Trawling thru Youtube and found a man who can.Search for Bernd Hiemer,he sheds some light on it,weapons at the ready ladies and gentlemen.
Backing in/Drifting
- Thread starter DRILL
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- backing in or drifting
Joined Feb 2007
6K Posts | 58+
Rovrum S,Yorks Eng
3 of the Best...no ..... flinging.
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this one track stuff starts about the 2min mark
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this one track stuff starts about the 2min mark
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Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Otis Driftwood @ Apr 3 2010, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Trawling thru Youtube and found a man who can.Search for Bernd Hiemer,he sheds some light on it,weapons at the ready ladies and gentlemen.
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Great clip Craig, and I know that you're quite correctly playing devils advocate here. Although interestingly he acknowledges his use of the back brake, I cannot claim a victory. Strictly speaking, and not meaning to reduce this to semantics imo this is drifting and as opposed to backing in - and is more reflective of what BM is referring to. But it's certainly a useful vid, because I see where Barry is coming from - specifically regarding the use of the throttle to keep the tyre spinning. Unfortunately this is where it becomes inconsistent, BM himself claims to shut the throttle which supposedly causes his 749s to slide with ease I might add, purely through engine braking alone
Maintaining spin and a slide around a constant radius throttle is by definition a powerslide which we have seen so entertainingly over the years in GP. I'm trying to get across to BM that 'backing in' is on the approach and entry to a turn, usually a decreasing radius bend or even a hairpin. - Look no further than Toni Elias at Estoril '06. If you have it, watch it again with commentary to illustrate what I mean. Even with the advent of a slipper clutch, the rear end is slung out and slides as a result of the downshift/engine braking - ironically the same mechanism that Barry purports to slide his Ducati - minus of course the downshift which he supposedly doesn't require. In addition to that, watch Elias and it's impossible to come to the conclusion that there is no rear braking involved. He and Simon used to slide a 250 in a similar way, and obviously the engine braking on a 2 stroke is practically non existent.
Couldn't find many good examples of Estoril '06 - but I did find this from the following year. This is what I take to mean by backing it in as opposed to powersliding - although I suppose you could term it a drift. Typical of Toni - he ends up braking too deep
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Barry, I welcome your interpretation/diagnosis
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Great clip Craig, and I know that you're quite correctly playing devils advocate here. Although interestingly he acknowledges his use of the back brake, I cannot claim a victory. Strictly speaking, and not meaning to reduce this to semantics imo this is drifting and as opposed to backing in - and is more reflective of what BM is referring to. But it's certainly a useful vid, because I see where Barry is coming from - specifically regarding the use of the throttle to keep the tyre spinning. Unfortunately this is where it becomes inconsistent, BM himself claims to shut the throttle which supposedly causes his 749s to slide with ease I might add, purely through engine braking alone
Couldn't find many good examples of Estoril '06 - but I did find this from the following year. This is what I take to mean by backing it in as opposed to powersliding - although I suppose you could term it a drift. Typical of Toni - he ends up braking too deep
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Barry, I welcome your interpretation/diagnosis
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 4 2010, 04:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Barry, I welcome your interpretation/diagnosis
Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir!
Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.
Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think
My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....
Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir!
Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.
Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think
My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 6 2010, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir!
Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.
Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think
My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....
But what about the gears then berry ?
Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.
Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think
My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....
But what about the gears then berry ?
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 6 2010, 05:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vid. 1 ........ Thank you Sir!
Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.
Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think
My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....
But I have provided countless links to riders that say do - even in one link that you posted, which I pointed out at the time. As I originally said, the degree to which this is applied really does appear to be down to rider preference.
I notice you've conveniently moved on again from the Hayden rear disc.
Toni runs deep on that video, but doesn't apply the rear brake as a consequence - you can already see him hanging the rear out under braking, and he does this on many corners irrespective of whether he is deep into the turn or not, which is why backing in in GP was far more prevalent in the 990 era. IT IS A TECHNIQUE THAT TONI USES - try to understand that. It is particular to some riders. As I've said, I remember him doing the same on a 250, just a Simon was doing last year in fact. As Rog says, what of the downshift? You have consistently insisted that this is not important in backing a bike in. You have been consistently proved wrong.
Incidently, I have not ridden a 749s, but I did ride a 748, and it was in a word gutless. A buddy of mine has a 1098 and it simply doesn't lock up the rear end when you close the throttle without stomping down the cogs - and even then the slipper clutch is set in such away that it's practically impossible. Like Rog and I said, the Suzuki TL1000 had models recalled following a tragic death and some resultant dubious claims about front end stability, an as a result a steering damper was fitted as standard on subsequent models. According to you Ducati market bikes that lock the rear tyre with ease - forget the downshift, all you have to to do is shut the throttle. I invite anyone on this forum to venture into their nearest Ducati dealer and ask for a road going product that does just that. You made another gargantuan ........ in that initial post, but refuse to back down. Carry on - you are simply making a complete fool out of yourself as usual.
