Well for a start, if I were an "imbecile" as you put it ( which all my previous educational experiences would be in contrast to
), I strongly suggest that it would not be a very intelligent thing ( nor in any way decent ) to go calling me so.
. Are you the type to go up to an intellectually disabled person and do so!!?? I hope not. You are merely battling the dificulty with the concept at hand with such comments. Lash out at me all you like it means bugger all to me
Now back to the topic at hand ......... how do you explain the situation where the bike backs in without the use of any rear brake and/or downshift?
Now though I know you earlier said you "backed your R1 in", then denied you even had an R1
, I assume that in order to have such a "voice/opinion" on the matter you would never voice such an opinion merely from reading articles in the mag.s or watching videos. SO you must at least have experienced several differing situations of backing the bike in. Are you telling me you have never had a bike back in on you without the use of rear brake and/or downshift? I find that very dificult to believe especially from one who is on here telling me how it is, when it is a very known phenomena to me, and yet you insist I am an imbecile
And don't get me wrong I don't believe for one minute that none of your quoted riders know what I mean, or have never backed a bike in without rear brake or downshift.
So stop barking up the "ignoring me" tree, I'm not ignoring you I am attempting to show you that you are wrong
The really sad thing is that its seeming very likely that in the time you have been doing all this reading, pub bitching, and internet bitching at me, I have probably been out there in numerous situations and even inadvertently backed several bikes in. I know you seem to want the "printed world" to fill you with all your life experiences, however I would say this is a very strong example of why such "printed/video" experience does not enable you of skills.
SO .....
I'll try another tact ......... perhaps, since you love reading about it, rather than "the doing of it", I can create a recipe for you to try it.
What bike DO you actually have available?
Like I said, when it comes to riding a motorcycle, the only recipe you could create is a recipe for disaster.
As usual you have diverted from the issue. You yourself posted a link to an article on backing in which methodically describes the use of the downshift an even the back brake to stabilise it in the process. You keep ignoring this.
Let's go from the beginning shall we? You stated that you slide your bike with ease on the road WHEN SLOWING FOR CORNERS by body position and by simply shutting the throttle alone. I questioned this - because quite frankly it is absurd. I also said that most sliding by road riders - by which I meant at this stage of the debate, unprofessional amatuer riders - is done using the back brake. Let me state here and now, AGAIN, and try to understand this, that I am not prescribing this, it is an observation. This is key, because you do not seem to be able to comprehend this. You completely misunderstood my post and stared lampooning any use of the rear brake. When I pointed out that it is to some riders - giving examples- an integral part of backing a bike in, you again ridiculed the notion. I added that most sliding on the approach to corners is achieved by backing a bike in. To clarify, backing a bike in is breaking the rear loose on the approach to a corner through sliding the rear tyre during controlled or late braking and skilled feed of the clutch on the downshift. You have openly stated that you disagree with this, but foolishly posted a link to an article which gives a step by step guide to precisely the mechanisms that I am contending constitute 'backing in' . I have pointed this out possibly a dozen times and you keep ignoring the fact that your own article that YOU sourced, attributes backing in to the downshift - in direct contradiction to your argument. You then completely muddied the waters further by confusing backing in with powersliding and the application of the throttle - something altogether different to backing in. when I provided examples of riders utilising the techniques I have explained, I unleashed an onslaught of ........ from you as to how many slides you have routinely produce on the road as an afterthought during the course of a day - and that I should be out there doing it too.
Can I just point out that Otis suggested that you post some footage filmed by someone of you doing this, and ..........surprise - you can't. You claim to have taught riders for most of your life - I asked where - you refuse to say. You keep exhorting us to get out and back a bike in instead of talking about it, to get out there and produce hundreds of slides a day as you do instead of discussing a technique called backing it in. I don't claim to be able to routinely be able to back a bike in - you do. That's you Berry - not me, anomynously over an internet forum.
