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BRNO Czech Rep GP 2012: RACE

Mr Squiggle said:
Not so sure about that Kesh....Stoner has been pretty one dimensional throughout his career....ie go REALLY fast and try to win every race, which is why I love watching him as he is a racer in the purest sense - but it is also this philosophy that has cost him dearly when it comes to championships....this year being a prime example and Sachsenring was a very costly mistake that in hindsight he should probably not have made.



Stoner in the past two seasons also had the luxury of riding a far more predictable handling bike and that has allowed him options that weren't previously available while riding the Ducati - it has been this more than anything that has allowed him to better plan his attacks and give him some options re: race stategy....as opposed to getting to the front and pushing at 100% to stay there.



I also think Pedro has had misfortune at the wrong time every year he has competed in the Premiere class...if the luck had have gone his way on a few occasions he could very well have a title by now....even last year he could have walked away with the championship but the luck went Casey's way (Stoner was lucky to get away with a few highsides that could have had serious repercussions for his title chase - this year that run of luck ended).



At the end of the day I just reckon Pedro knew he had better drive up the hill and exploited that advantage to get past Jorge when it mattered...a good race strategy and it all worked out for him. If Dani can pile the pressure back on Jorge he may make a mistake himself (rare these days) and open up a window of opportunity that Pedro can then exploit.



Dani has definitely shown that he wont go down without a fight (moreso this year than before perhaps) and I for one hope he can do it. The three Aliens are all very worthy of a world title...but It is not always decided by skill alone.
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I don't mind whether dani or jorge wins the title, both would be well deserved champions.



Stoner had some luck with crashes and injuries/health in 2007 and 2011, not so much in other years. Whatever he might think himself I don't think he had the same focus this year perhaps from the start, certainly once he decided to retire, as he did in his championship years. Perhaps part of his problem is that his riding style requires close to inhuman focus.
 
MigsAngel said:
Spies made the error at start, and it cost him...then HE made a small mistake and dropped it.....
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Spies never admitted to the error at the start. He said they checked data and he stated he did nothing different from his practice starts. If he did nothing different then WTF happened? How is he to blame? The start is controlled by electronics, launch control, and anti wheely electronics. Some dude with a laptop ....... his .... up.



Anyway he did say that the crash was his fault, it must have been a good day for you Migs.
 
Jumkie said:
Finally, a post I can agree with in its entirety. Btw, if he doen't accomplish his goal in the first corner, you can bet he will continue to attempt it the rest of the race. He will not be denied his destiny to murder another rider.
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Sickening statement.....
 
SackWack said:
Anyway he did say that the crash was his fault, it must have been a good day for you Migs.
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It was not a good nor a bad day for me based on Spies dropping it.



I just think that GPs are beyond Spies abilities, and this race just goes to show it again. I especially think that since lots of you kept saying he is the 4th alien, and that he would beat them all when he first arrived in MotoGP....but like many many SBK riders GP success and is beyond them....



So if some of you had not talk him up so much I would not be so critical of him and his supposed abilities.



The point is that being great at AMA or WSBK is meaningless in GPs.....
 
MigsAngel said:
The point is that being great at AMA or WSBK is meaningless in GPs.....
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Tell that to the 2006 Moto GP World Champion
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Up until 2001 I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you. While I still believe that those with a thoroughbred prototype pedigree are a cut above and tend to understand more about development and set up following the switch to four stroke and recently the intended shift towards the CRT model Superbike has and will increase it's relevance - particularly in the cross over between Supersport and Moto 2.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
Tell that to the 2006 Moto GP World Champion
<




Up until 2001 I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you. While I still believe that those with a thoroughbred prototype pedigree are a cut above and tend to understand more about development and set up following the switch to four stroke and recently the intended shift towards the CRT model Superbike has and will increase it's relevance - particularly in the cross over between Supersport and Moto 2.
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You are right about 2006 (mostly
<
)....we will have to see about CRTs in future....



I am sure about the Supersport and Moto2 though...SOFUOGLU wasn't able to make the Moto2 work, but he is brilliant in Supersport....



We shall have to wait and see about the CRTs
 
SackWack said:
Spies never admitted to the error at the start. He said they checked data and he stated he did nothing different from his practice starts. If he did nothing different then WTF happened? How is he to blame? The start is controlled by electronics, launch control, and anti wheely electronics. Some dude with a laptop ....... his .... up.



Anyway he did say that the crash was his fault, it must have been a good day for you Migs.
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Agree. Btw, everyday is a good day for Migs. After all, ignorance is bliss.
 
MigsAngel said:
It was not a good nor a bad day for me based on Spies dropping it.



I just think that GPs are beyond Spies abilities, and this race just goes to show it again. I especially think that since lots of you kept saying he is the 4th alien, and that he would beat them all when he first arrived in MotoGP....but like many many SBK riders GP success and is beyond them....



So if some of you had not talk him up so much I would not be so critical of him and his supposed abilities.



