Bautista to Gresini????

While my esteemed colleague from The City Of The Angels may contradict me - I think he's earned a shot at this seat.

I for one am happy to see him get a chance to show what he's made of; something more substantial than Ayoama

for whom I had high expectations. Bautista has shown grit and talent on the 800s so - no reason to think he won't

show well on a 1000.

Keshav said:

While my esteemed colleague from The City Of The Angels may contradict me - I think he's earned a shot at this seat.

I for one am happy to see him get a chance to show what he's made of; something more substantial than Ayoama

for whom I had high expectations. Bautista has shown grit and talent on the 800s so - no reason to think he won't

show well on a 1000.

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Well, I think Randy DePuniet's performance on one day of Suzuki went a long way to dispel the this idea that Alvaro is as talented as you propose, for the record, I think he is good, but about lower average in the field. I think he was overrated for sure, and so far everything in this year's record adds weight to my assessment and away from yours, my esteemed colleague for NYC. Now if he goest to a Honda spec bike, many will continue to believe the ......... It seems 2011 has taught us many lesson, though some of us will still not learn them. We erroneously compare Aoyama's performance to the other factory spec bikes. The two only bikes that were not spec Hondas were Aoyama & Elias. What does that tell you? I'm not sure where you get this "grit and talent" from. Grit? All the riders have comeback from series injury, would you like a list? Talent? The first six GP's he was 12/13th finishing order (with one exception). He then had 5 DNFs. He had DNSs in the first two GP because he crashed injuring himself. That is 10 races out of the season where he either was close to last or crashed out, and add the two DNS, that is 12 GPs out of the 18. That my friend is a ...... ....... season. So the guy is rewarded by getting a top Honda seat? The thing Alvaro has going for him is his passport.



Not to mention he ...... three Ducati riders of the season finale, one of which he ...... out of crucial testing time. But such is the way of GP. .... up enough, be Italian or Spanish, and you will get rewarded.



Edited

and he' s a great down to earth guy that is good with sponsors. Bringing money to the team is also a +, and he brings it in from Spain. I hope he does well. His start to moto Gp wasn't the best being on a Suzuki with a drunk teammate as a role model. New team, new bike, new start. Hope it's good.

Jumkie said:

Well, I think Randy DePuniet's performance on one day of Suzuki went a long way to dispel the this idea that Alvaro is the talented rider you propose. I think he was overrated, and so far everything in this year's record adds weight to my assessment and away from yours, my esteemed colleague for NYC. Now if he goest to a Honda spec bike, many will continue to believe the ......... It seems 2011 has taught us many lesson, though some of us will still not learn them. We erroneously compare Aoyama's performance to the other factory spec bikes. The two only bikes that were not spec Hondas were Aoyama & Elias. What does that tell you? I'm not sure where you get this "grit and talent" from. Grit? All the riders have comeback from series injury, would you like a list? Talent? The first six GP's he was 12/13th finishing order (with one exception). He then had 5 DNFs. He had DNSs in the first two GP because he crashed injuring himself. That is 10 races out of the season where he either was close to last or crashed out, and add the two DNS, that is 12 GPs out of the 18. That my friend is a ...... ....... season. So the guy is rewarded by getting a top Honda seat? The thing Alvaro has going for him is his passport.



Not to mention he ...... three Ducati riders of the season finale, one of which he ...... out of crucial testing time. But such is the way of GP. .... up enough, be Italian or Spanish, and you will get rewarded.

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Having read your post I can see where you are coming from on this topic Jumkie. Alvaro has indeed had a bad season by all means, but it's the potential on the track that he showed that caught the eye of many people, and obviously now Gresini Honda. I'm going to refer back to Marco Simoncelli in that he too barely finished the races where he could have done if he had not crashed or what not, but what a lot of people saw in him too was potential. Alvaro is not as good as Marco was, for sure, but in my eyes he still has potential. Casey Stoner in 2006 crashed virtually every race...look where he is now. Who is to say that Alvaro cannot turn things around and learn to stay on the bike, much like what Casey has managed to do and fair play to him.



Everyone is different and therefore everyone has varying opinions, which makes this forum good and worthwhile. I respect your view even though I have a completely different view to this.



Personally I would love to see what Alvaro can do on a factory 1000cc Honda machine. He has shown great signs of potential this year on the Suzuki, even if all we have to look back on now is a poor report card from the 2011 season. It's not always what's on paper though.