Just to clarify readers. Barry slides his 749s when slowing for corners, merely by shutting the throttle. You have just said in the above post that they have a propensity to break loose on deceleration, but you originally said that you accomplish this with ease, and whatsmore without using the downshift.
Barry you keep exhorting people to get off the couch and just do it. Saying that you do something over the internet is actually pretty easy. You don't even in fact have to get of the settee be a bullshitter extraordinaire. I'll; give you this BM, when it comes to ........ you are the ......' GOAT.
I am very likely visiting some friends in Brisbane again one day possibly in 2011 or 2012, and I pledge this for all to see on here. Wherever you are, I will personally travel to meet you from there at my extra time and expense and film you on my camcorder sliding your 749s into a turn without any downshift, and purely by closing the throttle. I fully accept that this is such a rare and extraordinary talent that it necessitates an 11,000 mile journey to witness or find in the world - but am prepared to travel to see it. Or maybe you could save me the trouble and post a video of your exploits on here for us all to enjoy.
Vid. 2 ........ yes he came in too hot and ran it out wide. Who knows why, could have got it too loose with the rear brake prior to setting up for the corner could have just come in too hot, I can't tell from that vid. WHatever the case Elias apologised, as he always seems to, he's fun to watch some times.
Now on the V-Twins ...... yes they have a propensity to get loose in the back end on deceleration, it happened several times on the 749S, and to me thats mild compared to the bigger Duc.s. As I said it happens too easy with the 749S. You ride one then tell me what you think
My comments Arab. ..... what more can I say ..... you were wrong......
As Matt Pursely said and that guy in the first vid said ( and they are riders, not commentators or spectators ) ...... DON'T USE THE REAR BRAKE!! to initiate a slide .....
But I have provided countless links to riders that say do - even in one link that you posted, which I pointed out at the time. As I originally said, the degree to which this is applied really does appear to be down to rider preference.
I notice you've conveniently moved on again from the Hayden rear disc.
Toni runs deep on that video, but doesn't apply the rear brake as a consequence - you can already see him hanging the rear out under braking, and he does this on many corners irrespective of whether he is deep into the turn or not, which is why backing in in GP was far more prevalent in the 990 era. IT IS A TECHNIQUE THAT TONI USES - try to understand that. It is particular to some riders. As I've said, I remember him doing the same on a 250, just a Simon was doing last year in fact. As Rog says, what of the downshift? You have consistently insisted that this is not important in backing a bike in. You have been consistently proved wrong.
Incidently, I have not ridden a 749s, but I did ride a 748, and it was in a word gutless. A buddy of mine has a 1098 and it simply doesn't lock up the rear end when you close the throttle without stomping down the cogs - and even then the slipper clutch is set in such away that it's practically impossible. Like Rog and I said, the Suzuki TL1000 had models recalled following a tragic death and some resultant dubious claims about front end stability, an as a result a steering damper was fitted as standard on subsequent models. According to you Ducati market bikes that lock the rear tyre with ease - forget the downshift, all you have to to do is shut the throttle. I invite anyone on this forum to venture into their nearest Ducati dealer and ask for a road going product that does just that. You made another gargantuan ........ in that initial post, but refuse to back down. Carry on - you are simply making a complete fool out of yourself as usual.
Just to clarify readers. Barry slides his 749s when slowing for corners, merely by shutting the throttle. You have just said in the above post that they have a propensity to break loose on deceleration, but you originally said that you accomplish this with ease, and whatsmore without using the downshift.
Barry you keep exhorting people to get off the couch and just do it. Saying that you do something over the internet is actually pretty easy. You don't even in fact have to get of the settee be a bullshitter extraordinaire. I'll; give you this BM, when it comes to ........ you are the ......' GOAT.
I am very likely visiting some friends in Brisbane again one day possibly in 2011 or 2012, and I pledge this for all to see on here. Wherever you are, I will personally travel to meet you from there at my extra time and expense and film you on my camcorder sliding your 749s into a turn without any downshift, and purely by closing the throttle. I fully accept that this is such a rare and extraordinary talent that it necessitates an 11,000 mile journey to witness or find in the world - but am prepared to travel to see it. Or maybe you could save me the trouble and post a video of your exploits on here for us all to enjoy.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 6 2010, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i just attack the corner full throttle and jam my heal into the rear rim
Barry just talks out of his
Barry just talks out of his
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 7 2010, 05:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But I have provided countless links to riders that say do - even in one link that you posted, which I pointed out at the time. As I originally said, the degree to which this is applied really does appear to be down to rider preference.
No you provided indistinct write ups and video's which you misinterpretted. Ans when I posted a very clear and distinct article on the matter you ignored it. As you have that Video Otis provided
In any case if you are so keen to "back it in with the back brake" go out and do it a few times.
