey had 1 pole, and could have had about 3 more last year, but the LCR didn’t handle. Lucio Cecchinello and his mechanics just wouldn’t listen to Casey in the setup of the bike to suite his riding that is what Casey said about last year and it was pretty evident this year that the same thing is happening again! How many races has Carlos finished out of 8 so far? By this time last year Casey got a 2nd and could have won at Turkey, how many high sides has Carlos had? The same scenarios with the LCR different rider, but mind you Carlos is a much more experienced rider, and no one is saying that he’s a crasher, what they’re saying is that the Michelins are this and the Honda 800 is that!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1st ...Yes he did he came second in the championship until he bind it at phillip Island and lost the championship, he was magnificent considering Pedrobot had the best and fastest greatest in 250’s...what else did you want him to do, plus he gave Pedrobot quite a start in the championship!!!
2nd The LCR was very quick, what Casey had 1 pole, and could have had about 3 more last year, but the LCR didn’t handle. Lucio Cecchinello and his mechanics just wouldn’t listen to Casey in the setup of the bike to suite his riding that is what Casey said about last year and it was pretty evident this year that the same thing is happening again! How many races has Carlos finished out of 8 so far? By this time last year Casey got a 2nd and could have won at Turkey, how many high sides has Carlos had? The same scenarios with the LCR different rider, but mind you Carlos is a much more experienced rider, and no one is saying that he’s a crasher, what they’re saying is that the Michelins are this and the Honda 800 is that!!!
well since in an earler post you said he was on a rossi doohan scale i woulds have expected him to win the championship since you ask.
second stoner or moaner as he was known said lcr would not set the bike up as he wanted, well im not surprised, his mechanics had enough work re building the bike after every time he went out on it. a bit hard the the engineers to get a datum when it comes back in bags,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How many races has Carlos finished out of 8 so far? By this time last year Casey got a 2nd and could have won at Turkey, how many high sides has Carlos had?

Carlos is a .... rider, the team isn't playing a factor in that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 27 2007, 06:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well since in an earler post you said he was on a rossi doohan scale i woulds have expected him to win the championship since you ask.
second stoner or moaner as he was known said lcr would not set the bike up as he wanted, well im not surprised, his mechanics had enough work re building the bike after every time he went out on it. a bit hard the the engineers to get a datum when it comes back in bags,

Hahahaha...Casey will be BETTER than MD & VR....LOOK AT 2007!!! This will be a partnership made in the Dukes of HEAVEN....prediction for 2007 to 2014 8 straight WC's, 15 GP wins in 2007 etc etc....and how LCR and Mr Cecchinello would wish Casey was still on board...NOT that we would!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hahahaha...Casey will be BETTER than MD & VR....LOOK AT 2007!!! This will be a partnership made in the Dukes of HEAVEN...
well mate, as ive said in loads of posts, stoner is on top form and looking unbeatable so far this season,but dont get to far ahead of yourself, there is still 10 races left.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CSCVAW @ Jun 26 2007, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hahahaha...Casey will be BETTER than MD & VR....LOOK AT 2007!!! This will be a partnership made in the Dukes of HEAVEN....prediction for 2007 to 2014 8 straight WC's, 15 GP wins in 2007 etc etc....and how LCR and Mr Cecchinello would wish Casey was still on board...NOT that we would!!!

Do you know how sad and deluded that sounded?

I guess if Casey were a 'Pom' you'd still give him this love and support?

If Casey gets these 8 striahgt championships, I'll eat my dog's turd.

If not, shut up.

i don't remember this many Stoner fans last year.

bandwagonjumpers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 26 2007, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't remember this many Stoner fans last year.

bandwagonjumpers.
hayden refugees mate