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2012 Entry List

^... In the 80s and 90s the top factories ran 4 cylinders while the smaller teams ran triples and twins.. If mem serves you could BUY a factory Honda twin 500 for around $100,000 and not only race it but its yours.. Compare that to leasing a honda in 2011 for 3.5 million Euro for a few months then having to return it lol
 
So after all that blusterous posturing by Egghead, we end up with an extra row of bikes over last year.And what a row it is. Not one of them has done anything in their careers that justify being called a Moto Gp rider. But then again, the machine standards will be at national series level soon, the riders may be as well.



A: Without CRT, the field would be down to maybe, just maybe 14 bikes. Then you'd be screaming about Ezpeleta killing the series.



B: The WSBK paddock is awash with talentless no-hopers. MotoGP has always been awash with no-hopers. Go back and look at the entry lists in 2003, 2004.
 
A: Without CRT, the field would be down to maybe, just maybe 14 bikes. Then you'd be screaming about Ezpeleta killing the series.



B: The WSBK paddock is awash with talentless no-hopers. MotoGP has always been awash with no-hopers. Go back and look at the entry lists in 2003, 2004.

So those two years the title was worth nothing. Excellent, knock two off his total.
 
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A: Without CRT, the field would be down to maybe, just maybe 14 bikes. Then you'd be screaming about Ezpeleta killing the series.



B: The WSBK paddock is awash with talentless no-hopers. MotoGP has always been awash with no-hopers. Go back and look at the entry lists in 2003, 2004.

Id rather have 14 Gp bikes than what is proposed. Does anyone really give a .... what goes on outside the top 10, much less 15-21.
 
Id rather have 14 Gp bikes than what is proposed. Does anyone really give a .... what goes on outside the top 10, much less 15-21.



Guess what? Out of those 14 or so bikes, only 4 of those bikes have the capability of winning a race, much less a championship at the current state of things (who knows how the Duc will perform). Does anyone care what happens after those 4 bikes mop up race after race?
 
Id rather have 14 Gp bikes than what is proposed. Does anyone really give a .... what goes on outside the top 10, much less 15-21.



Totally agree! As it looks, Stoner is risking a few broken knuckles or fingers, and we know he has had a bad scaphoid in the past.



And thats if he doesn't go broke.
 
Why not just have 4 bikes? They're the only ones that actually matter.

As one answer for your rhetorical question, there is still a riders' championship, and while it is not uncommon that the 4 best riders end up on the four best bikes in a given year, riders grow old or lose motivation, and new talent arises. Riders on bikes that can't win can demonstrate their potential, as stoner for one did to an extent on a satellite bike in 2006. If people think there are too many spanish +/- italian riders and that factory rides are determined by nationality and sponsorship now, what would happen with only 4 bikes?



I admit to being something of a shallow nationalist as a sports fan in general, but many are like me and with no-one to support even for the future I would probably take less interest, and the same would apply to sponsors who might start on a small scale and then expand. In F1, which I don't like invoking as a parallel to motogp but seems to be what ezy aspires to in terms of the type of team involved among other things, redbull didn't start off dominating the field.



I am with povol on contrived nascar style close racing though, and to an extent also with those who think honda's apparent dominance would not be such a problem if someone else, especially one particular rider, was doing the dominating on a honda. I can't really criticise the CRT thing though with no idea of my own, or from anybody else, to otherwise address the currently financially unsustainable nature of things, whoever is at fault for the sport arriving at such a pass. If ezy is using CRT to bargain with the factories about limiting excessively expensive technology, to make them provide engines or bikes to other teams on more realistic terms, or to break the cartel which fairly effectively in practice excludes the entry of new factories now, maybe he is being really smart.
 
As one answer for your rhetorical question, there is still a riders' championship, and while it is not uncommon that the 4 best riders end up on the four best bikes in a given year, riders grow old or lose motivation, and new talent arises. Riders on bikes that can't win can demonstrate their potential, as stoner for one did to an extent on a satellite bike in 2006. If people think there are too many spanish +/- italian riders and that factory rides are determined by nationality and sponsorship now, what would happen with only 4 bikes?



I admit to being something of a shallow nationalist as a sports fan in general, but many are like me and with no-one to support even for the future I would probably take less interest, and the same would apply to sponsors who might start on a small scale and then expand. In F1, which I don't like invoking as a parallel to motogp but seems to be what ezy aspires to in terms of the type of team involved among other things, redbull didn't start off dominating the field.



