Casey Stoner

I see where you are coming from.

But I myself am not fully convinced that Stoner, if his Ducati had the power the Yam currently had, and Rossi's Yam had the power the Ducati did, he wouldn't be contending for the win, a podium easily, but not the win.

Exacly.Point made.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (250stroker @ May 8 2007, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To compare the Duc advantage on the straights to Yamaha's cornering advantage is bollocks.The Duc was pulling nearly a second on the straight the Yam at best was worth 2 or 3 tenths a lap through the twisty's.Don't get me wrong,i'm a Rossi fan through and through the fact is,Stoner has won at circuits the Duc was expected to win at and what a great job he has done,he's riding his arse off.As for the Rossi versus Edwards scenario,the fact is,the Yam is a good bit off the pace but the Rossi ability disguises this,like previously said,put Stoner on the Yam and Rossi on the Duc and Stoner would not be top 5 in most races.The way i look at it is,Stoner is riding well and winning races,however,he's not winning them by the distance he could be.If Rossi was riding the Duc at these first 3 races,i honestly think Rossi would be winning races by 20 to 30 seconds,IMO thats the difference.Love it or hate it,the championship winner this year will have 46 on his bike.Casey will win it in the coming years but experience will tell this year.As for "World #1" they should let pudding belly ride a 2000cc bike this year to haul his haybale humping ... round this year

The Ducati was gaining more like half a second on the straight (try not to exaggerate), and it is impossible to judge how well or poorly either bike corners, but i think the difference at shanghai made it almost totally fair (Rossi's faster lap times being made by the little extra skill he has). Edwards is obviously crap and picked an even worse tire, its pretty obvious that the Yamaha is currently the second best package on the track and when we get to Europe it will be the best quite handsomely.

I also think Rossi will win the title this year, but it wont be as easy as he would like it.

Sorry for the exageration,not. .... me,the seasons 3 races old and people are wanking over Stoner.I like the kid,he,s quick,he has talent and an excocet missile under his boney ...,but HE WILL NOT WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR. I notice you erred away from mentioning the the ability gap should they switch bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (250stroker @ May 8 2007, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I notice you erred away from mentioning the the ability gap should they switch bikes.

OK, you ring Rossi and tell him our plan . You can "if he rode this and he did that" all day and its pointless. Stoner is riding on top form, and the skill he is displaying should not be underestimated. There is a difference between "wanking all over" a rider, and giving him credit because i feel he is riding fantastically well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Problem is that you can't possibly quantify the Yamahas corner advantage.
I've been to lots of trackdays, and I've been racing against rookies, and past time heros. Let's look at the other Yamaha, and where that was. Opps, #11 in the race, well two seconds off the pace. Must be a terrible bike when his that far down. He had no power on the straight and no grip in the corners, what does that tell you about the Yamahas corner advantage?

