Aragon MotoMarquez.2 probably some sort of information concerning the rider who arrive first

Jumkie said:

Agree with some of your points, but the extended reality is that ultimately men are running the league, and where anything can be manipulated in favor of some but detrimental to others, they will do it.

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Here I agree with you, Jum. So what is the point of bitching about a universal truth? As to Marquez... I am sure he has an advantage... within the rules.

Jumkie said:

Agree with some of your points, but the extended reality is that ultimately men are running the league, and where anything can be manipulated in favor of some but detrimental to others, they will do it. Friend, you, like Tom may not believe Carmelo had anything to do with VR's signing of Yamaha, but the observed reality tells another story. You guys may also not believe the rookie rule was discarded for Marquez, perhaps with some backroom deal with HRC, but the observed reality tells another story. When some of us observed Marc on the track, we observe a bike that is vastly superior to his rivals, you want to dispute this reality? Regarding your point about "standard" engines, well, we have a "standard" tire in MotoGP, did that keep peeps, including riders themselves, sighting a tire conspiracy? What about Wsbk, did you know they also run a "standard" tire? And guess what, its also believed to be manipulated. You know why my respected friends, because the REALITY on the field with the ........ they claim does NOT coincide.



Lets just backtrack a bit. Do you believe, yes or no, simply answer, that Marc has an "acceleration advantage"? Simple yes or no answer will suffice. Then we can go from there.

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100% agree, MMs bike has a clear advantage,he doesnt even need to draft for christ sake.and if anyone has doubts that these things happen look at Tom Sykes,the back end of that thing kills tires but now he is finishing races but they have not changed the the bike they are just getting the right tires fact.

Oh yeah dont get me wrong MM is awsome and gonna shake the .... out of Moto gp

Again, "Look, Look, Look, cant you see!" is not proof. What´s the basis for the arguments? Some of these "theories" are making you sound like bible thumpin creationists!



Tom Sykes is in SBK, this is Moto 2. There is no tire/tyre discussion in Moto 2.

thedeal said:

100% agree, MMs bike has a clear advantage,he doesnt even need to draft for christ sake.and if anyone has doubts that these things happen look at Tom Sykes,the back end of that thing kills tires but now he is finishing races but they have not changed the the bike they are just getting the right tires fact.

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Hahahhahahahaha - you da deal! LOL!!!

Some people just love a good conspiracy, the type of people that think that things are untrue on the basis they are generally accepted, and the type of people who cannot accept that success can be obtained legitimately, usually because they can't work out why they haven't got it

baturro said:

Again, "Look, Look, Look, cant you see!" is not proof. What´s the basis for the arguments? Some of these "theories" are making you sound like bible thumpin creationists!



Tom Sykes is in SBK, this is Moto 2. There is no tire/tyre discussion in Moto 2.

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not bashing any bible just saying what i see,the Tom Sykes thing was just to prove that special treatment is given in sport,but dont take my word for it half the WSB paddock are saying it and many Moto 2 riders roll there eyes at MMs bike advantage,but if you cant/wont see it no probs your choice.

Who rolls their eyes in Moto 2?? What teams, riders? I'm serious, I don't see it, please show me, please, I've been asking for proof of this so called advantage since the start of the season. Only time I've seen anyone question another teams possible mechanical advantage was the first season of Moto 2. Elias's Gresini team was questioning Ianone's bike. If I recall it was checked and given the all clear.



It's innocent until proven guilty. You think the team is guilty? Prove it.



Actually, you don't have too. Tec inspection does that. So far, innocent.

Questions for the claimers of foul play,



If there is such acceleration advantage and speed advantage, how come Marques is not always on Pole? Is he a nice guy and likes to give the other guys a little bit of a fighting chance? Likes to practice overtakes? Or is told to not make it so obvious he has cheating goods and needs to downplay the advantage or do they dial down the hp?



Marquez always wants to win at everything. There is no way he wouldn´t take pole if there was a way he could.

I've got to chime in here.



Last year was the first year I started watching moto2 and I one of the first things I noticed was at the end almost EVERY long straight MM sitting up before everybody else. Usually not even in a draft.



Maybe he just has an aerodynamic/weight advantage, maybe it's something else. But it's plain to see that its happening

All i know is if this tire bs and unfair advantages thing is really, 100% proven true, then i think i could no longer be a fan .





I'm not talking about better bikes and packages, but specifically cheating. That would suck.

baturro said:

Questions for the claimers of foul play,



If there is such acceleration advantage and speed advantage, how come Marques is not always on Pole?

#1 Is he a nice guy and likes to give the other guys a little bit of a fighting chance?

#2 Likes to practice overtakes?

