Ducati claimed another victim

Segfault · Mar 29, 2017

Lorenzo will be nowhere on Ducati. He does not have it what takes to ride a Ducati in anger.
Why I'm saying this?
Because I have been racing myself and know how it is.
First, talking about "changing the riding style" is B/S. For instance Casey Stoner has no riding style, he just rides every/any bike the way it needs to be ridden.
Second. When riding a bike new to you there is some break-in period for rider, true. But it takes minutes, not days or weeks! If you are not going fast after 20-30 minutes on the bike you will never go fast on that bike. Period.

Conclusion, Lorenzo moving to Ducati was another career-killing achievement, nothing less.

Keshav · Mar 29, 2017

"I signed with Ducati to finish my career here, although you never know what's going to happen in life, let alone in racing."

Lorenzo

So true...

Hollywood · Mar 29, 2017

Perhaps in the future Ducati should promote riders with Ducati experience.

Keshav · Mar 29, 2017

Hollywood said:
Perhaps in the future Ducati should promote riders with Ducati experience.

No offence Hermano - but look how long Dovi has been on the Duc. The improvement of his results while solid - haven't been commensurate with his long standing experience. This can be said for everyone who has competed on the bike - including Stoner. Stoner after all, was brilliant right from the start. His last year was not a great one, even tho they got the bike working well (relatively) enough that he could win three races in a row; and that was largely IMHO - down to his prowess as a rider.

GOAT · Mar 29, 2017

Personally can't help but wonder if Marquez will be able to work the Duc.

I also can't help but have some faith in Gigi's foresight. I'm pretty sure they didn't plonk their many millions down on a gamble. I think Jorge will be the strongest Ducati in time to come, but whether or not the Ducati will be capable of winning a championship, is another mystery altogether.

Hollywood · Mar 29, 2017

Keshav said:
No offence Hermano - but look how long Dovi has been on the Duc. The improvement of his results while solid - haven't been commensurate with his long standing experience. This can be said for everyone who has competed on the bike - including Stoner. Stoner after all, was brilliant right from the start. His last year was not a great one, even tho they got the bike working well (relatively) enough that he could win three races in a row; and that was largely IMHO - down to his prowess as a rider.

The bikes are more different from each other then people realize, and I think the teams (even Ducati) know this... before jumping to a Yamaha ride, do a test with a rider in the family, like scott reading.

MM on a ducati??? I think his riding style certainly fits the bike more then JLo's, but who is to say.

BarryMachine · Mar 29, 2017

Segfault said:
First, talking about "changing the riding style" is B/S. For instance Casey Stoner has no riding style, he just rides every/any bike the way it needs to be ridden.

This bit is very incorrect. Casey rides what is recognisable as a style often seen in australian dirt track. The bike is loose, in the zone of past traction but he plays with the balance of the bike to get it to go where it should go. It may not be a style many "get" especially the euro riders but it is most definitely a style you see on all bikes he rides. Its most definitely the style that allowed him to get the most out of the Ducati compared to other riders who just tried to get it to the "grip" point.

But it is spectacular to see someone doing it on sealed circuit as opposed to a very loose dirt circuit.

Arrabbiata1 · Mar 30, 2017

Segfault said:
Lorenzo will be nowhere on Ducati. He does not have it what takes to ride a Ducati in anger.
Why I'm saying this?
Because I have been racing myself and know how it is.

If it hadn't been for Maise8 or HarryJones08 this would very possibly be the most ludicrous assertion and glaring logical fallacy in the often cringeworthy history of this forum.

Segfault said:
First, talking about "changing the riding style" is B/S. For instance Casey Stoner has no riding style, he just rides every/any bike the way it needs to be ridden.

Refer to BMs post.

Segfault said:
Second. When riding a bike new to you there is some break-in period for rider, true. But it takes minutes, not days or weeks! If you are not going fast after 20-30 minutes on the bike you will never go fast on that bike. Period.

??????The era of the 500cc two stroke obviously passed you by or you weren't born then.

