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2023 Austrian GP

I can't remember having watched a more boring race than this one. What I can remember is the commentators talking about tire pressure and dirty air and .... just as the commentators of F1 did, when formula 1 started to get unwatchable. I hope this does not happen to motogp although it pretty much looks like that'll be the direction things are going :(
 
Jack the stone is who he is. He isn't all that good. Binder on the other hand is the best rider on the grid. He would have won by 30 secs on the ducati.
Agreed. I was thinking today actually about how, just like in life, some riders gravitate towards being "popular" for no reason at all. Jack and Mav are two examples of this. The media thinks the sun shines out of their arse but both have been average riders at best in GP. Then the likes of Binder seem to fly under the radar.

I'm still hoping my dream team of Marc and Brad at Red Bull KTM in 2025. Ducati would have a seriously hard time on their hands with that.
 
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Agreed. I was thinking today actually about how, just like in life, some riders gravitate towards being "popular" for no reason at all. Jack and Mav are two examples of this. The media thinks the sun shines out of their arse but both have been average riders at best in GP. Then the likes of Binder seem to fly under the radar.

I'm still hoping my dream team of Marc and Brad at Red Bull KTM in 2025. Ducati would have a seriously hard time on their hands with that.
I am so tired of hearing that somehow Jack showing up at ktm as helped Binder in some way. Like he has given ktm ducatis secrets and that he is helping with Binders set up. Jack is a racer not a ....... engineer plus it would take time for Jack Oppenheimer to make developmental changes even if he was an engineer. How the hell is Jack giving Brad set up tips on a bike he has never ridden? What the ....? The fact is Brad has been getting better each year. He got his first win years before Jack and will get his last long after Jack is gone.
 
I am so tired of hearing that somehow Jack showing up at ktm as helped Binder in some way. Like he has given ktm ducatis secrets and that he is helping with Binders set up. Jack is a racer not a ....... engineer plus it would take time for Jack Oppenheimer to make developmental changes even if he was an engineer. How the hell is Jack giving Brad set up tips on a bike he has never ridden? What the ....? The fact is Brad has been getting better each year. He got his first win years before Jack and will get his last long after Jack is gone.
Not to mention KTM has been stealing Ducati engineers for years but the Anglo media make it look like it's all thanks to Miller's input. They love some self-fellatio.
 
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Haven't watched the sprint. Probably won't.
Watched the main event last night.
Pecco has that thing sorted for him now and is better on it than anyone else.
He deserved the win and yes he has one hand on the championship now.
Clean and fast which seems to be the fastest way to ride these ride height changing, aero downforce, spaceships.
They are fast but as the riders are saying, harder to overtake with.
The ability to duel closely and overtake regularly, was a key strength of the sport with respect to being exciting to watch.
Taking that away is f'n stupid imo.
 
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Agreed. I was thinking today actually about how, just like in life, some riders gravitate towards being "popular" for no reason at all. Jack and Mav are two examples of this. The media thinks the sun shines out of their arse but both have been average riders at best in GP. Then the likes of Binder seem to fly under the radar.

I'm still hoping my dream team of Marc and Brad at Red Bull KTM in 2025. Ducati would have a seriously hard time on their hands with that.

People seem to hold Binder in high regard. Brad is basically on pace to equal Jack's premier class win total, but he'll be short of Mav if Binder keeps winning at his current pace. Brad already has more career wins than Jack, and Brad has a Moto3 title like Mav, but his stats aren't particularly stellar.

Brad spent the early part of his GP career on uncompetitive equipment--that's part of his working class mystique--but he's on the 2nd best bike (imo) this season, and he's scored three podiums to tie the record for career podiums in the premier class by a South African (8).

I'm not throwing shade or try to give undue credit, but it seems that evaluating riders is an inexact science. Mav and Jack have been around forever, and haven't accomplished much in recent years. Maybe people are just getting tired of them.
 
I am so tired of hearing that somehow Jack showing up at ktm as helped Binder in some way. Like he has given ktm ducatis secrets and that he is helping with Binders set up. Jack is a racer not a ....... engineer plus it would take time for Jack Oppenheimer to make developmental changes even if he was an engineer. How the hell is Jack giving Brad set up tips on a bike he has never ridden? What the ....? The fact is Brad has been getting better each year. He got his first win years before Jack and will get his last long after Jack is gone.
Substantially true, Jack is a waste of a good factory seat on current form, and his strong one lap pace is irrelevant if he can't make the tyres last more than a few laps.

I am a big Binder fan, and he is the one likely to keep me interested in the sport if he becomes fully competitive with Bagnaia in the absence of a competitive MM. I would love to see Binder become world champion, something I have never expected with Jack, and do expect may more wins from him as opposed to none from Jack, who is unlikely to even win in the wet given how good Binder is in the wet.

