Backing in/Drifting

Sorry boys, I've lost tough of the debate. But if it will clear some things up, I will ask Nicky about his use of the back break and its purpose related to this topic when I see him.

Write up a few exact question you want me to ask please. BTW, I probably can more readily ask some of the AMA boys who are flat trackers turned road racers that are skilled and known for "backing it in" like Danny Eslick and Larry Pegram the same questions. It will be interesting to see the answers I get.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 15 2010, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry boys, I've lost tough of the debate. But if it will clear some things up, I will ask Nicky about his use of the back break and its purpose related to this topic when I see him.

Write up a few exact question you want me to ask please. BTW, I probably can more readily ask some of the AMA boys who are flat trackers turned road racers that are skilled and known for "backing it in" like Danny Eslick and Larry Pegram the same questions. It will be interesting to see the answers I get.
"when you see nicky" are you still stalking the poor lad ? I find this and the supermoto thread hilarious, It really shows berrys ignorance on the subject of backing in. He at first could not even differentiate the difference between backing in under braking and rear wheel steering (powersliding) out of the corner using the engines power. He then stated his Ducati 748? would back in purley by closing the throttle, changing down gears had nothing to do with it according to him I know you own one of these jum, does yours do this ? sounds ....... dangerous to me

I find reading these threads hilarious because as you know i owned a supermoto for many years and while owning this lunatic bike i learned to not only pull mile long wheelies but i also learned to "back in ". In fact you may or may not remember a few years back a lad opening a thread asking why he could not get the bike to go sideways. He said he was changing down 1 or 2 to ,many gears but still no joy. I then told him it was because he had no balls and was not carrying enough speed. At the time there were several lads with tards trying this technique.He came back saying it worked, he was going to slow .
When berry comes here spouting his ..... all it does for me is prove he knows nothing about the subject. He is telling me black is white He has ignored all facts and evidence presented to him. I would not waste nickys time asking questions just to panda to berrys trolling. Berry is a good laugh but he can take up to much of your time sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_PrqTlMbA...=1&index=30

Thats a bike .... not a games console or DVD ....... and with their right foot off the brake, and no audible downshifting

However is it so !!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 23 2010, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_PrqTlMbA...=1&index=30

Thats a bike .... not a games console or DVD ....... and with their right foot off the brake, and no audible downshifting

However is it so !!


Now lets have one of you on your 749s you gobshite.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 9 2010, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From your own article - which you said that I ignored, I once again present the following extracts:

"As you can see here, I have hit my braking point and have started to initiate the ritual of events.
Braking, downshifting and dragging the rear brake slightly"

"Depending on how tight the turn is that you are approaching, you may need to go from fourth or high gear all the way down to second and possibly first"

"The idea is to bang down your gears and control the rear wheel action with the clutch".

Every time you ignore something inconvenient you make yourself look more of a ..... For the ninth time...do you want the recent commentary which was also seen by Yamaka in which James Whitham talks about backing in with the assistance of the rear brake? - This will confirm my point that some riders NOT ALL, elect do this. I can fill the rest of the disc with some BSB if you like. Ninth time, and two weeks of asking and being ignored...would you like this?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 23 2010, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_PrqTlMbA...=1&index=30

Thats a bike .... not a games console or DVD ....... and with their right foot off the brake, and no audible downshifting

However is it so !!


Actually he does change down. As he approaches you hear the bike coasting, that's because he is downshifting and holding the clutch all the way in (coasting) the second he starts to feed the clutch out the bike will go sideways because the rear wheel is rotating slower than the front. as i said in one of the threads debating this , rear brake depends and is more for when your learning to control the slide. Thats why is easier to learn on left handers. notice he is Backing in under breaking and not powersliding out under power like you stated in an earlier post. 2 different techniques, the latter being the harder imho Dont be fooled by the speed of Iddon down shifting. The boy has super human talent.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 23 2010, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually he does change down. As he approaches you hear the bike coasting, that's because he is downshifting and holding the clutch all the way in (coasting) the second he starts to feed the clutch out the bike will go sideways because the rear wheel is rotating slower than the front. as i said in one of the threads debating this , rear brake depends and is more for when your learning to control the slide. Thats why is easier to learn on left handers. notice he is Backing in under breaking and not powersliding out under power like you stated in an earlier post. 2 different techniques, the latter being the harder imho Dont be fooled by the speed of Iddon down shifting. The boy has super human talent.

Perfect synopsis....and in respect of that last line, like I have said he rides like a god.

