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Did anyone ever think that perhaps it isn't the fault of the tyres or Hayden or HRC or a Drona conspiracy or VSGs or having Vito Guareschi as a test rider and that maybe, just maybe, Ducati have no ....... idea how to build a decent MotoGP bike and if it wasn't for 2007 we wouldn't give them a second thought?


 


There was never this much talk about Suzuki or Kawasaki and they were generally running about the same pace as Ducati.


 


Also, I hate the single tyre rule as much as anyone. We need competing tyre companies but the allocations should be distributed to riders each weekend based on lottery to prevent favouritism/specials. Eg. There is a container of Spec A, Spec B and Spec E available for the weekend and an independent distributes them based on what the team requests for their riders.


 


And qualifying tyres. I want to see how fast these bikes can really go.
 
Sloth_27
3587361376979799

Did anyone ever think that perhaps it isn't the fault of the tyres or Hayden or HRC or a Drona conspiracy or VSGs or having Vito Guareschi as a test rider and that maybe, just maybe, Ducati have no ....... idea how to build a decent MotoGP bike and if it wasn't for 2007 we wouldn't give them a second thought?


 


There was never this much talk about Suzuki or Kawasaki and they were generally running about the same pace as Ducati.


 


Also, I hate the single tyre rule as much as anyone. We need competing tyre companies but the allocations should be distributed to riders each weekend based on lottery to prevent favouritism/specials. Eg. There is a container of Spec A, Spec B and Spec E available for the weekend and an independent distributes them based on what the team requests for their riders.


 


And qualifying tyres. I want to see how fast these bikes can really go.
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I have also wondered, what if Stoner had never ridden that squealing pig to victory, would Ducati still be in MotoGP? Or would they be departed ie Suzi and Kawi? Would Rossi have a desire to ride it if Stoner had not shown the world what IT could win? I say no. Without Stoner there would be no Duck in the race today.


 


Racing DNA is a goal for bike builders but they need to remember a well known fact. A gazelle is very fast indeed but it will always loose out in a race with a cheetah. Why? Because the cheetah is hungry.
 
whammy
3587391376982052

I have also wondered, what if Stoner had never ridden that squealing pig to victory, would Ducati still be in MotoGP? Or would they be departed ie Suzi and Kawi? Would Rossi have a desire to ride it if Stoner had not shown the world what IT could win? I say no. Without Stoner there would be no Duck in the race today.


 


Racing DNA is a goal for bike builders but they need to remember a well known fact. A gazelle is very fast indeed but it will always loose out in a race with a cheetah. Why? Because the cheetah is hungry.
Click to expand...


 


Not true. A cheetah only has a 50% hunting success rate. And big cats specifically target the weak, old, and lame to make it easier for themselves
 
AnnoyingTwit
3587481376987681

Not true. A cheetah only has a 50% hunting success rate. And big cats specifically target the weak, old, and lame to make it easier for themselves
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With such a low success rate I am wondering just why the cheetahs have not died out. Can you explain that. I only ask because you appear to be an expert on ....... While you are thinking about an answer keep this in the back of your mind. The gazelle is running for it's life whereas the cheetah just wants a snack to eat.
 
whammy
3587511376989047

With such a low success rate I am wondering just why the cheetahs have not died out. Can you explain that. I only ask because you appear to be an expert on ....... While you are thinking about an answer keep this in the back of your mind. The gazelle is running for it's life whereas the cheetah just wants a snack to eat.
Click to expand...


 


Clearly Ducati need to hire a cheetah to ride one of their bikes, with the reward that it gets to eat any other Ducati rider that it finishes ahead of.
 