Some of the rest of what what you said is not true though, Jack won both in moto 3 and the premier class before Brad, and it is in fact KTM and Binder himself who have been saying Jack has helped with the KTM bike; I share your scepticism about the latter btw, perhaps they are just being nice to a likeable guy who won't be with them long term.
 
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I am so tired of hearing that somehow Jack showing up at ktm as helped Binder in some way. Like he has given ktm ducatis secrets and that he is helping with Binders set up. Jack is a racer not a ....... engineer plus it would take time for Jack Oppenheimer to make developmental changes even if he was an engineer. How the hell is Jack giving Brad set up tips on a bike he has never ridden? What the ....? The fact is Brad has been getting better each year. He got his first win years before Jack and will get his last long after Jack is gone.
The development of the bike took a significant step forward with Miller, however the KTM is still noticeably well behind in rideability in comparison to the Ducati, only Binder can consistently ride it, he reminds me of Stoner in 2007. Binder has the chance to be world champion, just needs a bit more development improving the consistency of that KTM.
 
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I am so tired of hearing that somehow Jack showing up at ktm as helped Binder in some way. Like he has given ktm ducatis secrets and that he is helping with Binders set up. Jack is a racer not a ....... engineer plus it would take time for Jack Oppenheimer to make developmental changes even if he was an engineer. How the hell is Jack giving Brad set up tips on a bike he has never ridden? What the ....? The fact is Brad has been getting better each year. He got his first win years before Jack and will get his last long after Jack is gone.

Hear hear!!!
 
The development of the bike took a significant step forward with Miller, however the KTM is still noticeably well behind in rideability in comparison to the Ducati, only Binder can consistently ride it, he reminds me of Stoner in 2007. Binder has the chance to be world champion, just needs a bit more development improving the consistency of that KTM.
How has Jack helped? Show me an article saying so. I don't believe this at all. I don't think the ktm is any better than it was last year. The ducatis biggest strength over the other bikes is acceleration grip out of corners. Which is what Binder claimed he had none of compared to the duc this weekend.
 
People seem to hold Binder in high regard. Brad is basically on pace to equal Jack's premier class win total, but he'll be short of Mav if Binder keeps winning at his current pace. Brad already has more career wins than Jack, and Brad has a Moto3 title like Mav, but his stats aren't particularly stellar.

Brad spent the early part of his GP career on uncompetitive equipment--that's part of his working class mystique--but he's on the 2nd best bike (imo) this season, and he's scored three podiums to tie the record for career podiums in the premier class by a South African (8).

I'm not throwing shade or try to give undue credit, but it seems that evaluating riders is an inexact science. Mav and Jack have been around forever, and haven't accomplished much in recent years. Maybe people are just getting tired of them.

I personally rate the Aprilia better than the ktm. Strictly because we are seeing 3 riders with the potential of winning on it Espargaro, Mav, and Olivera. I am curious as to how you rate the ktm compaired to the Aprilia.
 
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Substantially true, Jack is a waste of a good factory seat on current form, and his strong one lap pace is irrelevant if he can't make the tyres last more than a few laps.

I am a big Binder fan, and he is the one likely to keep me interested in the sport if he becomes fully competitive with Bagnaia in the absence of a competitive MM. I would love to see Binder become world champion, something I have never expected with Jack, and do expect may more wins from him as opposed to none from Jack, who is unlikely to even win in the wet given how good Binder is in the wet.

Some of the rest of what what you said is not true though, Jack won both in moto 3 and the premier class before Brad, and it is in fact KTM and Binder himself who have been saying Jack has helped with the KTM bike; I share your scepticism about the latter btw, perhaps they are just being nice to a likeable guy who won't be with them long term.
I don't dislike Miller he is a stand up guy. I have said in the past he is the ultimate teammate. More of a wingman than your competitor. As much as thats a compliment its not a good trait in a sport where your teammate is the person you must beat.
 
People seem to hold Binder in high regard. Brad is basically on pace to equal Jack's premier class win total, but he'll be short of Mav if Binder keeps winning at his current pace. Brad already has more career wins than Jack, and Brad has a Moto3 title like Mav, but his stats aren't particularly stellar.

Brad spent the early part of his GP career on uncompetitive equipment--that's part of his working class mystique--but he's on the 2nd best bike (imo) this season, and he's scored three podiums to tie the record for career podiums in the premier class by a South African (8).