So you compare Colin Edwards with Capirossi ? Edwards is a very strange guy who sometimes does a fantastic race and suddenly, the next 8 races, you don't see the guy. When he was in the same team as Gibernau, it was the same thing with Edwards. You never saw the guy but in 2 or 3 races a year, he managed to finish in front. But Capirossi is much more consistent than Edwards. No way, you can compare Edwards with Capirossi. I guess Edwards isn't very gifted when it comes down to setting up his bike. And if you watch this season, I remember Edwards finish on podium but Capirossi was never able to fight in the front. If you consider Capirossi is 10 times better than Edwards, than maybe, the Yamaha had indeed a corner advantage. Anyway, I am not going to discuss this further as it is publicly known that the Yamaha has a corner advantage over the Ducati. I heard people of Yamaha claiming this themselves so who am I to say that it isn't true.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let's try this again. Corner advantage, if any, means little when your oponent is in front of you, and have heaps of power to save him on the exit. Power advantage so big that no one can stay in the draft is a tremendous advantage. When the corner advantage is enough for anyoune to ride around him in corners it's comparable, until that the corner advantage doesn't mean .... on a track like that.
You look blindly on top speed. Forget it. First of all, last rase had a kink on the back straight and if you look closely you will see that few had anything close to Rossi's speed out of that kink. Let's not confuse power from balls. Also considering that he went a little to fast at the same place on the first lap.
Secondly, it's about power, and even if the Ducatis allways been fast they never been so fast out of the corners. As soon as traction controll let go they explode compared to the other bikes. None are able to stay in the draft of a skilled driver like stoner, and I for one have never seen anything like that in MotoGP before.
If you say the corner advantage isn't important, I just stop the discussion here. I am not going to waste my efforst in discussing some crappy comments. It is very simple, Stoner has advantage in the straight lines, Rossi in the corners. On some tracks Stoner will have more advantage, on others Rossi. It is just up to Rossi to race and shout his mouth. Maybe, just maybe, the new guys are beating him because they are better than him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sounds to me as if you are affraid he might be right. Btw, do you have a link to his comments about Pedrosa? Nice to know the exact wording there. Lots of people you must hate though, as many has commented on Pedrosas weight. Funny thing is that the same people doomed Pedrosa as too small too handle the 990. As soon as they saw that he can, then he has an unfair advantage of being light.


I am not afraid he is right. He is right, Pedrosa is leighter than him. And even if that is an advantage, which I doubt, so what ? Did you ever watch cycling ? Leighter people are always better in the mountains than the heavier people. But I never heard the heavy people complain about that and ask the organisers of the tour de france to let them climb the mountains with a 15 kg bag of potatoes on their bags, did you ? If weight is an advantage than Pedrosa is lucky and Rossi has bad luck. Maybe Rossi has always had an advantage with respect to the rest of the field. Maybe he has the perfect height/weigth ratio of all the current drivers in the field. What about Michael Jordan ? I am a better basket player than him but I am 70 cm smaller than him. Is that unfair ? What about that ? Let him play on his knees ? What about Hamilton in F1 ? I am a better driver than him but I never got the opportunity to proof myself because of the lack of money or whatever ? And my neighbour is even a better driver than me, but the poor guy is blind. So should the FIA have to decide now to take everyones eyes out because else they have an advantage compared with the blind people ? Oh c'mon, make the guy just shut up and ride his bike.

I don't feel like searching what Rossi said on the internet. I think he said it at the beginning of the season because he was afraid of Pedrosa. But since Pedrosa is have a ...... season he stopped his crap and even shaked hands with him. Rossi is more or less like Mourinho. If he beats you, you are his friend. But if you beat him, you are his enemy.

Conclusion: Go Casey, I have 100 % sympathy for you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (250stroker @ May 8 2007, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>put Stoner on the Yam and Rossi on the Duc and Stoner would not be top 5 in most races.

You can't proof this statement. Stoner is a very good driver. He made Pedrosas life hard in his last year of 250 cc. And he is definitely better suited for motoGP than Pedrosa. So it is no surprise for me he is a top driver. And guess what, I see him winning the championship. And if he wins next race, Rossi will go coconuts and start feeling pressure and fall and make mistakes like he did last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you say the corner advantage isn't important, I just stop the discussion here. I am not going to waste my efforst in discussing some crappy comments. It is very simple, Stoner has advantage in the straight lines, Rossi in the corners. On some tracks Stoner will have more advantage, on others Rossi. It is just up to Rossi to race and shout his mouth. Maybe, just maybe, the new guys are beating him because they are better than him.

I think Babels point was that in the race situation, Rossi's corner advantage is extremely difficult to capitalize on because there is one optimum line through each bend. On the straight there is plenty of room to use an advantage. This was represented in China by Rossi's faster lap times than Casey's but him not being able to get passed. Rossi's game had to be to get stoner to make an error, and he cracked first and lost the race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 8 2007, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Babels point was that in the race situation, Rossi's corner advantage is extremely difficult to capitalize on because there is one optimum line through each bend. On the straight there is plenty of room to use an advantage. This was represented in China by Rossi's faster lap times than Casey's but him not being able to get passed. Rossi's game had to be to get stoner to make an error, and he cracked first and lost the race.