That will wisen you up or shut you up! one way or the other
No you provided indistinct write ups and video's which you misinterpretted. Ans when I posted a very clear and distinct article on the matter you ignored it. As you have that Video Otis provided
In any case if you are so keen to "back it in with the back brake" go out and do it a few times.
That will wisen you up or shut you up! one way or the other
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 8 2010, 01:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No you provided indistinct write ups and video's which you misinterpretted. Ans when I posted a very clear and distinct article on the matter you ignored it. As you have that Video Otis provided
In any case if you are so keen to "back it in with the back brake" go out and do it a few times.
That will wisen you up or shut you up! one way or the other
Explain why I misinterpreted them - you can see the smoke coming from the tyre and hear the squeal you fool. Furthermore, post the link with the article I supposedly ignored and we'll see if if provided a follow up in the thread. I haven't ignored the video Craig posted you imbecile:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2010, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Great clip Craig, and I know that you're quite correctly playing devils advocate here. Although interestingly he acknowledges his use of the back brake, I cannot claim a victory. Strictly speaking, and not meaning to reduce this to semantics imo this is drifting and as opposed to backing in - and is more reflective of what BM is referring to. But it's certainly a useful vid, because I see where Barry is coming from - specifically regarding the use of the throttle to keep the tyre spinning. Unfortunately this is where it becomes inconsistent, BM himself claims to shut the throttle which supposedly causes his 749s to slide with ease I might add, purely through engine braking alone
Maintaining spin and a slide around a constant radius throttle is by definition a powerslide which we have seen so entertainingly over the years in GP. I'm trying to get across to BM that 'backing in' is on the approach and entry to a turn, usually a decreasing radius bend or even a hairpin. - Look no further than Toni Elias at Estoril '06. If you have it, watch it again with commentary to illustrate what I mean. Even with the advent of a slipper clutch, the rear end is slung out and slides as a result of the downshift/engine braking - ironically the same mechanism that Barry purports to slide his Ducati - minus of course the downshift which he supposedly doesn't require. In addition to that, watch Elias and it's impossible to come to the conclusion that there is no rear braking involved. He and Simon used to slide a 250 in a similar way, and obviously the engine braking on a 2 stroke is practically non existent.
At what point did I say I was so keen to 'back it in with the back brake'. I merely said that it is a technique favoured by some professional riders, (many of whom I cited) to employ the back brake in conjunction with the downshift.
Like I say, I have friends in Brisbane - I will visit them again in due course, I'll give you a shout - I'll make the effort and look you up, and you can show me how to properly slide a road bike. In the meantime, I have nothing to hide, I'll go out for a ride or meet up for a track day with anyone in the UK who cares to PM me. I very much doubt that you would be so forthcoming Barry. Why could that be?
In any case if you are so keen to "back it in with the back brake" go out and do it a few times.
That will wisen you up or shut you up! one way or the other
Explain why I misinterpreted them - you can see the smoke coming from the tyre and hear the squeal you fool. Furthermore, post the link with the article I supposedly ignored and we'll see if if provided a follow up in the thread. I haven't ignored the video Craig posted you imbecile:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 3 2010, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'><object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uxYiWOJ59Vg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Great clip Craig, and I know that you're quite correctly playing devils advocate here. Although interestingly he acknowledges his use of the back brake, I cannot claim a victory. Strictly speaking, and not meaning to reduce this to semantics imo this is drifting and as opposed to backing in - and is more reflective of what BM is referring to. But it's certainly a useful vid, because I see where Barry is coming from - specifically regarding the use of the throttle to keep the tyre spinning. Unfortunately this is where it becomes inconsistent, BM himself claims to shut the throttle which supposedly causes his 749s to slide with ease I might add, purely through engine braking alone
At what point did I say I was so keen to 'back it in with the back brake'. I merely said that it is a technique favoured by some professional riders, (many of whom I cited) to employ the back brake in conjunction with the downshift.
Like I say, I have friends in Brisbane - I will visit them again in due course, I'll give you a shout - I'll make the effort and look you up, and you can show me how to properly slide a road bike. In the meantime, I have nothing to hide, I'll go out for a ride or meet up for a track day with anyone in the UK who cares to PM me. I very much doubt that you would be so forthcoming Barry. Why could that be?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 8 2010, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>and you can show me how to properly slide a road bike. In the meantime,
If you are 'backing it in' on the road at any point then you are certainly not riding very well, and Barry if your Ducati loses rear traction simply by shutting the throttle, take it to a local dealer because its broken.
If you are 'backing it in' on the road at any point then you are certainly not riding very well, and Barry if your Ducati loses rear traction simply by shutting the throttle, take it to a local dealer because its broken.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 8 2010, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you are 'backing it in' on the road at any point then you are certainly not riding very well, and Barry if your Ducati loses rear traction simply by shutting the throttle, take it to a local dealer because its broken.