Edwards, fair enough. I still think he's overrated. If you put anyone of the GP riders, 1-17 on a factory spec Honda, they will look pretty good.

baturro said:

and he' s a great down to earth guy that is good with sponsors. Bringing money to the team is also a +, and he brings it in from Spain. I hope he does well. His start to moto Gp wasn't the best being on a Suzuki with a drunk teammate as a role model. New team, new bike, new start. Hope it's good.

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didnt know capirex was a boozer

Jumkie said:

Edwards, fair enough. I still think he's overrated. If you put anyone of the GP riders, 1-17 on a factory spec Honda, they will look pretty good.

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Like Hayden?

Would have preferred crazy Joe. Gutted

heyhuub said:

Like Hayden?

Click to expand...

Yes, and Rossi, and etc...

Jumkie said:

Yes, and Rossi, and etc...

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Uhuh. How many DNF's did Hayden have in his second season?

Jumkie is just mad because Hayden got hurt and he likes to have digs at Spanish and Italian riders. As it happens his passport was working against him with his new ride, it was HRC who wanted him. Also he wont be gifted the best kit, apparently the level of support he'll get will be determined by his (and the other Honda riders) results as the season goes on.

Jumkie said:

Well, I think Randy DePuniet's performance on one day of Suzuki went a long way to dispel the this idea that Alvaro is as talented as you propose, for the record, I think he is good, but about lower average in the field. I think he was overrated for sure, and so far everything in this year's record adds weight to my assessment and away from yours, my esteemed colleague for NYC. Now if he goest to a Honda spec bike, many will continue to believe the ......... It seems 2011 has taught us many lesson, though some of us will still not learn them. We erroneously compare Aoyama's performance to the other factory spec bikes. The two only bikes that were not spec Hondas were Aoyama & Elias. What does that tell you? I'm not sure where you get this "grit and talent" from. Grit? All the riders have comeback from series injury, would you like a list? Talent? The first six GP's he was 12/13th finishing order (with one exception). He then had 5 DNFs. He had DNSs in the first two GP because he crashed injuring himself. That is 10 races out of the season where he either was close to last or crashed out, and add the two DNS, that is 12 GPs out of the 18. That my friend is a ...... ....... season. So the guy is rewarded by getting a top Honda seat? The thing Alvaro has going for him is his passport.



Not to mention he ...... three Ducati riders of the season finale, one of which he ...... out of crucial testing time. But such is the way of GP. .... up enough, be Italian or Spanish, and you will get rewarded.



Edited

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Hmmmm..... I will iterate again that I believe he did well over the last two season given the equipment and level of support. Many people spoke harshly of Stoner in 2006 saying he didn't deserve anything more that satellite status. People didn't see his potential. I may be proven wrong - but that will take some time. DePuniet did a few quick laps which hardly overshadow Bautista's efforts, and mind you, he did so on a bike "developed" (I love that word.) by Bautista.



For the record - I felt that Honda was stupid not to snap up DePuniet given how much promise he showed before being stuck on the Duc - and wonder if they were cutting of their collective noses to save their face - by not admitting wrongdoing when the unceremoniusly dumping him. Perhaps they just didn't have the grace to admit their error and this prevented them from re-hiring him.

Interesting to see Randy de Puniet going faster on the zookie 800 than Bautista on the 800 Honda. I can see why people think Alvaro is overrated but don't really get the hate for either him or the team. The decisions of the upper management are almost always going to be in contention with the needs of the team at the race track, so to me it seems that those teams should be judged by how they react and get around this contention. In that respect I have a lot of time for the Suzuki guys - even when they aren't doing too well they attract loads of attention, the bike looks great and even though it's perhaps a bit naive the 'some Suzuki is better than no Suzuki' argument does at least carry some merit.



At present these are both upper midfield riders in midfield teams, so regardless of who hates who for whatever reason I reckon we'll get some good racing out of them next year.

Tom said:

Jumkie is just mad because Hayden got hurt and he likes to have digs at Spanish and Italian riders. As it happens his passport was working against him with his new ride, it was HRC who wanted him. Also he wont be gifted the best kit, apparently the level of support he'll get will be determined by his (and the other Honda riders) results as the season goes on.

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Dispute the numbers instead of fishing at reasons why I'm pointing out that Alvaro had a .... season capped off by an embarrassing test against his peers and one guy who had never been on a MotoGP bike.



Its interesting that your replying to this .... who is trying to make some ..... point with no traction.

Keshav said:

Hmmmm..... I will iterate again that I believe he did well over the last two season given the equipment and level of support. Many people spoke harshly of Stoner in 2006 saying he didn't deserve anything more that satellite status. People didn't see his potential. I may be proven wrong - but that will take some time. DePuniet did a few quick laps which hardly overshadow Bautista's efforts, and mind you, he did so on a bike "developed" (I love that word.) by Bautista.