50% is pretty good, certainly not gonna die out based on that lol..... also a 50% success rate in motogp would also be more than enough for most manufacturers
 
Austin
3587111376967550

I overheard a conversation in Indianapolis involving a very well-connected personality in the paddock who said he has the impression Honda are becoming aware of the farcical appearance of the series and went so far as to suggest they may be offering advice and expertise to Ducati. Krop, have you hard anything like this?
Click to expand...
When Neil Spalding got his spy shot of the Honda, confirming it was a 90 degree V4, there were many who believed that HRC did so on purpose, to send a message to Ducati that the engine angle wasn't the problem, and to look elsewhere for solutions. There is good reason to believe this is true. Honda DO NOT allow their bikes to be photographed, always cover everything, and either have the garage door shut or modesty screens up. They do not leave bikes unattended. Yet an RC213V was left in an empty garage, with the fairings off, with the garage doors up, where a photographer who was known for his attention to technical details and his tendency to take close up, detailed shots of motorcycles was known to be roaming with his camera.

Honda love to win, but they want to have someone to beat, otherwise the victory is meaningless. They may stack the deck in their favor, but only a little, not blatantly.Austin
3587111376967550

Is every other cigarette brand in Europe really hurting that badly because they got out of racing? I mean, I haven't seen a cig sponsor outside of Marlboro in any form of racing for, what, four or five years? Smoking still seems to be the thing to do over there.
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This isn't about selling cigarettes, it's about building business relationships. Those relationships can be built anywhere, but PM need a glamorous backdrop to oil the wheels of commerce. They have been using motor sports for so long that to do something different would require a major effort. They would also have to do so without attracting the attention of the EU, wherever they went, if they went in to film festivals, culinary festivals, horse racing, tennis, whatever. Any transfer of funds from PM to the organizer of an event would be seen as advertising or marketing, which is illegal in Europe, both inside and outside of sports. And PM would have to put money into the event to get the control and access which they need to sell the glamour to their business partners. The link up with Ducati and Ferrari is tolerated, because of the historic link. Any new moves would require a marketing push, and the EU would not tolerate that.
 
Kropotkin
3587591376997217

When Neil Spalding got his spy shot of the Honda, confirming it was a 90 degree V4, there were many who believed that HRC did so on purpose, to send a message to Ducati that the engine angle wasn't the problem, and to look elsewhere for solutions. There is good reason to believe this is true. Honda DO NOT allow their bikes to be photographed, always cover everything, and either have the garage door shut or modesty screens up. They do not leave bikes unattended. Yet an RC213V was left in an empty garage, with the fairings off, with the garage doors up, where a photographer who was known for his attention to technical details and his tendency to take close up, detailed shots of motorcycles was known to be roaming with his camera.


Honda love to win, but they want to have someone to beat, otherwise the victory is meaningless. They may stack the deck in their favor, but only a little, not blatantly.This isn't about selling cigarettes, it's about building business relationships. Those relationships can be built anywhere, but PM need a glamorous backdrop to oil the wheels of commerce. They have been using motor sports for so long that to do something different would require a major effort. They would also have to do so without attracting the attention of the EU, wherever they went, if they went in to film festivals, culinary festivals, horse racing, tennis, whatever. Any transfer of funds from PM to the organizer of an event would be seen as advertising or marketing, which is illegal in Europe, both inside and outside of sports. And PM would have to put money into the event to get the control and access which they need to sell the glamour to their business partners. The link up with Ducati and Ferrari is tolerated, because of the historic link. Any new moves would require a marketing push, and the EU would not tolerate that.
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Problem is, Krop, there was no spy shot.

Just an oblique angled photo not dissimilar to ones I've taken. It was a statement from Nakas, not a photo from Spakers that said 90deg. I'm not disputing the angle, just the source.

Find me a side-on shot of last year's Honda with the fairings off and I'll leave this alone.
 
Dr No
3587651377001924

Problem is, Krop, there was no spy shot.
Just an oblique angled photo not dissimilar to ones I've taken. It was a statement from Nakas, not a photo from Spakers that said 90deg. I'm not disputing the angle, just the source.
Find me a side-on shot of last year's Honda with the fairings off and I'll leave this alone.
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With all due respect, Honda don't care about your pictures of the Honda. They really, really care about Spalding's pictures, and those of other professionals, because they know that Yamaha techs will get to see Spalding's photos, while they will probably not get to see yours (though this too is changing). They fear that Spalding might stumble on something which Yamaha could use.

