Casey Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi V.
#1 My first point was to say that Rossi won on better machinery on both the Honda and the Yamaha. Yes Honda is sought after no doubt, but my point is that Yamaha is not all that "second" rate, as people would like us to believe. In fact Yamaha and Honda for years have traded championship. Now put Rossi on a Suzuki or Kawasaki and win one would be really impressive if you want to go about saying he can win on inferior machinery. But to say he has won on inferior machinery on either e Honda or Yamaha is a matter of degree, and the degree is almost frivolous IMO.

Yeap, it definitely is not that crappy of course… He kind of did that on 2004’s first race though, was impressive. But you are right now, if he pulled it out on a Suz’s or Kawa… Bloody hell!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#2 What is your point?

Oh ok, it was that ‘5 or 6 wins since’ argument; I count 5 and some count 6. Anyway, back there I pointed out Rossi, Hayden and Pedrosa’s data since their last win to state that it matters not. If it’s 5 for Rossi, then 7 on Hayden, 9 on Pedrosa and Cero for Stoner. If it’s 6 for Rossi, then 8 on Hayden and 10 on Pedrosa and (still not convinced) 1 on Stoner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#3 So that is why you come out with all those tables and stats, Nice!

Exactly my man, they all come out of data on my file… it does get a small mistake now and then (wasn’t such a small mistake), for example I didn’t have ‘Jr.’ on Roberts Jr. so you could imagine! I try to clean that up a lot… If you like I could upload it, but it is in Spanish and last time I tried to translate it maid a big mess with the dynamic tables searching ‘Names’ that I changed… What can be done is to upload just the table data, roar and you mates could filter it…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#4 What is your point?

Here I meant to find in ‘Google’ a race where Hayden did blame and complain about his Honda not been equal, but it would not be data, it be in a text interview or so… that’s why the ‘Google it’… I imagine there is one complain out there somewhere, could not bother.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>#5 Confused? I don't get it

This just was a joke… just that I was kind of ‘in the middle of the argument too’ and did not get my door slammed even once on the essay… it’s all cool to everyone and fun for all of us really!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>BTW: sorry about your accident, it must have been fun though assuming you're not damaged.

Yeah mate, got out of it ok, not for the pried matter, still hurts! I’m not sure if the whole track was misplaced by a foot!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 15 2007, 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This just was a joke… just that I was kind of ‘in the middle of the argument too’ and did not get my door slammed even once on the essay

Ah, I get it, you felt alittle left out. I could be rash and nasty to you too if you like, just say something bias about Rossi or Hayden and I'll jump right in...

No worries man, its all of us expressing what we hold dear. I've noticed you have a bit of a Rossi inclination, but I haven't yet got you on the "worshipers" camp just yet. But you could always change my mind.


Bueno pues espero que tu noche este bien. Sige la buena lucha amigo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, I get it, you felt alittle left out. I could be rash and nasty to you too if you like, just say something bias about Rossi or Hayden and I'll jump right in...

No worries man, its all of us expressing what we hold dear. I've noticed you have a bit of a Rossi inclination, but I haven't yet got you on the "worshipers" camp just yet. But you could always change my mind.

Let me help... Rossi is the greatest, never fails, it is always the bike if not he mechanics or the parts to come… sounds like Biaggi, how come?



PS. Biaggi is a great rider too!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 15 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bueno pues espero que tu noche este bien. Sige la buena lucha amigo.

Igualmente 'my friend'...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Mar 15 2007, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let me help... Rossi is the greatest, never fails, it is always the bike if not he mechanics or the parts to come… sounds like Biaggi, how come?



PS. Biaggi is a great rider too!

Haha, ha (ja ja ja--laughing in Spanish)

Actually, I felt Biaggi had a bad wrap, especially vilified by some Rossi fans. I always felt he was a misunderstood man. Maybe it’s just that I'm a bleeding heart since his mother abandoned him at a young age. I've always felt that he fought with many personal demons. I like the guy for what he had to overcome.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi V.
#1 My first point was to say that Rossi won on better machinery on both the Honda and the Yamaha. Yes Honda is sought after no doubt, but my point is that Yamaha is not all that "second" rate, as people would like us to believe. In fact Yamaha and Honda for years have traded championship. Now put Rossi on a Suzuki or Kawasaki and win one would be really impressive if you want to go about saying he can win on inferior machinery. But to say he has won on inferior machinery on either e
i think biaggi would argue with you on that, the yam mabe pretty good now thanks to rossi burgess and engineers but is wasnt that way when rossi switched.if nakano can put the 990 kwak in a consistant 6th that rossi could win on it no doubt.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 16 2007, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think biaggi would argue with you on that, the yam mabe pretty good now thanks to rossi burgess and engineers but is wasnt that way when rossi switched.if nakano can put the 990 kwak in a consistant 6th that rossi could win on it no doubt.