Ok, if you want it that way.

1. Rossi had a huge tyre advantage during qualifying and gave him the pole very easily.

2. So Rossi started at pole position, Casey at 4th. I think Rossi got passed by Stoner in lap 4 or something. So he had 4 laps to make a gap according to your theory but he wasn't able to do so and got passed by Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, if you want it that way.

1. Rossi had a huge tyre advantage during qualifying and gave him the pole very easily.

2. So Rossi started at pole position, Casey at 4th. I think Rossi got passed by Stoner in lap 4 or something. So he had 4 laps to make a gap according to your theory but he wasn't able to do so and got passed by Stoner.

point taken, i was under the impression Rossi was setting faster laps than Casey quite a lot, but i just checked the stats and Casey was actually stronger than i originally thought. However the original point about the corner advantage being in a harder place to use remain, but even it cannot change the fact that Rossi/Yamaha/Michelin has been out done again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (250stroker @ May 8 2007, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry for the exageration,not. .... me,the seasons 3 races old and people are wanking over Stoner.I like the kid,he,s quick,he has talent and an excocet missile under his boney ...,but HE WILL NOT WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR. I notice you erred away from mentioning the the ability gap should they switch bikes.
1st of all, the season is 4 races old.

2ndly Casey is doing a great job, for sure a part has to do with Ducati's advantage, but still the guy hasn't made a mistake this season. He won 3 out of 4 races, and that's something nobody was expecting (I wasn't).

The season is still long, so anything can happen..
But if Yamaha won't reduce the gap, Casey might as well win the title this season.

About the bike switching thing..
I also think Rossi would do a better job than Casey, BUT who cares really?? It's not the case anyway..we should talk about facts and not about what would/could have happened ''if''...

Anyway, hopefully Rossi will win the title

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 9 2007, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And if he [Stoner] wins next race, Rossi will go coconuts and start feeling pressure and fall and make mistakes like he did last year.
I know you guys are in the middle of a serious discussion and all, but this made me laugh out loud.

What would Rossi look like going coconuts?

Btw, if you're reading Jumkie feel free NOT to post a picture, thanks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you compare Colin Edwards with Capirossi ? Edwards is a very strange guy who sometimes does a fantastic race and suddenly, the next 8 races, you don't see the guy. When he was in the same team as Gibernau, it was the same thing with Edwards. You never saw the guy but in 2 or 3 races a year, he managed to finish in front. But Capirossi is much more consistent than Edwards. No way, you can compare Edwards with Capirossi. I guess Edwards isn't very gifted when it comes down to setting up his bike. And if you watch this season, I remember Edwards finish on podium but Capirossi was never able to fight in the front. If you consider Capirossi is 10 times better than Edwards, than maybe, the Yamaha had indeed a corner advantage.
You say comparing Edwards with Capirossi is oranges to apples. I say they are both firmly put as second rider on their team. They have about the same amount of points, so they are quite comparable.
While I agree that Capirossi has a better track record than Edwards, he sure as hell haven't lived up to it this year. You are comparing Stoner with the magnificent Capirossi that simply doesn't do anything right now to prove how good stoner are.
As you said, Edwards has been on the podium this year, Capirossi hardly near, so right now it seems clear that he is the better rider of the two.
So, if you can measure ducatis performance with Capirossi, it should be more than fair that I measure Yamahas performance with the two time world champion Edwards. And also comparing Capriossi with edwards seem like the closest you can get comparing two riders with two different bikes right now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Anyway, I am not going to discuss this further as it is publicly known that the Yamaha has a corner advantage over the Ducati. I heard people of Yamaha claiming this themselves so who am I to say that it isn't true.
Another surpricing statment without any references I supose. No doubt they say Rossi has a cornerspeed advantage, thats for anyone to see. Problem is the cantary to the straight line power, cornering takes skill. Skill of the rider and his mechanics and the whole team.
Probably the Yamaha is part of that advantage, but how much is for us to more or less make qualified guesses. Mostly less qualified guesses.