Barry try and understand, that no matter how many individual instances like this that you pluck off you tube, my contention is that there are many riders who choose to use the back brake to augment a slide. Don't forget that Iddon is showboating here. Backing in is a race technique, --arriving very hot into a corner and braking late, and as we saw at Valencia Superpole where Whitham acknowledged Rea sliding on the back brake(also seen by Yamaka, ask him), is common also in qualifying. As I have tried to explain to you on countless occasions, I am not prescribing it, or passing opinion on it, I am merely pointing out that as a race technique backing in refers to the downshift as Rog explains again for you, and in certain cases - mostly in Superbike a heap of rear brake. Although as I said, I have seen Elias and Simon do this on a two stroke and Pasini recently when qualifying for Moto 2.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 6 2010, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir!

Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.

Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think


My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....

Barry, you are quite simply A TOOL!

barry has really got you all wound up! if he were a commercial fisherman he'd have emtied the sea by now! .......................................................... either that or he has a head made of granite!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 28 2010, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> barry has really got you all wound up! if he were a commercial fisherman he'd have emtied the sea by now! .......................................................... either that or he has a head made of granite!
I don't think he has wound anyone up mate. I know he is talking .... so im not bothered, Arrab has pushed him into a corner and wont let him out. I think you will find it's us winding the troll up

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 29 2010, 06:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think he has wound anyone up mate. I know he is talking .... so im not bothered, Arrab has pushed him into a corner and wont let him out. I<span style="font-family:Arial Black think you will find it's us winding the troll up
yeah a couple of ya.... but he's blowin alot of smoke up everyone elses shorts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 29 2010, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah a couple of ya.... but he's blowin alot of smoke up everyone elses shorts.
Barrymachine is a bit like the word ..... Were so used to it now that it has lost its ability to offend

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 29 2010, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barrymachine is a bit like the word ..... Were so used to it now that it has lost its ability to offend

He`ll be back in a tangle of his own words.

Otis Driftwood said:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Apr 29 2010, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barrymachine is a bit like the word ..... Were so used to it now that it has lost its ability to offend

/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />



He`ll be back in a tangle of his own words.

/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Click to expand...

Sadly it was never going to be a debate of words, its quite obvious to me not one of you has any idea of the physics of riding so I am not wasting any more time on you. I've informed you where you are wrong ..... live with it ....... or get off the couch and go see what I mean

BarryMachine said:

Sadly it was never going to be a debate of words, its quite obvious to me not one of you has any idea of the physics of riding

so I am not wasting any more time on you. I've informed you where you are wrong ..... live with it ....... or get off the couch and go see what I mean

Click to expand...

For the tenth time...do you want the recent commentary from Valencia Superpole 2 which was also seen by Yamaka in which James Whitham talks about backing in with the assistance of the rear brake? - This will confirm my point that some riders NOT ALL, elect do this. I can fill the rest of the disc with today's BSB from Oulton Park if you like. Tenth time, and three weeks of asking and being ignored...would you like this?

Arrabbiata1 said:

For the tenth time...

Click to expand...

nobody can be so thick



you are just acting "dificult" like Rog.

BarryMachine said:

nobody can be so thick



you are just acting "dificult" like Rog.

Click to expand...

difficult ? The man offered you some bsb dvd's for free ! Guess you still need to hide behind your pathetic internet persona like billy no mates. You're a very weak man billy ,I feel sorry for you !

chopperman said:

difficult ? The man offered you some bsb dvd's for free ! Guess you still need to hide behind your pathetic internet persona like billy no mates. You're a very weak man billy ,I feel sorry for you !

Click to expand...

Rog. ask yourself ........ does Barrymachine want to watch the DVD on how to back it in ...... after reading even my first few posts, it was answered many many posts before he even asked.



Is it that its a "free DVD" Iam supposed to get excited about? the local papers here have them!, and I have gotten far better things for free in my life .....and still will



How will a DVD change my view? I have already seen some riders espousing views I disagree with, but one does have ones own "take" or opinion on things. And as I have already stated here many times if you are still ascerting that "backing in is initiated with rear brake or downshifting" this does not explain why it can be done on corners without either.... hence why I disagreed.



How does the DVD explain why 125's don't "back it in" as much? They have rear brakes and downshifting ....... no you are missing the common factors ....... thats obvious



Good namey calling there too Rog. ......... you are not only needy but a child at that



Here's some Stat's for you:

Rog. .......... posts on here: >16,000



BarryM ........" " " > 2,500



I'll let you decide what the Stat's may say ....... however I wish I could beon here as much as you making "friends" Rog.



If it makes you happy you can send me a DVD for a laugh, it will likely be funny to watch what you take as "Gospel".



But actually I don't wan't a full DVD can you not just post the bit you feel is pertinent on Youtube, that way I don't have t give you my contact details, which I most certainly would not.