I'm not throwing shade or try to give undue credit, but it seems that evaluating riders is an inexact science. Mav and Jack have been around forever, and haven't accomplished much in recent years. Maybe people are just getting tired of them.
Mostly agree, but being on the second best bike does not necessarily allow many podiums if there are 8 guys on the best bike. I tend to think MM and maybe FQ could get better results on the KTM though.
I don't dislike Miller he is a stand up guy. I have said in the past he is the ultimate teammate. More of a wingman than your competitor. As much as thats a compliment its not a good trait in a sport where your teammate is the person you must beat.
As I said, we mostly agree as is not unusual. Jack is not and has never been championship material unfortunately, and with the welath of talent Red Bull has in the pipeline let alone the talent on substandard bikes from other manufacturers it is hard to justify him being on that bike. I tend to agree with others that the KTM is a strange bike, no one other than Binder is really prospering, and the satellite KTM has been a career killer for well performed moto 2 riders. The Aprilia may be more genrally rideable, again as others are saying. It would be interesting to see MM or FQ on either the KTM or the Aprilia..
 
Mostly agree, but being on the second best bike does not necessarily allow many podiums if there are 8 guys on the best bike. I tend to think MM and maybe FQ could get better results on the KTM though.

As I said, we mostly agree as is not unusual. Jack is not and has never been championship material unfortunately, and with the welath of talent Red Bull has in the pipeline let alone the talent on substandard bikes from other manufacturers it is hard to justify him being on that bike. I tend to agree with others that the KTM is a strange bike, no one other than Binder is really prospering, and the satellite KTM has been a career killer for well performed moto 2 riders. The Aprilia may be more genrally rideable, again as others are saying. It would be interesting to see MM or FQ on either the KTM or the Aprilia..
I think once ducati's dominance comes to an end we could see the ktm dominating. Not because of a superior bike but because of superior riders. My opinion and hope is that we see a battle between Binder and Acosta. Binder and his wild Stoner type style against Acosta's JLo smooth approach. I could be completely wrong but this is what I predict. As terrible as motogp is right now we could be on the horizon of something special.
 
It will be a long time of the Duke on top...how many of us will still be around?

I couldn't even finish this last race....
 
It will be a long time of the Duke on top...how many of us will still be around?

I couldn't even finish this last race....
It won't be a long time. When the ratings start to fall dorna will make changes that will hurt ducati. Changing the tire make up is all it takes to upset a bike and benefit a different one. Ride height and aero is all it would take to make the ducati unstable again.
 
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Just out of curiosity... how much do you think Ducati is skirting the rules?
I think rules were made to favor ducati while they were struggling which creates the ebb and flow of the sport. I am ok with that. It is prototype racing and the manufactures job is to deal with the cards they are dealt. A few years back there was a lot of talk that ducati and ktm needed a hard carcass tire to handle the load on the front. So the next season the tire carcass was harder benefitting Ktm, Ducati, and it appears also Aprilia. To me that was the beginning of the decline of both Yamaha and Honda more than anything else. So a simple change to that could possibly even things out. I absolutely hate the tire rule and wish they all could be given a tire that suits their bike.
 
People seem to hold Binder in high regard. Brad is basically on pace to equal Jack's premier class win total, but he'll be short of Mav if Binder keeps winning at his current pace. Brad already has more career wins than Jack, and Brad has a Moto3 title like Mav, but his stats aren't particularly stellar.

Brad spent the early part of his GP career on uncompetitive equipment--that's part of his working class mystique--but he's on the 2nd best bike (imo) this season, and he's scored three podiums to tie the record for career podiums in the premier class by a South African (8).

I'm not throwing shade or try to give undue credit, but it seems that evaluating riders is an inexact science. Mav and Jack have been around forever, and haven't accomplished much in recent years. Maybe people are just getting tired of them.
I hold in high regard because of his junior category record, the fact that he just gets on with it and that he has dominated every team mate he's ever had. Oliveira showed that the KTM is peaky, and Binder has managed those peaks a lot better.
How has Jack helped? Show me an article saying so. I don't believe this at all. I don't think the ktm is any better than it was last year. The ducatis biggest strength over the other bikes is acceleration grip out of corners. Which is what Binder claimed he had none of compared to the duc this weekend.
The only way I think Jack has helped is his qualifying speed has pushed Binder to improve his Q pace.
I personally rate the Aprilia better than the ktm. Strictly because we are seeing 3 riders with the potential of winning on it Espargaro, Mav, and Olivera. I am curious as to how you rate the ktm compaired to the Aprilia.
I agree, the Aprilia is the 2nd best bike out there but flattered by peaky as best, and plain overrated riders at worst. You can't win one race then be struggling to be in the top 10 for the next like Aleix. I think Miguel would thrive on the factory Aprilia but its hard to tell with the awful season he's had through no fault of his own...
 
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