Thats a pretty tough call. I think the yamaha was better than it was being ridden before rossi came along, but i dont think kawasakis go much faster than that. Plus, the extra little something to get from 6th to first is very hard. Plus, i wouldn't be convinced kawasaki had the resources or the capability to develop that bike as JB and rossi needed. I would love rossi to prove me wrong on that one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't mean to add more fuel to the fire...nah I do.

But I just noticed this post (which by the way was before the other one), Tom said Casey would "outride" Capirossi! Are their no Loris fans on this site?!? Judging from all the "well intentioned" and "fair and balanced" fans out there that jumped on Tom for saying Casey "out rode" Rossi; surely this "bias" and uncalled for statement would be addressed.

Most of the above was tongue and cheek, but it makes a very interesting point. Namely, that Tom saying Casey "out rode" Rossi was fairly benign and certainly didn't warrant all the hoopla by those that came out to chastise the comment.

Sorry if people have a problem with the idea of a rider "out riding" another, thats just my way of saying they beat them, or got the better of them, out foxed them. That kinda thing. It should not be taken as a dig at the rider being "out ridden"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 16 2007, 01:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry if people have a problem with the idea of a rider "out riding" another, thats just my way of saying they beat them, or got the better of them, out foxed them. That kinda thing. It should not be taken as a dig at the rider being "out ridden"
Ah man, quit apologizing, just call it like it is--people coming out and making something out of nothing because God forbid it was about "their" boy.

We call it "making a mountain out of a mole hill" have you heard that saying? Not sure if they use it in the UK.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah man, quit apologizing
ya know tom jumkies got a point.... u do seem to apologize an awful lot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Mar 16 2007, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> ya know tom jumkies got a point.... u do seem to apologize an aful lot.

I don't like to cause trouble

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We call it "making a mountain out of a mole hill" have you heard that saying? Not sure if they use it in the UK.

Yeah, we got that but if i supply a molehill that someone turns into a mountain i feel slightly responsible.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 16 2007, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't like to cause trouble
Really? Hahah, that's a bit funny. The visual I got is: you smoking a cigarette then some "well intentioned" person tells you smoking is bad and proceeds to “help” you snuff it out with jet fuel.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really? Hahah, that's a bit funny. The visual I got is: you smoking a cigarette then some "well intentioned" person tells you smoking is bad and proceeds to “help” you snuff it out with jet fuel.

I dont get it

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 16 2007, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont get it
Damn Tom, you really are an innocent soul. Frankly I don't want to corrupt you so I'll let somebody else explain it.


Ah what the Hell. I'm responding to you saying “you don’t like to cause trouble”. I'm agreeing with you by saying you were minding your own business smoking a cigarette until somebody decided to get involved and put out a tiny little cinder with something as flammable and volatile as jet fuel. Then they go around wondering why a firestorm was started. Get it?

Yeah, welcome to my sinister world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Damn Tom, you really are an innocent sole. Frankly I don't want to corrupt you so I'll let somebody else explain it.
Ah what the Hell. I'm responding to you saying “you don’t like to cause trouble”. I'm agreeing with you by saying you were minding your own business smoking a cigarette until somebody decided to get involved and put out a tiny little cinder with something as flammable and volatile as jet fuel. Then they go around wondering why a firestorm was started. Get it?

Yeah, welcome to my sinister world.

i don't smoke........................................sorry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 16 2007, 07:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't smoke........................................sorry
Yeah, but you got burned just the same

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 16 2007, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, but you got burned just the same

Instead of quoting Jumkie and try to answere him point for point (and have started on that monumental task a couple of times but given up)
I'll end this issue on my part with this post.