Agree with both points
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Dingle Berry!?
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Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 9 2010, 05:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you are 'backing it in' on the road at any point then you are certainly not riding very well, and Barry if your Ducati loses rear traction simply by shutting the throttle, take it to a local dealer because its broken.
No it wasn't broken
I was just plain doing things I should not have been cos its a fun bike to ride, and one gets carried away at times
But I stand by my statement that it lets the back go pretty easily.
Again I say, try one and tell me what you think ...... not one of you has even given their ride impression of the 749, so its become somewhat obvious that this is merely a sook/..... at BM for the sake of it
But I stand by my statement that it lets the back go pretty easily.
Again I say, try one and tell me what you think ...... not one of you has even given their ride impression of the 749, so its become somewhat obvious that this is merely a sook/..... at BM for the sake of it
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 9 2010, 04:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like I say, I have friends in Brisbane - I will visit them again in due course, I'll give you a shout - I'll make the effort and look you up, and you can show me how to properly slide a road bike. In the meantime, I have nothing to hide, I'll go out for a ride or meet up for a track day with anyone in the UK who cares to PM me. I very much doubt that you would be so forthcoming Barry. Why could that be?
You are on!!
could be a fun day.
You provide:
The bike ( no inlne 4, want say RC8 or 1098, funn factor is higher )
The venue, or we can take a trip on some conducive roads
You are on!!
could be a fun day.
You provide:
The bike ( no inlne 4, want say RC8 or 1098, funn factor is higher )
The venue, or we can take a trip on some conducive roads
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 9 2010, 06:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dingle Berry!?
<object width="425" height="350<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TVXQK5GavVM</param><param name="wmode" value="transparent</param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TVXQK5GavVM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350</embed></object>
Um you are aware that that guy is using the technique Arab. purports is how its done?
and in fact again backs up the "kids skids" label
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Um you are aware that that guy is using the technique Arab. purports is how its done?
and in fact again backs up the "kids skids" label
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 8 2010, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
No it wasn't broken
I'll admit i'm late to this one a little, but if i understand you correctly you are suggesting the back end of your bike gets loose simply by shutting the throttle, without changing down gears or using the brakes. That is not correct. Also in a general sense backing it in can and is done with the back brake to help, but its not hugely significant since under hard braking there is very little weight on the rear wheel anyway
I'll admit i'm late to this one a little, but if i understand you correctly you are suggesting the back end of your bike gets loose simply by shutting the throttle, without changing down gears or using the brakes. That is not correct. Also in a general sense backing it in can and is done with the back brake to help, but its not hugely significant since under hard braking there is very little weight on the rear wheel anyway
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 8 2010, 11:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Um you are aware that that guy is using the technique Arab. purports is how its done?
and in fact again backs up the "kids skids" label
No I don't, as you well know and as I have clarified in quite possibly 50 posts now which is why we've driven the rest of this forum insane with the tedium of this and have been given our own thread on the topic. You keep ignoring the downshift which is the most important factor. Whenever someone brings it up you disregard it - you've even done it on this thread. I said that backing into a corner was on the approach, on the downshift, with the throttle shut or blipped to match the revs when changing down, (although this is not so necessary with the advent of rider aids). The back brake is often also used to scrub speed or for stability, or to even initiate or increase the slide. I have also stated repeatedly that it is down to rider discretion. Some use only the front, and will tend to as Tom correctly says, elevate the rear wheel, others snake the rear like BBoz, and others produced full on slides with it like the late Craig Jones. I am not prescribing use of the rear brake, I am merely pointing out and illustrating that it is nonetheless a technique in backing a bike in.
Everyone is right, you are a troll Barry, but a troll of the worst kind because you're not a very clever one.
and in fact again backs up the "kids skids" label
No I don't, as you well know and as I have clarified in quite possibly 50 posts now which is why we've driven the rest of this forum insane with the tedium of this and have been given our own thread on the topic. You keep ignoring the downshift which is the most important factor. Whenever someone brings it up you disregard it - you've even done it on this thread. I said that backing into a corner was on the approach, on the downshift, with the throttle shut or blipped to match the revs when changing down, (although this is not so necessary with the advent of rider aids). The back brake is often also used to scrub speed or for stability, or to even initiate or increase the slide. I have also stated repeatedly that it is down to rider discretion. Some use only the front, and will tend to as Tom correctly says, elevate the rear wheel, others snake the rear like BBoz, and others produced full on slides with it like the late Craig Jones. I am not prescribing use of the rear brake, I am merely pointing out and illustrating that it is nonetheless a technique in backing a bike in.
Everyone is right, you are a troll Barry, but a troll of the worst kind because you're not a very clever one.