BarryMachine said:

Rog. ask yourself ........ does Barrymachine want to watch the DVD on how to back it in ...... after reading even my first few posts, it was answered many many posts before he even asked.



Is it that its a "free DVD" Iam supposed to get excited about? the local papers here have them!, and I have gotten far better things for free in my life .....and still will

How will a DVD change my view? I have already seen some riders espousing views I disagree with, but one does have ones own "take" or opinion on things. And as I have already stated here many times if you are still ascerting that "backing in is initiated with rear brake or downshifting" this does not explain why it can be done on corners without either.... hence why I disagreed.



How does the DVD explain why 125's don't "back it in" as much? They have rear brakes and downshifting ....... no you are missing the common factors ....... thats obvious

Good namey calling there too Rog. ......... you are not only needy but a child at that

Here's some Stat's for you:

Rog. .......... posts on here: >16,000



BarryM ........" " " > 2,500



I'll let you decide what the Stat's may say ....... however I wish I could beon here as much as you making "friends" Rog.

If it makes you happy you can send me a DVD for a laugh, it will likely be funny to watch what you take as "Gospel".



But actually I don't wan't a full DVD can you not just post the bit you feel is pertinent on Youtube, that way I don't have t give you my contact details, which I most certainly would not.

Click to expand...

No point in repeating myself. Why you need to say the same thing in more than one thread is beyond me.



http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=12397&view=findpost&p=236703

BarryMachine said:

Rog. ask yourself ........ does Barrymachine want to watch the DVD on how to back it in ...... after reading even my first few posts, it was answered many many posts before he even asked.



Is it that its a "free DVD" Iam supposed to get excited about? the local papers here have them!, and I have gotten far better things for free in my life .....and still will

How will a DVD change my view? I have already seen some riders espousing views I disagree with, but one does have ones own "take" or opinion on things. And as I have already stated here many times if you are still ascerting that "backing in is initiated with rear brake or downshifting" this does not explain why it can be done on corners without either.... hence why I disagreed.



How does the DVD explain why 125's don't "back it in" as much? They have rear brakes and downshifting ....... no you are missing the common factors ....... thats obvious

I'll let you decide what the Stat's may say ....... however I wish I could beon here as much as you making "friends" Rog.

If it makes you happy you can send me a DVD for a laugh, it will likely be funny to watch what you take as "Gospel".



But actually I don't wan't a full DVD can you not just post the bit you feel is pertinent on Youtube, that way I don't have t give you my contact details, which I most certainly would not.

Click to expand...

That's not particularly gracious in my book.



Why are you incapable of absorbing what other people write.? As Yamaka pointed out to you, I am not offering an instructional DVD, it's not a DVD on how to back a bike in. It was a section of commentary recorded off World Superbike Coverage at Valencia, in which journalist, instructor, former TT and BSB winner, WSBk, World Supersport, 500cc GP rider, and now British Eurosport pundit and commentator was pointing to Johnny Rea's use of the back brake in backing his bike in. It is quite simply a voice from within the racing world, with infinitely more experience than yourself confirming what I have said. So yeah, I think all things considered, I would take that as gospel. Rather than put such a small segment on a disc, I wondered whether as a race fan you'd be interested in current BSB coverage to fill up the remainder of the disc - which is why I PM'd you with my offer. If someone offered me a DVD with an AMA round on it or Aussie Superbikes I'd be straight in - and very grateful. Also as I explained to you, I don't need your contact details, I could've used a P.O. box number.



I'm sorry, I thought you were an avid race fan and were interested in motorcycle racing, it was a genuine gesture of goodwill, and an opportunity for you to watch some great racing - nothing more - re-read my original PM I sent to you. All you have done is scorned the suggestion and rudely spurned my offer.



For the record, I'll say again, sliding a bike using the downshift and the rear brake constitutes backing in, so anything else you have observed is not. Your own link that you posted explained this process - and then when I posted an extract from it concerning the downshift and the rear, you are so astoundingly dim that you dismissed that as one of my 'theories' despite the fact I'd copied and pasted it it from the very article that you'd provided as a link.



I will concede however that I have heard it said that it you shut the throttle on a 749s, the bike will do it all by itself.



We have already replied several times concerning 125's, which in the absence of engine braking and significant compression and as two strokes will not tend to slide on the downshift. For the thousandth time, Elias, Simon and Pasini all frequently slid 125's with the assistance of late heavy rear braking.



You really haven't followed road racing that closely have you.

Your arrogance knows no bounds does it,Barry?.......BTW come back at me with whatever you want chap,my opinion of you is set in stone now,its no skin of my back.