The point is that being great at AMA or WSBK is meaningless in GPs.....
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Not too many ex wsb or ama riders going to mptogp have had competitive rides. Nicky did in 06 and won the wc and spies has with the factory yam which has not been without its issues. Spies is better than he is looking at the moment because of one thing or another but i never believed he would set the world on fire.
 
chopperman said:
Not too many ex wsb or ama riders going to mptogp have had competitive rides. Nicky did in 06 and won the wc and spies has with the factory yam which has not been without its issues. Spies is better than he is looking at the moment because of one thing or another but i never believed he would set the world on fire.
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Same here. Thought Spies would be a regular top 4 or 5 guy on good equipment. I take no notice of all the speculation regarding Ben and would like to see him stay in MotoGP. But, if staying in GP was your plan, why jump ship from a manufacturer whose other factory rider is doing ok and whose satellite team ain't doing bad either to go to Gresini or Pramac ( if these rumours have any truth ). I know he has had far more than his fair share of problems with the Yamaha, but unless he has no interest in competing for a world title, a suppose a leased Pramac Ducati or Gresini Honda ( if they do run one in 2013 ) is they way to go.

Dovi and Cal were fighting to get off the satellite Yamaha which he has them running up the Sharp end and onto the factory Ducati because they think the only hope of a title is on a factory bike. Ben appears to be going in the other direction.

The other factor is the yamaha team themselves. Perhaps they just aren't a good fit with Ben.



Be good to see him in BSB otherwise
 
actually ben imo can do more than just regular top 4-5.

the guy beat dovi first time out on the yamaha in valencia

his season is ...... and cant perform, he needs to forget it and find confidence again

its a shame but its normal when you dont deliver the results for whatever reason, to lose a ride everyone wants

when in his 100% i think ben can fight for the podium at least

he's after all the only one apart from the known 4 to have beaten stoner (almost twice)

if he goes to honda, there is no future for a factory ride. dani and marquez will not go away i guess

but on a satellite duc he can easily jump on the factory bike

and i think for some reason ben could be faster on the ducati than both rossi or dovi or nicky

we havent seen dovi yet but i expect 4th place finishes maybe, not much more
 
bill88 said:
actually ben imo can do more than just regular top 4-5.

the guy beat dovi first time out on the yamaha in valencia

his season is ...... and cant perform, he needs to forget it and find confidence again

its a shame but its normal when you dont deliver the results for whatever reason, to lose a ride everyone wants

when in his 100% i think ben can fight for the podium at least

he's after all the only one apart from the known 4 to have beaten stoner (almost twice)

if he goes to honda, there is no future for a factory ride. dani and marquez will not go away i guess

but on a satellite duc he can easily jump on the factory bike

and i think for some reason ben could be faster on the ducati than both rossi or dovi or nicky

we havent seen dovi yet but i expect 4th place finishes maybe, not much more
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Wow that is some statement. What make you think that ?
 
I think we are all in agreement that Ben belongs in GP. Not everyone is going to win a championship. Currently there are 3 people in GP that can win a championship. If we follow Migs logic everyone else should be out of GP. Do I have that summed up pretty good MIgs? Oh wait, you seem to zero in on the US riders...hmmm.
 
chopperman said:
A lot of fair criticism too !
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I reckon a lot of that criticism is guilt by association.....Darth Puig as overlord = Pedrosa is a prick. Which to me seems quite unfair. His on track riding is exemplary barring Losail 2006....which was a major brain fart, but surely people can forgive this one major indiscretion after so many years - especially seeing how it didnt lose Hayden the championship.



He doesnt make a habit of bagging his competitors and usually gives credit when its due to riders who beat him and he is also very courageous and has demonstrated that many times. Personally I think he is in general a pretty good guy, but being introverted he comes in for a lot of flak by some sections of the fan base who deem this to be a weakness.



Those that say he has not performed in the last 7 years are being hyper critical......with around 60 odd podiums in the top class he is definitely top tier and thoroughly deserves his factory ride. You cant blame him for a lack of competitive rides in MGP.
 
Keshav said:
I think you're talking about the old Stoner. I'm recalling Laguna Seca 2011 where he toyed with Lorenzo till the end of the lap and then breezed off at will.

He did that again recently to save the softer tire that he wasn't happy with and at the end effortlessly pulled away from Lorenzo in the closing lap. I think

Dani is learning he can save his tires for the end of the race instead of taking off and disappearing like he used to do. Much more strategic.
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I totally agree that in those races he definitely used some smart race management to get the wins....but I would never call Casey a tactical genius.



Having said that I definitely believe he was limited in what he could do to win races on the Ducati ie Win it or bin it.....but the big H does allow him to exploit other alternatives so I reckon we both have some valid points. If his entire career was on the factory RCV it would be easier to make a definitive call re: his race smarts.



Sacshenring 2012 was costly - it also showed he can still fall back on those habits he derived from riding the Duke. Easy for me to say this now though with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight
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However I would much prefer to see a racer with this sort of attitude to one who wont push because he is not comfortable with the bike....especially when they earn megabucks to do so.
 
michaelm said:
I don't mind whether dani or jorge wins the title, both would be well deserved champions.



Stoner had some luck with crashes and injuries/health in 2007 and 2011, not so much in other years. Whatever he might think himself I don't think he had the same focus this year perhaps from the start, certainly once he decided to retire, as he did in his championship years. Perhaps part of his problem is that his riding style requires close to inhuman focus.
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+1



Good to see you posting again.....
 

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