I am with povol on contrived nascar style close racing though, and to an extent also with those who think honda's apparent dominance would not be such a problem if someone else, especially one particular rider, was doing the dominating on a honda. I can't really criticise the CRT thing though with no idea of my own, or from anybody else, to otherwise address the currently financially unsustainable nature of things, whoever is at fault for the sport arriving at such a pass. If ezy is using CRT to bargain with the factories about limiting excessively expensive technology, to make them provide engines or bikes to other teams on more realistic terms, or to break the cartel which fairly effectively in practice excludes the entry of new factories now, maybe he is being really smart.



The idea of CRT is to allow more riders into the class, and give them a chance to get used to riding a MotoGP bike. The problem is now that it is impossible to come into the class and do well, the bikes have become too exotic, and the tires too difficult to use. CRT should allow teams to cut their costs by half, making it easier for talented young riders to get into the class.



In 2013, the satellite bikes should be gone (with the possible exception of Marquez), meaning that although there will be no one challenging Stoner, Lorenzo and (if they get the Ducati fixed) Rossi any time soon, there will be a larger selection of riders, from a larger selection of countries, all racing, and angling for a shot on a factory MotoGP bike.



Fears of NASCAR-style interference are greatly exaggerated. Ezpeleta's idea is to have 2 bikes from each of the factories who will be fighting for the championship, with a large contingent of cheap (by MotoGP standards) bikes behind racing to be noticed, and to get a shot at a factory bike next season. Measures will be taken to keep the differences to a minimum, but nobody in the MotoGP paddock believes that by dumbing down the bikes, all of a sudden James Ellison is going to start beating Casey Stoner. The rider is still the most important part of the package, and that's not going to change for a long while.
 
The idea of CRT is to allow more riders into the class, and give them a chance to get used to riding a MotoGP bike. The problem is now that it is impossible to come into the class and do well, the bikes have become too exotic, and the tires too difficult to use. CRT should allow teams to cut their costs by half, making it easier for talented young riders to get into the class.



In 2013, the satellite bikes should be gone (with the possible exception of Marquez), meaning that although there will be no one challenging Stoner, Lorenzo and (if they get the Ducati fixed) Rossi any time soon, there will be a larger selection of riders, from a larger selection of countries, all racing, and angling for a shot on a factory MotoGP bike.



Fears of NASCAR-style interference are greatly exaggerated. Ezpeleta's idea is to have 2 bikes from each of the factories who will be fighting for the championship, with a large contingent of cheap (by MotoGP standards) bikes behind racing to be noticed, and to get a shot at a factory bike next season. Measures will be taken to keep the differences to a minimum, but nobody in the MotoGP paddock believes that by dumbing down the bikes, all of a sudden James Ellison is going to start beating Casey Stoner. The rider is still the most important part of the package, and that's not going to change for a long while.



Glad to hear that you believe that Ezpeleta still wants factory prototypes after 2013, that gives me some hope. Personally, I have no problem with letting CRT bikes race next to factory proto's (as long as they don't cause great safety hazards), but I do have a problem with the series going full CRT. Which I believe Ezy has been hinting at more than once in the past months.



On a related note: you speak of CRT as a step towards a factory ride for riders. How viable to you think it will be as a route for manufacturers to go from CRT to factory bike (by which I mean an entry that has to compete under the same rules as the Honda's, Yamaha's and Ducati's and is hopefully somewhat competitive, at least against the CRT's). Under which conditions would it be viable at all? Right now, were seeing an RSV 4 as a CRT entry, against the spirit of the rules for CRT's. What has to happen in order to make this a route for Aprilia, or others, to work towards a factory racer? How interested would factories like Aprilia, BMW or KTM be?
 
Glad to hear that you believe that Ezpeleta still wants factory prototypes after 2013, that gives me some hope. Personally, I have no problem with letting CRT bikes race next to factory proto's (as long as they don't cause great safety hazards), but I do have a problem with the series going full CRT. Which I believe Ezy has been hinting at more than once in the past months.