So the Yamaha <u>is </u>very good, problem is, how good is the Ducati?
The GP5 and GP6 had shortcomings in the handling department, while this years bike look very stable and quite nimble. And Ducati sure don't complain in that compartment either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>If you say the corner advantage isn't important, I just stop the discussion here. I am not going to waste my efforst in discussing some crappy comments.
Stop whining lik a 5 year old kid! I'm only writing the obvious here. To gain anything from a corner speed advantage when the other has the power advantage and the line in front is very difficult. If you don't know that, yes then you should stop wasting our time here.
It's nothing crappy about that, it's based on a true love for the sport, racing experience and technical knowledge. It might not be too much of two later parts, but enough to know what I'm talking about.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>It is very simple, Stoner has advantage in the straight lines, Rossi in the corners.
And ask 1000 racers and 999 will take the power advantage. (The #1000 was Rossi going to Yamaha, that crazy ........)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>He is right, Pedrosa is leighter than him. And even if ..............
bla bla bla bla bla.
If you read my post properly you will see that I make fun of those screaming baout the weight advantage. So to go on defending yourself with all those "funny" comparisons in the world, it's a waste of time as I agree that there is no reason make a point out of that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I don't feel like searching what Rossi said on the internet. I think he said it at the beginning of the season because he was afraid of Pedrosa. But since Pedrosa is have a ...... season he stopped his crap and even shaked hands with him.
If I remember correctly I think he might have said somethings in the lines of part of what make Pedrosa dangerous is his low weight.
Now most people don't consider that hypocritical as weight is allways an issue, only a fool wouldn't consider it when measuring up his competition, and it's a long way from that to talking about unfair advantage, but if that's what he said, just search it up and present it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi is more or less like Mourinho. If he beats you, yo
u are his friend. But if you beat him, you are his enemy.
There is a lot of racing and post race interviews you haven't seen young man, isn't it?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok, if you want it that way.

1. Rossi had a huge tyre advantage during qualifying and gave him the pole very easily.

2. So Rossi started at pole position, Casey at 4th. I think Rossi got passed by Stoner in lap 4 or something. So he had 4 laps to make a gap according to your theory but he wasn't able to do so and got passed by Stoner.

I'm a bit confused here who is "he", Rossi or Stoner.
Rossi never had the lead for a whole lap. On the first lap they swaped places in the last two corners and I'm unsure of who passed the line first, but stoner were first into the first corner on lap two, and after that Stoner was first over the line on every lap.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 8 2007, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but even it cannot change the fact that Rossi/Yamaha/Michelin has been out done again.

True, and i'm not saying anything different.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anyway, I am not going to discuss this further as it is publicly known that the Yamaha has a corner advantage over the Ducati. I heard people of Yamaha claiming this themselves so who am I to say that it isn't true.
If you say the corner advantage isn't important, I just stop the discussion here. I am not going to waste my efforst in discussing some crappy comments. It is very simple, Stoner has advantage in the straight lines, Rossi in the corners. On some tracks Stoner will have more advantage, on others Rossi. It is just up to Rossi to race and shout his mouth. Maybe, just maybe, the new guys are beating him because they are better than him.
I am not afraid he is right. He is right, Pedrosa is leighter than him. And even if that is an advantage, which I doubt, so what ? Did you ever watch cycling ? Leighter people are always better in the mountains than the heavier people. But I never heard the heavy people complain about that and ask the organisers of the tour de france to let them climb the mountains with a 15 kg bag of potatoes on their bags, did you ? If weight is an advantage than Pedrosa is lucky and Rossi has bad luck. Maybe Rossi has always had an advantage with respect to the rest of the field. Maybe he has the perfect height/weigth ratio of all the current drivers in the field. What about Michael Jordan ? I am a better basket player than him but I am 70 cm smaller than him. Is that unfair ? What about that ? Let him play on his knees ? What about Hamilton in F1 ? I am a better driver than him but I never got the opportunity to proof myself because of the lack of money or whatever ? And my neighbour is even a better driver than me, but the poor guy is blind. So should the FIA have to decide now to take everyones eyes out because else they have an advantage compared with the blind people ? Oh c'mon, make the guy just shut up and ride his bike.

