<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Mar 15 2007, 11:12 AM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would like to reply to that with the words that spring to mind. But I refuse to let you
sink me to your level.
Not to
heap .... on people whose opinions are different from my own. Grow up.
Looks like you sunk.
Well it seems here is my response to the feelings of Bikergirl and Babel feeling upset.
I hope this clears some things up. And after all, I hope we can still discuss this passionate thing we love called MotoGP.
I have a little extra time, and I haven’t written a essay in a while so here is one for you.
However, here are a few of your quotes I thought were interesting on this thread:
Babel:
“I just saying that the Ducati is the big winner in this race then Casey.”
Bikergirl:
"one win and suddenly Rossi is crapped all over again. Out-ridden. Out classed. Hello?"
Bikergirl:
"I think that before this all turns into another Rossi/Hayden-like debate we really ought to see what's going to happen next."
Its comments like this that actual give rise to “this is why it’s a Rossi/Hayden debate.”
Bikergirl:
“Hence Rossi's first comment that he's going to take his M1 down to Misano to hot it up. The <u>machinery was very unequal</u>.”
Because people, including you, attribute the non-win by Rossi to <u>
“unequal” machinery</u>. So how many times has he been on <u>superior machinery when winning</u>? Do we also say, well Rossi won because he was on a better bike? Certainly he won on a Honda a few times, and certainly the Yamaha was the "better" machine a few times.
Where are those Rossi fans that would admit he won because he was on a better machine to his competitors that day? As I remember,
Hayden was not given credit for taking a poor performing bike to many podiums, so people saw/see him as second rate champion, yet he did the very same thing Rossi did this weekend according to you. But little credit was given to Hayden, was it not? Not even the few wins that Hayden managed were appreciated by those now claiming that poor old Rossi’s
<u>lack of machinery</u> was the problem this weekend. As if, this how you put it
“the machinery was ‘very’ unequal” was the basis for him (Rossi) not winning it. You may not come out and say this <u>explicitly</u>, but its “obvious” this is what you are suggesting, and this is not far fetched.)
Your quote about Rossi going to the shop to get more power, imagine if we read a post race interview by Hayden saying he is going to Honda to see about getting more power as an explanation of the poor showing this weekend? (And no, not all Hondas are created equal, otherwise I think Edwards would have shown better IMO). I haven’t called Rossi a whiner for asking for more power, but you could sure as bet they would be calling Hayden much worse if he asked for more power regarding his 8th place. What do you think?
I see clearly how these not-so-subtle explanations are done, because its repeated theme so often as I read the threads, it a praise for Casey,
but then its an apology for Rossi veiled in “it was the difference in power”. My perspective is:
“Some” Rossi fans not coming to grips that he got beat. So a little praise with a big
"but..."
You quoted Tom when he said he got “out ridden” then you <u>injected</u> alittle <u>more</u> just to be incendiary and said
“out classed” which by the way Tom did <u>not</u> add!
My perspective is you did this to fuel the debate that you claim you detest. Why else (from my perspective) would such an<u> “educated”</u> person as you inject something surely to be
incendiary like claiming somebody suggested he got <u>“out classed”</u> (which suggests he lacked refinement, style, flair, and elegance—that’s what
“class” means). Of course people are going to be upset about their boy being called all this, but the fact is, that’s
‘not’ what was said. So you made it up (my perspective) or maybe you didn’t realize it (giving you the benefit of the doubt). And by the way, much of the debate before I even entered the thread encircled around this idea of Rossi being “out ridden” where the rebuttal was no it was just “less power”. Which ‘you’ added to your post. (Again, way
before <u>I</u> joined this very fun thread)!
Here are a few other quotes:
Babel:
“What are you guys riding, wheelchairs? I must admit that I get really annoyed…”
Babel:
“The Casey/Ducati package blew Rossi/Yamaha away but to even suggest that Casey was out-riding Rossi is nothing but hilarious.”
Babel, What is “hilarious” was when you were suggesting that Hayden’s championship run was anything less than “outstanding” despite his poor performing “package” last year; but here you give it all the weight to suggest this is why Casey
“blew” Rossi “away”. But were unwilling to give credence to machinery/package problems experienced by Hayden 06, as many others. Now that is…”hilarious” but I would add “hypocritical”.
Babel:
“Get a grip guys, get some real world experience before you continue talking about something you obviously doesn't have a clue about.”
So bikergirl, you are upset about people insulting you and people suggesting you don’t know what you are talking about, right? The above quote is an example of somebody doing it, but in this case in support of who? Yup you guess it, Rossi. (But I suspect this didn’t annoy you, I’m sure when I suggest this, it does.) But then again, if it did, then I stand corrected.
Babel:
“Stopp behaving silly.”
I remember once getting all crapped on for saying a thread started by another member was “lousy” similar to “silly”.
It’s interesting though I must admit, that once people started to take to task (challenge) the explanations (excuses) about why Rossi didn’t win
only then I began to notice some concession by people; but it took such comments taken to task (that means challenged) that people started to conceed. But in frustration, the concessions turned to saying, oh we are “Rossi fan bashing”. No, its not Rossi fan bashing when you take the events that happened and give them an objective take, which so happens not to agree with you.