Of course, the most interesting thing about this is that increasingly, 'amateur' photos are becoming more prevalent and pose more of a risk. You can buy a package with Pole Position travel (editorial note, the advertise on my site) to go see the Sepang tests, and you can wander up and down the pit lane and there's lots to see. I saw a bunch of very detailed close ups of the Ducati from early 2012, taken by a 'tourist'. Teams keep their eyes on anyone with a permanent pass, forget where the real danger is coming from nowadays..
 
gui22a said:
I highly doubt it as someone not much time ago raised this question and Nakamoto immediately denied "no help to big companies", he said with his ape face. Ducati is not an small company anymore.



Moreover, Ducati does not need any help from Honda, they only need a ....... tire from Bridgestone. If Honda really wants to help Ducati, then stoping acting like a dictator would be a great start.
Gobmeier asked for the tire, Guareschi and Pirro, both made loud and clear: 2 weeks of work from Bridgestone and Ducati magically could cut 8 tenths per lap without a quarter dollar wasted.
Where is the ....... tire? There is none. It won't be the new hard compound.
So, is there any really willing to help Ducati?
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Haha, so....the HRC man is asked 'pubiclly, he then denies it. Ah yes, proof positive it didnt happen then.

I agree they need a custom tire. Thing is they cant just "send a message" to Bridgestone. That message has to come from Carmelo.

 
gui22a
3586711376947039

Dorna is giving a .... for Ducati.


 


If they really want to help, they would do it back in 2011 with Rossi. If Dorna didn't move a bit to help Ducati even with Valentino, instead, move Rossi out from the brand, let alone now. Dorna won't help, and if Ducati leaves, it's ok because Honda will fill the the gap left with production RCV. That is the agenda. 


 


Also, the rules for 2014 are encouraging tiny brands like Aprillia to entry back as an semi-MSMA, so who cares with Ducati? That's the policy. 


 


The new tire was not made for Ducati, was made for everybody to help all riders in hot conditions. 


 


Really, thinks are very, very difficult for Ducati in MotoGP as an MSMA. 
Click to expand...


 


Rossi was the help. When Rossi/Burgess couldn't get the Ducati sorted, Dorna had no backup plan.
 
Kropotkin
3587591376997217

When Neil Spalding got his spy shot of the Honda, confirming it was a 90 degree V4, there were many who believed that HRC did so on purpose, to send a message to Ducati that the engine angle wasn't the problem, and to look elsewhere for solutions. There is good reason to believe this is true. Honda DO NOT allow their bikes to be photographed, always cover everything, and either have the garage door shut or modesty screens up. They do not leave bikes unattended. Yet an RC213V was left in an empty garage, with the fairings off, with the garage doors up, where a photographer who was known for his attention to technical details and his tendency to take close up, detailed shots of motorcycles was known to be roaming with his camera.

 
Click to expand...


 


hmm.. Honda would waste 1 or more years redesigning their engine, "accidentally" forget the garage door open, just to pose for a shot to send a "hello world" for Ducati, instead of redesigning their engine to 90 degrees because of the advantages of this configuration, especially with bigger bore/stroke. hmm, ok... Maybe Nakamoto should try e-mail next time, it's a much faster and cheaper form to send messages.
 
mylexicon
3587771377010179

Rossi was the help. When Rossi/Burgess couldn't get the Ducati sorted, Dorna had no backup plan.
Click to expand...


 


I thought Rossi went to Ducati because he wanted and thought Ducati was good enough, not because a Dorna request to save Ducati (cause Rossi is the engineer of the engineers.. lol).
 
Jumkie
3587761377008442

Haha, so....the HRC man is asked 'pubiclly, he then denies it. Ah yes, proof positive it didnt happen then. I agree they need a custom tire. Thing is they cant just "send a message" to Bridgestone. That message has to come from Carmelo.
Click to expand...


 


What interest Honda have in helping Ducati? The same they had in helping Kawasaki and Suzuki to have competitors? 


 


Honda needs only Yamaha to play around, and it's enough. Maybe, if one day Yamaha needs a hand, Honda will give. Maybe.