I don't feel like searching what Rossi said on the internet. I think he said it at the beginning of the season because he was afraid of Pedrosa. But since Pedrosa is have a ...... season he stopped his crap and even shaked hands with him. Rossi is more or less like Mourinho. If he beats you, you are his friend. But if you beat him, you are his enemy.

Conclusion: Go Casey, I have 100 % sympathy for you.
You can't proof this statement. Stoner is a very good driver. He made Pedrosas life hard in his last year of 250 cc. And he is definitely better suited for motoGP than Pedrosa. So it is no surprise for me he is a top driver. And guess what, I see him winning the championship. And if he wins next race, Rossi will go coconuts and start feeling pressure and fall and make mistakes like he did last year.
Sorry, I have nothing to add, I just wanted to re-quote you because it’s so good, especially the parts I highlighted. Haha, funny stuff.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (250stroker @ May 8 2007, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the seasons 3 races old and people are wanking over Stoner.I like the kid,he,s quick,he has talent and an excocet missile under his boney ...,but HE WILL NOT WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR. I notice you erred away from mentioning the the ability gap should they switch bikes.
Yeah, you're right, when people win its because of their bike. It even gets you championships, like say 2001-2005. (Please man, give the guy alittle more credit).

You heard it here first, Casey will not win the championship!

Hey, while you're at it, can you give me next weeks lottery numbers?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 8 2007, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, I have nothing to add, I just wanted to re-quote you because it’s so good, especially the parts I highlighted. Haha, funny stuff.
Yeah, you're right, when people win its because of their bike. It even gets you championships, like say 2001-2005. (Please man, give the guy alittle more credit).

You heard it hear first, Casey will not win the championship!

Hey, while you're at it, can you give me next weeks lottery numbers?
a new mindless cheerleader,but not in our camp.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ May 8 2007, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not convinced Valentino would beat Casey at the moment even if he were on a Ducati. Valentino is the master on the brakes, but like I say Casey is making his ground on the exit of 'the twisty bits'! Somehow the combination of Casey's riding style and the Ducati is allowing him to get the Ducati out of the corners like some sort of rocket ship!

Getting the drive out of corners is where Casey's advantage is, and I'm not convinced Valentino's riding style would create the same advantage.
Casey is very good at the exit, and as he said himself they were working <u>a lot</u> on the last corner out on the back straight but ... I just watched a few laps in replay and there are minimal change in distance between the two through that turn, in time I would say the difference is less when they are well into the exit compared to the beginning of the turn, but as the bikes straighten up, thats when the the ducati lights it's rockets.

Seriously, I've had quite a few studies of Rossi exciting turns, and when he went to Yamaha the first year, he were able to disguise a heavily underpowered bike with his exits. He was in a class of his own. Nodays traction control are getting better and it's more difficult to get an advantage but still, if stoner wasn't the next best thing out there, Rossi would have been climbing on the outside of him in that long, long curve. He didn't and that's all because Stoner is really good and did his homework on that all important exit.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey is very good at the exit, and as he said himself they were working <u>a lot</u> on the last corner out on the back straight but ... I just watched a few laps in replay and there are minimal change in distance between the two through that turn, in time I would say the difference is less when they are well into the exit compared to the beginning of the turn, but as the bikes straighten up, thats when the the ducati lights it's rockets.

Seriously, I've had quite a few studies of Rossi exciting turns, and when he went to Yamaha the first year, he were able to disguise a heavily underpowered bike with his exits. He was in a class of his own. Nodays traction control are getting better and it's more difficult to get an advantage but still, if stoner wasn't the next best thing out there, Rossi would have been climbing on the outside of him in that long, long curve. He didn't and that's all because Stoner is really good and did his homework on that all important exit.