For the record - I felt that Honda was stupid not to snap up DePuniet given how much promise he showed before being stuck on the Duc - and wonder if they were cutting of their collective noses to save their face - by not admitting wrongdoing when the unceremoniusly dumping him. Perhaps they just didn't have the grace to admit their error and this prevented them from re-hiring him.

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Well I suppose that I can make unsupported statements as well just on gut feeling, my esteemed colleague. But the record shows Alvaro crashed out of most of the season, and in the races he did finish he was well out of the top ten with little exception. Then another guy jumps on his bike and matches his time instantly, you can just imagine what he would do with more experience on the bike. Not to mention a Moto2 guy being within 0.3 of him on similar brand with the spec in Alvaro's favor.



I suppose I can say, hey, Karel is a better rider than Stoner too, and put nothing forward. About Stoner, I doubt this is a good analogy, as Stoner got a pole his first race in the class, and ran with the front runners at times, getting on the podium, etc. Remind me how many podiums and poles Alvaro has? None. Here is what I think, you have bought into this idea that Suzuki was the worst machine in the paddock and this way given Alvaro a pass.

Bubble

Keshav said:

Bubble

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In order to have a double, you need to have a single first. How the hell are you getting "doubles" in separate threads?....

Well i suppose you can call Loris a pretty .... and overrated rider to then? Considering he was pretty much outclassed by Alvaro?



Not saying i like the Spanish invasion in Motogp, but to dicredit Alvaro whos prolly' the nicest Spanish guy in the class just because he came close to precious Nicky is pretty .......

Keshav said:

For the record - I felt that Honda was stupid not to snap up DePuniet given how much promise he showed before being stuck on the Duc - and wonder if they were cutting of their collective noses to save their face - by not admitting wrongdoing when the unceremoniusly dumping him. Perhaps they just didn't have the grace to admit their error and this prevented them from re-hiring him.

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Assuming de Puniet and Bradl are equal, which is probably pretty fair considering Bradl is the reigning Moto2 World Champion and de Puniet just stepped off the worst bike on the grid, with a history of utterly destroying a riders' confidence for years to come (although my personal opinion is that de Puniet is the most underrated rider in MotoGP, and this is not the first time I've said this), it then falls to sponsorship. Considering de Puniet was linked to the ride for months, I have to believe that he had the backing for the ride. From what I've read today, it sounds like someone is backing Bradl to the same amount (whether that's personal sponsorship or Dorna, I don't know). I believe that the reason Bradl is looking like LCR's guy is that LCR don't want to work with de Puniet again. When that relationship ended a year ago, it sounded pretty ugly. I believe the only reason LCR were considering de Puniet was as an emergency in case they couldn't secure Dovizioso or Bautista or even Hopkins. I don't think they imagined Bradl would be able to stump up the money to join.



As far as Jum goes, I believe he may be on to something (and this is going to sound pretty familiar to some). The closest things we've had to direct comparisons to Bautista's results on the Suzuki have been Brno before Hopkins smashed his hand and de Puniet's ride on the Suzuki yesterday and today. Hopkins was quicker out of the box and lost out by less than a tenth in the second session, while de Puniet has done just about the same thing. Meanwhile, his first outing on the Honda was just three-tenths quicker than Bradl, who's never used carbon brakes before, nor has he ridden anything like a proper GP bike.



I've always been a big proponent of Bautista's, and he seems to be a pretty good guy, but performance-wise, we've never really seen him go out there and show up someone on the same machinery as him with the exception of Capirossi last season. Some would make the argument that Capirossi had lost all motivation to ride for Suzuki by about the midway point of last season. I don't mean to diminish Bautista's results in the premier class nor Capirossi's career, but is Capirossi really a good barometer of a competitive rider anymore? When was the last time he was?

heyhuub said:

Well i suppose you can call Loris a pretty .... and overrated rider to then? Considering he was pretty much outclassed by Alvaro? Not saying i like the Spanish invasion in Motogp, but to dicredit Alvaro whos prolly' the nicest Spanish guy in the class just because he came close to precious Nicky is pretty .......

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I'm saying Alvaro is overrated and giving you reasons why I'm saying this. I've said very little of his personal character, that's you reading into it. I said it was manly of him to apologize immediately, and commended him for it. Though it later came out that he blamed Dovi, which was completely incorrect.



I don't doubt he is a nice guy. That's been pretty much my impression of him.