Oh but wait there is more. Here is the <u>reward</u> for those that stayed on this post: Bikergirl, you say you are upset about people calling you a “mindless cheerleader” but here on on this quote below, you do some calling of it yourself. Uhm, can we say “double standard”? Lets go to the quote:
Bikergirl:
“Tom...you turned this thread into this sorry mess. Check out what you yourself said. Burky started the threat to discuss Casey...and you put Vale being 'outridden' into all of it. Until you did that, all of Vale's mindless cheerleading gang fans were happily in agreement…”
Its kinda like telling your kid, don’t smoke in-between you taking a drag of your cigarette, don’t you think?
You go on to say you are tired of being called
“stupid”, but here below you did it yourself:
Bikergirl:
“Now I am truly offended. You could have said SOME fans. ALL fans? Now that's truly ‘<u>stupid</u>’…”
There is a saying I know in Spanish that translated goes like this: “The truth doesn’t sin it just makes you uncomfortable.”
Yeah, you aren't the only one that speak multiple languages, moving on: people being hurt by insults…
Here is Babel <u>about insults</u>:
“Lot's of people here love to pretend not insulting you by putting the insult into a slightly different package like in this case…”
Now here is Babel<u> insulting</u>:
“So on both accounts your "transfer of logic" fails. You can do better than that.”
The above quote is condescending, which is a form of
insult. Amazing!
Now keep in mind all this happened
‘before’ I ever entered this thread, which I did on post number 136! (Believe it or not). In other words, you squabbled all by yourselves. Yet somehow I become the aims of your frustration?
Much later on the thread, Babel took issue with my opinion, and condescendingly calls me out with this:
“What rossifumi forum do you pick up all this "inspiration" from?”
So naturally I responded to Babel.
Bikergirl, you said:
“I'm sick of being called <u>‘stupid’</u>, mindless and other such lovely things by some people on here. I have never insulted anybody. Neither rider nor fellow forum user. Feel free to check every single thing I have ever posted.”
Well I did check, and found you did
exactly what you’re claiming you did
not, on this very thread no less. Just like Babel too.
Ooops.
Final notes:
Here is what you said, Bikergirl:
"Take responsability. People will answer back when provoked."
I felt provoked, so I responded.
For the record, Bikergirl and Babelfish, based on some of both of your posts, both of you seem like people I might like to sit down and talk racing with in person. I’m sure we would not have any heated arguments like it seems it happens here on a forum. But I must say, the “mindless cheerleader” term came from me while bantering between a few choice “buddies” (they know who they are) here on the forum a long time ago. Somehow both of you have taken it to heart. Perhaps its guilt coming from where your inclinations lie on the issues, perhaps its not, but certainly whatever it is, it does required a bit of skin thickness. This is why I only ‘directly’ use it with those particular members when I remember. If you count yourself as one of “mindless cheerleaders” because I take your comments to task, that’s on you. Its like getting all bent out of shape over the number of times Rossi hasn’t won 5 or 6, that for a moment Bikergirl, you got stuck on because they were talking about your boy. Let it go, it’s not that big of a deal. (I know it’s easier said than done, I’ve got stuck myself). Here is some practical advise, there is another guy here that seems to have a very thin skin, like a little kid, I do my best at trying not to respond to him. Maybe us three can do the same. <u>My final peace offering is</u>: I hope not, since believe it or not, you both do make some very interesting points. It’s just a forum guys, it not like the real important issues in our lives. So go on rooting for your guy, I will go on rooting for mine.
Now getting back on subject, I found the following post to be spot on:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Mar 12 2007, 03:32 AM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm glad somebody was watching the same race as me!
Remind me, who won?
In fact, whilst all you Rossi fanatics out there were waiting for the last 2 or 3 laps banzai, what actually happened was that Rossi got.......dare I say it,.......'outRossi'd!' Simple, and fantastic to watch.
Now the aftermath causes the Rossi fanatics to put an edge on it, or find an excuse. If tyres or engine are significantly to blame , then that must be down to poor preparation. But throughout testing, Team Yamaha commented on their improvements to the point of saying the bike was eventually superb, and ready for the forthcoming season. If Valentino was the best rider, he would have won. But after both set a remarkable pace, Casey showed,...nay proved,....he had something in reserve.
Please Rossi fans, enough trying to belittle others achievements. Not one of your posts contains a simple word of congratulations to Casey, without throwing in a 'but!'
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 15 2007, 12:48 AM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You have so far as I have seen donne little but patting others shoulders for what they've written
Babel since you don’t like it and you are taking issue with me “patting” other people’s comments and agreeing with what they say, here is one:
^^well said bikergirl.
Guess who said this…..? Sure looks like they are doing what you don’t like, eh?
Here is an explanation why I do this, because when I say it people like you discount it immediately as being “bias” but when somebody else says it, my hope is you will see it for the content. (Though I would have said the same thing, it’s the messenger that seems people judge rather than the message).