Well, traction control may limit the amount of wheel spin the bikes will do, but it is still the riders skill and judgment to shift his weight appropriately, and in doing so find more grip so that the computers let more power hit the deck. So cornering is still very much a skill, and Rossi is very much the master of corner exit. He was so much faster than anyone else coming onto the back straight in china and he has developed the bike over the winter to be good in this area and highlight his advantage. Thats what made the difference in Jerez i think.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 8 2007, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, traction control may limit the amount of wheel spin the bikes will do, but it is still the riders skill and judgment to shift his weight appropriately, and in doing so find more grip so that the computers let more power hit the deck. So cornering is still very much a skill, and Rossi is very much the master of corner exit. He was so much faster than anyone else coming onto the back straight in china and he has developed the bike over the winter to be good in this area and highlight his advantage. Thats what made the difference in Jerez i think.

I agree in all what you say, only that traction control has more or less taken throttle control out of the equation, and with that differences get smaller. But your right, I watched another few laps when Rossi regulary passed Stoner in the middle of the race and he did get quite a few metres through that turn.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You say comparing Edwards with Capirossi is oranges to apples. I say they are both firmly put as second rider on their team. They have about the same amount of points, so they are quite comparable.
While I agree that Capirossi has a better track record than Edwards, he sure as hell haven't lived up to it this year. You are comparing Stoner with the magnificent Capirossi that simply doesn't do anything right now to prove how good stoner are.
As you said, Edwards has been on the podium this year, Capirossi hardly near, so right now it seems clear that he is the better rider of the two.
So, if you can measure ducatis performance with Capirossi, it should be more than fair that I measure Yamahas performance with the two time world champion Edwards. And also comparing Capriossi with edwards seem like the closest you can get comparing two riders with two different bikes right now.

Your conclusion is so simple . Maybe the Yamaha is better than the Ducati ... Capirossi has achieved much more than Edwards, even last year he outperformed Colin Edwards. And this year, suddenly, for the first time in history of motogp, he is in front of him. So my conclusion is that the Yamahas corner speed/handling is indeed a bigger advantage than the straight line speed ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another surpricing statment without any references I supose. No doubt they say Rossi has a cornerspeed advantage, thats for anyone to see. Problem is the cantary to the straight line power, cornering takes skill. Skill of the rider and his mechanics and the whole team.
Probably the Yamaha is part of that advantage, but how much is for us to more or less make qualified guesses. Mostly less qualified guesses.
Listen, I am not going to look for references I once read. It takes a hell of a time to find them. I got better to do than wasting time searching for references. Look for it yourself. You think I am a liar ? Ok, think whatever you want. I don't care. But if you don't know the Ducati is much harder to steer into the corners than the Yamaha, than I really wonder what you are doing when you watch motogp. It is just a known fact that it is extremely difficult to steer the ducati into a corner. Everyone who follows motogp a little bit knows that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm only writing the obvious here. To gain anything from a corner speed advantage when the other has the power advantage and the line in front is very difficult. If you don't know that, yes then you should stop wasting our time here.
It's nothing crappy about that, it's based on a true love for the sport, racing experience and technical knowledge. It might not be too much of two later parts, but enough to know what I'm talking about.