Jumkie has a couple of valid quotes, where I may have offend some of you and for that I'm sorry. It was not my intention but in the heat of the moment and on a topic where I disagree to a degree that I still are really confused over why we have this out-ridden discussion at all, I used words uncalled for.
I still think that that race looked more like a test race between SBK champion Bayliss and SS champion Charpentier rather than a race with two bikes under the same regulations. The difference were huge.
The seamingly denial of this difference frustrated me as well as my so called "not-so-subtle explanations (exuses) for Rossi not winning" where never anything like that. No "not-so-subtle" excuses for Rossi not winning, and no words between the lines. Simply trying to express my meaning about putting credit where it's due and when someone says Rossi where out-ridden that objective where IMO not fullfilled. I just think that Rossi deserves credit for that race. Maybe I put a differnt meaning into out-ridden, I don't know, but I want to leave it there and I think it's better to agree to disagree on that matter.
When I try to describe this as truthfully and objective as I'm able to, even then concious about my Rossi bias and trying to avoid any of that in my evaluation, and then never being believed, is quite frustrating, so again, tom, burky and others, sorry for those harsh words.

Jumkie, I wish I had your energy and browse through this topic and quite a few others from the later days and quote you as you did with me, but I don't so I guess you "win" this discusion as well.
I do hope we can continue to discuss our passion and don't worry there will be quite a few not-so-subtle kicks in Haydens and your directions, but you will not be in doubt of where the kicks are directed and call me a mindless cheerleader but I don't mind if you point directly to me instead of the general Rossi worshipers. We are plentyfull and not everyone are interested in actuall discussions and those are the ones I don't want to be asosiated with.

As a final note, take my word for it, when I reapeat my standpoint like here I'm not hiding my real opinion behind constructed "explanations".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 16 2007, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Jumkie has a couple of valid quotes

2. When I try to describe this as truthfully and objective as I'm able to, even then concious about my Rossi bias and trying to avoid any of that in my evaluation, and then never being believed, is quite frustrating, so again, tom, burky and others, sorry for those harsh words.
1. Thanks. You had valid points yourself.
2. I'll assume I'm the "others".

Hey man, its all good. I see we have some common ground. I was thinking about this after my 10k word essay and figured you are as passionate about MotoGP and the guy you root for as much as me. You are right about your fan base grossly out numbering mine, so imagine, when you feel a bit under the gun, I feel I’m under the cannon (understand my meaning?). So please give us Hayden fans a bit more credit, your guy has been setting the world on fire for many years, and my guy took 1 (so far) and got all crapped on for it and continues to be (just look at the “intensions” of a few of the past/recent threads). I do the same to retaliate, which sucks me into the game. So when “some” of us see an “explanation” (as you call it), it sometimes smack as “excuses” (sour grapes), but I see it may not always be the case, and I am guilty of jumping on it when I perceive it to be a bias rationalization. I guess I’ve become cynical/skeptical and a bit resentful for the un-appreciation of the fantastic feat that Hayden accomplished in 06 when, and you must admit, most of the “heap of ....” has come from the Rossi base. I’ve said it before, I admire Rossi. I’m a “fan” of Hayden.

I was wondering if you would reply. Thanks for doing so. I hope we can debate both at the highest levels of analytical and evaluative opinion and assessment, and gutter/sewer banter for the hell of it.

2006 Hayden

2007 _______(Who knows, maybe your guy, maybe mine, maybe neither; but whoever, props to him.)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 17 2007, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Thanks. You had valid points yourself.
2. I'll assume I'm the "others".
<snip wise words>

I liked that post Jumkie. As for #2 above, i think your quotes were mostly from the part of the tread where you weren’t involved yet and they were aimed at those in the tread at that time. On the other hand there were other posts with clear adress to you so, if you felt offended by any of them, my apologies.

Isn't it touching the Rossi hater and hayden Hater are friends

Can't have any of that, can we.
What about that farmboy, is he going to reach the finish line before the other raceres and all the spectators have left the track in next race?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 16 2007, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What about that farmboy, is he going to reach the finish line before the other raceres and all the spectators have left the track in next race?
Well somebodys got to wait untill the cows come home, it might as well be the guy with some farming experience, eh?

Insert crickets and night time sounds….
1394:attachment]
He loves them cows.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Mar 17 2007, 08:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. I'll assume I'm the "others".