#3 Or is told to not make it so obvious he has cheating goods and needs to downplay the advantage or do they dial down the hp?

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"I'll take Door #3, Monty!"

If there is a 'cheat' of some sort going on, it's sure to have an on/off switch or some other way to (dis)engage the feature. Also, it would be stupidly easy for MM to take it just a hair easy in the corners. Right?!



I might point out that with an acceleration advantage like that, MM hardly NEEDS to be on pole, does he?

Marquez always wants to win at everything. There is no way he wouldn't take pole if there was a way he could.

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C'mon, Spock, you can do better than that! He's smart enough to know not to call undue attention to himself.

Me do better? I'm still waiting for the irrefutable evidence the naysayers should be providing!! I'm giving you guys places to look, and still nothing.

For the record, I don't believe anyone ever claimed to have the PROOF you seem so infatuated with. We are simply pointing out that MM enjoys a significant mechanical advantage over his competitors. Nor are we the first peeps on Earth to raise the "Is he cheating?!" question.



My 'Spock' remark was just pointing out that your arguments attempting to defend MM have no more factual or logical basis than those coming from us 'Wild Eyed Conspiracy' maniacs.



Comparing the arguably justifiable suspicion of several PS members to the absurd claims made by the Moon Loonies, Young Earthers, and other assorted Fruit Loops is a real reach .... I'm sooooo hurt!

Just as infatuated as you are in claiming his team is cheating, or has and advantave unatainable to the rest. What mechanical advantage does he have? Something mechanical as you claim I asume to be phisical, where is it? Is tec inspection not doing their job? If the team has an advantage, it´s advantage that all the teams can atain either economicaly or by providing results. Lets quick remember that Simoncelli started 250 on the Gilera RS, he showed results and was given the RSA.





My arguments defending MM are backed by the rules of the Moto 2 series and tec inspections on the bikes following podiums. Engines are sealed, standard, rotated through teams and modifications can be made to gearing, aero, suspension, frame geo and that´s about it. You get proof of fairness every racing weekend, the mechanical evidence inspected by tec inspection.



Your argument, "look see how fast he accelerates, must have an advantage" doesn´t really cut it.

For the record, has nothing to do with MM being a fellow countryman. I felt the same way when Ianone´s bike was being questioned in Moto 2s first year.



Tec inspection is there to do a job, I trust they do it well. If you can´t trust them to do their job and I was in your position, I´d loose faith in the church and look for a new flock.

I remember seeing an interview with Ant West a few months ago. He was saying that they had got a dud engine, complained about it and was told that there was nothing that could be done and he had to live with it for all the races that it was due to be used. If there are dud engines then there are good engines and then there are great engines.



It would not be at all difficult to make sure that Marquez continuously got the "great" engines. Cue the randomly allocated BS.



In my mind there is absolutely no doubt that Marquez has a acceleration advantage that would be clearly visible as a speed advantage if he didn't sit up every time he hits the middle of the straight.



We will never know how good he is because he will spend his entire career on better equipment then all his rivals.

Mental Anarchist said:

I remember seeing an interview with Ant West a few months ago. He was saying that they had got a dud engine, complained about it and was told that there was nothing that could be done and he had to live with it for all the races that it was due to be used. If there are dud engines then there are good engines and then there are great engines.



It would not be at all difficult to make sure that Marquez continuously got the "great" engines. Cue the randomly allocated BS.



In my mind there is absolutely no doubt that Marquez has a acceleration advantage that would be clearly visible as a speed advantage if he didn't sit up every time he hits the middle of the straight.



We will never know how good he is because he will spend his entire career on better equipment then all his rivals.

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Agreed.

Mental Anarchist said:

I remember seeing an interview with Ant West a few months ago. He was saying that they had got a dud engine, complained about it and was told that there was nothing that could be done and he had to live with it for all the races that it was due to be used. If there are dud engines then there are good engines and then there are great engines.



It would not be at all difficult to make sure that Marquez continuously got the "great" engines. Cue the randomly allocated BS.



In my mind there is absolutely no doubt that Marquez has a acceleration advantage that would be clearly visible as a speed advantage if he didn't sit up every time he hits the middle of the straight.



We will never know how good he is because he will spend his entire career on better equipment then all his rivals.

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The next Rossi.

IMHO MM's "advantage" is that he and his team can get usable power from the engine to the ground more efficiently than anyone else. Set-up, chassis, and his right wrist and talent seem more probable than some grand conspiracy!

I'm of the same school of thought. It's all the 1%'s that Marquez has got dialed on the moto2 machine that differentiates between him and the also rans. What are they gonna say when he cleans up in moto1-GP. Same thing; performance advantage. Funny thing - you never see a slower rider on the fastest machine, the ride is earned , not gifted.