On a related note: you speak of CRT as a step towards a factory ride for riders. How viable to you think it will be as a route for manufacturers to go from CRT to factory bike (by which I mean an entry that has to compete under the same rules as the Honda's, Yamaha's and Ducati's and is hopefully somewhat competitive, at least against the CRT's). Under which conditions would it be viable at all? Right now, were seeing an RSV 4 as a CRT entry, against the spirit of the rules for CRT's. What has to happen in order to make this a route for Aprilia, or others, to work towards a factory racer? How interested would factories like Aprilia, BMW or KTM be?



Ezpeleta is engaged in a power play with the MSMA over the rules. He wants their input, but he wants them to be sensible about keeping costs down, threatening to go CRT is about pointing out to the factory that he now has an alternative. The CRT bikes are meant to replace satellite bikes, not the factory bikes, but Ezpeleta is saying that if he has to, he can live without the factories. What will happen is that all of the bikes will run under a single set of rules again, but the rules will be changed to make participation much cheaper.



I also think that there is a much easier entry into MotoGP now for factories. Aprilia and BMW can use the data from the CRT bikes to provide modifications to make the bikes more competitive, and could choose to enter as full factory efforts. Right now, factory involvement costs somewhere in the region of 60-75 million euros a season. If that can be cut to 10, you will see more factories entering.
 
The idea of CRT is to allow more riders into the class, and give them a chance to get used to riding a MotoGP bike. The problem is now that it is impossible to come into the class and do well, the bikes have become too exotic, and the tires too difficult to use. CRT should allow teams to cut their costs by half, making it easier for talented young riders to get into the class.



In 2013, the satellite bikes should be gone (with the possible exception of Marquez), meaning that although there will be no one challenging Stoner, Lorenzo and (if they get the Ducati fixed) Rossi any time soon, there will be a larger selection of riders, from a larger selection of countries, all racing, and angling for a shot on a factory MotoGP bike.



Fears of NASCAR-style interference are greatly exaggerated. Ezpeleta's idea is to have 2 bikes from each of the factories who will be fighting for the championship, with a large contingent of cheap (by MotoGP standards) bikes behind racing to be noticed, and to get a shot at a factory bike next season. Measures will be taken to keep the differences to a minimum, but nobody in the MotoGP paddock believes that by dumbing down the bikes, all of a sudden James Ellison is going to start beating Casey Stoner. The rider is still the most important part of the package, and that's not going to change for a long while.

Thats the whole idea of having a competition that bills itself as the pinnacle. Its an elite club of competitors who can handle the difficulties of competition at the highest level. If your truly one of the elite, you will not go unnoticed . In todays world of instant information, you will be found if your exceptional.The bike racing world is chock full of riders who claim they could or would have been one of the greats " IF".
 
Thats the whole idea of having a competition that bills itself as the pinnacle. Its an elite club of competitors who can handle the difficulties of competition at the highest level. If your truly one of the elite, you will not go unnoticed . In todays world of instant information, you will be found if your exceptional.The bike racing world is chock full of riders who claim they could or would have been one of the greats " IF".

That's the trouble, though. There's been plenty of people who have been "exceptional" in one class and not impressed much in other series. Roger Lee Hayden, James Toseland, Kenan Sofuoglu, Toni Elias, the list goes on and on. Checa and Biaggi, WSBK champs, who couldn't cut it at Grand Prix level.





The problem is that you first have to get in to MotoGP before you get a shot on a decent bike. If there's only 17 bikes, or 14, you're never going to get a shot. If there's 21 or 24, you might get a shot.



Your arguments sound like the idealized world that economists love. The rational, optimizing .... economicus has proven as elusive as the GP series you seem to be describing.
 
That's the trouble, though. There's been plenty of people who have been "exceptional" in one class and not impressed much in other series. Roger Lee Hayden, James Toseland, Kenan Sofuoglu, Toni Elias, the list goes on and on. Checa and Biaggi, WSBK champs, who couldn't cut it at Grand Prix level.





The problem is that you first have to get in to MotoGP before you get a shot on a decent bike. If there's only 17 bikes, or 14, you're never going to get a shot. If there's 21 or 24, you might get a shot.



Your arguments sound like the idealized world that economists love. The rational, optimizing .... economicus has proven as elusive as the GP series you seem to be describing.



In the real world, yeah, although far from elusive certainly not an all powerful predictor of human behavior. But we're not talking real world, were talking a sporting competition. If ever there's a social interaction in which striving towards perfect competition makes sense, I'd say this would be it (and I'm a lefty).
 

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