Look, if you have the fastest bike in the world but you can't handle it in the corners you will win nothing. I mean, that's just a simple fact and I think with all that 'experience' you got, you should know that either. You can't just ignore the fact that Rossi has an advantage in the corners, end of it. And if he has a gap of 2 seconds with Stoner thx to some straight line, he is able to close it in 2 corners because of the corner advantage. If you watch the race you can just see that so easily. So don't ........ me with "there doesn't exist a corner advantage", because I don't buy that. Anyway, I admit it is hard to say "straight line" speed is more important than "corner speed". You can't say that. It depends of the track. But I think it is hypocrite from Rossi to say Stoner wins because of his straight line speed; and when he wins he just smiles and says he just was the best. He won a race 2 or 3 weeks ago, Stoner still had a faster bike than Rossi in the straight lines but Rossi managed to beat him. Even Pedrosa and Edwards beated him in that race. And why was that ? Because Rossi was so wonderfull ? No, it was because of the disadvantage Stoner had on that track. But Stoner didn't whine like Rossi, did he ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If I remember correctly I think he might have said somethings in the lines of part of what make Pedrosa dangerous is his low weight.
Now most people don't consider that hypocritical as weight is allways an issue, only a fool wouldn't consider it when measuring up his competition, and it's a long way from that to talking about unfair advantage, but if that's what he said, just search it up and present it.

Look, I know what Rossi said. To find the article is just a matter of time. Since you don't know where to find the article I once read, but I also don't remember where I read it we will both spent an equal amount of time looking for it. But since you are the one who didn't read it I suggest you to look it up yourself. He said it in the mind game period where he called pedrosa a little kid ... Oh but right, I am sure according to you he didn't say that neither and I have to find the reference, no ? Well I am not going to look it up. There is no need to convince you about that. I am convinced and Rossi lost a lot of credit for me because he said so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 8 2007, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There is a lot of racing and post race interviews you haven't seen young man, isn't it?
I'm a bit confused here who is "he", Rossi or Stoner.
Rossi never had the lead for a whole lap. On the first lap they swaped places in the last two corners and I'm unsure of who passed the line first, but stoner were first into the first corner on lap two, and after that Stoner was first over the line on every lap.
True, and i'm not saying anything different.

Well, Rossi would have lost the battle anyway because the finish was at the straigth line. But like I said earlier, on this track Stoner maybe had an advantage, but on others Rossi has/had the advantage. And in the previous races were Stoner won, Rossi didn't stand the slightest chance of beating Stoner. The kiddo was just bloody fast.

Anyway, I am going to stop this discussion as it is becoming a yes-no-yes-no discussion. Let's just say, Rossi should shut his mouth and race. When he doesn't win, he is always whining. It is easy to be happy and smile when you win. But Rossis face when he loses is just disgusting and I really had enough of this guy. Elias drives like a nutscase, Pedrosa is too leight, Stoners bike is too fast, ... Well, if Stoners bike is too fast it is a pity for Rossi. Motogp is a motorsport and you depend on your equipment. It is even worse in formula 1 and I never heard any F1 driver complain about his equipment as much as Rossi. Just accept the fact tha you are going to lose this championship to Casey

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ May 8 2007, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know you guys are in the middle of a serious discussion and all, but this made me laugh out loud.

Rossi showed he can't handle pressure once he gets in a difficult position. Like for example the last race of last year where he lost the championship because he fell like an amateur because of the pressure. Or what about this race where he made several times the same mistake at the same position because Stoner is really giving him a bad time. I wonder when he is going to criticize Stoner to destabilize him, and what will he say ? I think he will say something like: "Stoner is not worth being first. He is leading because of his bike not because of his talent." Just a guess.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ May 8 2007, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What would Rossi look like going coconuts?
Do you know Krusty the clown ?

^^What the Hell??? Hey dude, Its my job to write essays on this site.^^



When Rossi wins, he is the hero. When somebody else wins, the bike, the engine, the tires, the aerodynamics are the heroes. Which makes sense because the bikes of the other competitors are remote control.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Listen, I am not going to look for references I once read. It takes a hell of a time to find them. I got better to do than wasting time searching for references. Look for it yourself.
Googling is not that hard, I do it all the time.

That's how I get all my information; I never actually look at the races and analyze them. I read everybody else’s analysis, then form mine based on second hand commentary. I guess Googling just comes easy to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Blah Blah, blah, blah, blah

I would've taken your points seriosly had it not been for a simple reason.

Your post is full of Rossi hate and it's so biased it's unbelieveable.

Rossi usually wins week-in, week-out because he can get the best out of his available package. Not because he is a 'hero'.

God!