Again by way of analogy, I climb a little, both on an indoor wall and upon relatively unchallenging open faces, I'm not of a great standard. I greatly admire the exploits of Alain Robert free climbing some of the worlds tallest buildings. Although I practice, I read many many books in addition to watching other climbers in order to learn and observe and understand their individual technique. I have found that very valuable, but there are many instances whereby should I have tried to put it into practice myself, I'd probably end up dead, or at best severely injured. Should I go on a climbing forum then and rubbish guys who admire Alain Robert and learn about his technique through video footage and literature. Should I suggest that they get off their couch and scale the Petronas Towers as opposed to watching videos of him doing it and trying to understand his skill?
Ben Spies recently commented that he could see what Vale and Dani were doing, but he couldn't yet do it. He also opined that in the case of CS, although he could see what he was doing he was unable to
understand how he was doing it. Valentino has said many times how he used to gorge himself on videos of his favorite riders to feast on their style and
understand their technique execution and simply, learn and appreciate what they were doing. Any teacher will tell you that classroom time is intrinsic to practical instruction. The basis of The California Superbike School is
understanding our perceptions, inputs and our decisions. There is a reason why 'Twist of the Wrist' has been so successful Berry. The best climbers I know live on a diet of DVD's and climbing books when they are not climbing. Professional sportsmen practice and practice and hone their skills, but at the route of their success is
understanding aided and assisted through studying the greats.
Again, I do not claim to be able to routinely back in a motorcycle unlike you. There is no Instructor that I know that would advocate this on the road - yet you claim to be an instructor and you claim to be able to lock up the rear and slide your 749 with ease on the public highway. Very simply I am calling you out as a bullshitter.
In respect of my bike, last February after a multitude of posts ridiculing my assertions that baking in is achieved through the downshift and or the rear brake, and your endless ludicrous claims to be some kind of God on a bike I simply capitulated. I said words to the effect of 'Ok Berry you win, my R1 scares the crap out of me, I'm too scared to ride it far less slide it, in fact I lied I don't even own one motorcycle's frighten the life out of me'. I then feared this would be immediately lost on you and failing to appreciate the sarcasm given that you are utterly incapable of reading between the lines you'd leap on this like the ..... that you are and take it literally. Sigh - I was right. I own a '99 R1, which is very uncompromising which is why I like it. I have always loved in line fours, and regard the first R1 as the original definitive untamed version. It is very hard to master, and can be extremely tricky on a track day. But it is probably one of the most rewarding bikes that I have ever ridden. It does powerslide easily - usually unintentionally, and is virtually impossible to keep the front end on the deck. Because the power delivery low down is so brutal, I find that controlled wheelies and powerslides are actually more uncontrolled wheelies and powerslides. I have no steering damper, which is suicidal, and the bike is utterly raw and unforgiving. Though not completely stock, it is pretty much as God intended it. I have kept it because it is such a challenge to ride well. In eight years I am nowhere near mastering it, so it never fails to entertain me. As I said before on here, it can scare the crap out of you you every time you push it - I love the way it shakes its head on the throttle or the feel of it desperately searching for grip when pushed. When you park it up - you feel it then shakes it's head again and laughs at at your inability. It has the ability to scare everyone who rides it hard - and I love that. Of recent sportsbikes, IMO only the ZX10 C1H imparts the same untamed sense of savagery.
I digress...
I repeat from my last post, when the downshift or the rear brake are not used to slide a bike and sling the rear end out on the approach to the corner, in answer to your question, then the bike is not backing in - because plainly and simply that is what racers mean by the term backing in. You seem to struggle to understand this. That would be like me saying to you - why can't you explain those occasions when a bike powerslides without the use of the throttle!!??? Powersliding is by it's very nature spinning the tyre by the application of the throttle - it can't happen without, just as backing in a bike is impossible without the downshift and or the rear bake. That is what it is by definition. Not only are you unable to accept this, but you clearly state that both are not involved whatsoever in backing in a bike - which is a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire term and technique.