 


Nobody cares for Ducati, it's just another Kawasaki running around. 


 


MotoGP is 100% polarized in Honda-Yamaha clashes, it's like the Sun and the Moon (Rossi's helmet). All the rest is just far tiny stars.
 
gui22a
3587811377013245

I thought Rossi went to Ducati because he wanted and thought Ducati was good enough, not because a Dorna request to save Ducati (cause Rossi is the engineer of the engineers.. lol).
Click to expand...


And 20 million euros,  people seem to forget this little matter when they say Cal is a money grabber.
 
Austin
3587111376967550

I overheard a conversation in Indianapolis involving a very well-connected personality in the paddock who said he has the impression Honda are becoming aware of the farcical appearance of the series and went so far as to suggest they may be offering advice and expertise to Ducati. Krop, have you hard anything like this?

 
Click to expand...


 


The rumor sounds outrageous, but it could be true. First, I believe Honda allowed Rossi to leave for Yamaha due to the poor performance of the M1 at the outset of MotoGP. Second, Cristian Gabbarini et al were poached from Ducati, and Honda might not be opposed to sharing a bit of data.


 


Nakamoto said that Honda play nice. I've never really doubted it, but MotoGP shouldn't be a country club. This reminds me of country club golf tournaments, when a certain clique of members will grant one another mulligans to make sure their political circle remains on top of the leaderboard. If HRC are intersted in giving away data, they might as well hand out free data to Kawasaki, BMW, and Aprilia.
 
I agree with most u are saying Gui, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn gamesmanship is played out behind scenes for various reasons. Consider this my bias.....and what I 'know' of the human world. Im not completely buying Honda being concerned about Ducati, but I wouldnt dispel it either. The motoracing community is a unique and niche bunch tied togethet by a strong passion for the sport. No telling what unconventional and unintuitive .... they're capable of.

My great pleasure however is that Krops can suggest HRC & Yam might have title rigged, but when I suggest Marc was on a cheater bike (with other paddock insiders, riders, and mags suggesting same...not to mention the peculiar video evidence to suggest an oulier) im suddenly the tin foil moon denier type. Haha.
 
Jumkie
3587881377015512

I agree with most u are saying Gui, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn gamesmanship is played out behind scenes for various reasons. Consider this my bias.....and what I 'know' of the human world. Im not completely buying Honda being concerned about Ducati, but I wouldnt dispel it either. The motoracing community is a unique and niche bunch tied togethet by a strong passion for the sport. No telling what unconventional and unintuitive .... they're capable of. My great pleasure however is that Krops can suggest HRC & Yam might have title rigged, but when I suggest Marc was on a cheater bike (with other paddock insiders, riders, and mags suggesting same...not to mention the peculiar video evidence to suggest an oulier) im suddenly the tin foil moon denier type. Haha.
Click to expand...
HRC & Yamaha don't have the title rigged. They don't rig races. They rig the series, by making the rules, and making it too expensive for others to compete. Rigging races is too difficult. Rigging race series is much better, especially if you control the rules.

And Marquez didn't have a cheater bike. It was completely legal. If you watch MotoGP at all, you will notice Marquez doing quite well on the factory Honda. In fact, he's in front of his teammate, who has been there for a while. I suspect he may be quite the talent.
 
Kropotkin
3587911377016423

HRC & Yamaha don't have the title rigged. They don't rig races. They rig the series, by making the rules, and making it too expensive for others to compete. Rigging races is too difficult. Rigging race series is much better, especially if you control the rules.


And Marquez didn't have a cheater bike. It was completely legal. If you watch MotoGP at all, you will notice Marquez doing quite well on the factory Honda. In fact, he's in front of his teammate, who has been there for a while. I suspect he may be quite the talent.
Click to expand...


No Krop you are wrong, he is on a 1200 and all the others have been reduced to 500,  Honda and Yamaha have agreed to this as Carmelo is the head of the Iluminati  and Dorna are all reptilion aliens here to take over the world via moto gp.
 

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