No Barry, in all honesty, I have not backed in a bike on the road without using the back brake or the downshift, but as I stated I don't claim to competently be able to do either. This is where you seem to be getting confused. I have contended throughout that backing in involves the downshift, the back brake a combination of both or in some cases use of either according to an individual racers preference. To clarify again, I am merely talking in the context of professional road racers -
which if I may remind you, you and I are not. The riders which I have mentioned are supremely talented and any attempt to make comparison to them within our own frame of reference as riders is utterly pointless. Berry, you cannot back in a bike like a professional Superbike acer or GP rider anymore than I can - so why do you keep returning to yourself? Just as you would be incapable of trailing the front brake at a 65 degree lean angle @140mph, you cannot come close to even comprehending the skills and finesse employed by the professional racer when backing in a racing motorcycle.
All we have ever heard from you is how clever you are, references to your elite level of education, your mastery of the motorcycle, of your lifetime instructional career, and it just goes on. When someone makes a point or an observation, you deride them by saying that they should be out there doing it like you - but you are unable to substantiate a word of your incessant bragging. I say again. I don't claim to be able to slide a road bike on a public highway with ease as you do. What I do know is that backing in, a track racing technique, can involve the rear brake in addition to the downshift. I recently recorded James Whitham confirming this during commentary on British Eurosport at Valencia WSBk Superpole session 2. Observing Johnny Rea, he confirmed that his backing in was via the rear brake, and that the advent of the slipper clutch had increased the riders reliance on the rear brake where backing in was used as a race technique. He also added that some riders will dial out the slipper clutch to also effect the downshift but this was rare now.
I respectfully PM'd you - I still have a copy in my outbox - in the hope that this would resolve the matter - explaining that this extract of commentary confirmed what I had been saying, but as a peace offering suggested in order to use all the space on the disc I could fill it with that weekends BSB racing from Brands. You ignored me. I then raised this via the forum on a subsequent twelve posts/ occasions and you continued to ignore me. Eventually you rebuffed the idea saying amongst other dismissive comments about 'instructional DVD's' that you didn't want to divulge your address, despite the fact that I had suggested using a box number. This, in spite of the fact that it was explained to you by several other members and myself that it is an extract of commentary confirming what I have been saying and not an instructional DVD. I sent you a very friendly offer, by way of reconciliation, which you completely snubbed. You then complain that everyone is 'sooking you' despite your obvious condescension and contempt of other members and their opinions.
You proudly proclaim your own erudition, yet in a post as usual littered with stupid emotions. If you are as cerebral as you purport to be, then why are you incapable of posting without constantly augmenting every sentence with an incessant succession of stupid rolling eyes and smiley faces? The only consistent thing about your posts is your over use of emotions, coupled with the fact that you unwittingly and consistently make a fool out of yourself. You also claim to be of some formidable intellect but are seemingly incapable of assimilating anyone else's post or constructively appraising the views of any other member. Why I have bothered to write such a lengthy post is beyond me in view of your inability to engage in informed discourse and your tendency to utterly ignore or try to scorn the views of others.
"Why would I want to waste time reading or watching an instructional DVD when I can go out and slide myself?" - you keep insisting. Why not do both?
Anyhow, as I said this isn't about your prowess on a bike or mine, it is about a technique employed by the professional road racer called backing in - which you not only claim to be able to do with ease, but by simply shutting the throttle on your 749s. When I initially queried this and pointed out that backing in actually involves the rear brake and the downshift you disagreed. You continue to do so. This entire exchange started because you claimed to be able to slide your bike in such a way - I questioned this, and now I call you a liar which you quite clearly are. Stop the stupid claims to greatness and back up the .........
The essence of everything I have said was confirmed by James Whitham's commentary from Valencia.
As an ex TT victor and BSB champion, 500cc GP, WSBK and WSS veteran, and currently journalist, commentator and respected race school instructor, quite frankly I'd rather listen to him over a fantasizing, self aggrandizing, deluded, ill informed internet bullshitter such as yourself.
Stick this emotion up your arse you bullshitting buffoon http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
just good old quagmire, only problem is its almost down at walking pace