20 - 30 minutes? Period? These are prototype MotoGP machines meaning that it is constantly in flux, there are thousands of variables to consider which are mutable. Some riders switch manufacturer or come up a class and are immediately quick, others are more methodical even tentative in their approach, whilst the more unfortunate are hampered by a wrong turn in development or a factory flight of fancy. Happened to the best of them. See Rainey in 1993 and the chassis shenanigans at Yamaha.

Segfault said:
Conclusion, Lorenzo moving to Ducati was another career-killing achievement, nothing less.

No, conclusion, you are a ... of the highest order and this is a very .... post.

Back to Jorge though, Dovi does illustrate that you can run the bike long and with the changes to the Michelin carcass I do at least think that the tyres will come to him this year. He is already trying to modify his style to accommodate the bike with a more physical approach - but it is a dreadful shame that the smoothest GP rider since Lawson has traded the precise tool/weapon that he sharpened, personalised honed and wielded so successfully for a lump hammer in comparison.

Several years in the wilderness i'm afraid, whilst an escape committee orchestrated by Dorna and Yamaha may not be so forthcoming as it was for Valentino.

Dr No · Mar 30, 2017

"..this is a very .... post."
Made me lol.

michaelm · Mar 30, 2017

BarryMachine said:
This bit is very incorrect. Casey rides what is recognisable as a style often seen in australian dirt track. The bike is loose, in the zone of past traction but he plays with the balance of the bike to get it to go where it should go. It may not be a style many "get" especially the euro riders but it is most definitely a style you see on all bikes he rides. Its most definitely the style that allowed him to get the most out of the Ducati compared to other riders who just tried to get it to the "grip" point.

But it is spectacular to see someone doing it on sealed circuit as opposed to a very loose dirt circuit.

To be fair, I think he was actually praising Stoner and more or less saying what Stoner has said himself.

Stoner is on record as saying the Ducati had to be ridden as it wanted to be ridden, and also that his natural style was smoother than the one he employed on the Ducati.

To me, and I obviously haven't raced and defer to those who have, the way he rode the Ducati did owe a lot to dirt track as you say, and he still employed elements of that style when he rode the Honda for HRC.

Arrabbiata1 · Mar 30, 2017

michaelm said:
Stoner is on record as saying the Ducati had to be ridden as it wanted to be ridden, and also that his natural style was smoother than the one he employed on the Ducati.

Indeed, but the OP incorrectly stated that Stoner did not have a style. BM is entirely correct to point out that it is derived from the dirt.

I think that all the great GP riders coming from a dirt track pedigree from KRsnr to Rainey to Hayden had to temper their styles - particularly in the case of 500cc machinery, but they were still informed by their original code.

Casey was always capable of adapting. I first saw him race in the 125 British National Championship then the same year, (2001)wildcard at Donington in the wet. Obviously always comfortable with the bike moving beneath him, but he was incredibly smooth on a two stroke/sealed surface. As BM said, it was wonderful to watch him light it up on the bigger four strokes.

gui22a · Mar 30, 2017

Segfault said:
Lorenzo will be nowhere on Ducati...
Because I have been racing myself and know how it is.

Furiosa · Mar 30, 2017

I think Lorenzo is in for at least a tough season, but I'm not convinced that there's a 20 or 30 minute window to either get quicker or get off the pot. I'd hope that as the season goes, there will be highs and lows as they (the entire team, including Lorenzo) make changes, adaptions, hopefully improvements...

It's really got to be mid season before we can see for sure?

Wouldn't it be fun if the entire grid had to pull from a hat for grid position AND for the bike! haha

Not a sellable corporate proposition but it really would be fun to see.

JKant · Mar 30, 2017

Arrabbiata1 said:
Several years in the wilderness i'm afraid, whilst an escape committee orchestrated by Dorna and Yamaha may not be so forthcoming as it was for Valentino.

He could move to Suzuki. Its unlikely that Iannone is going to stop crashing it. Hopefully, they'll still be as competitive in 2019.

Lorenzo could potentially have won the championship on 2017 GSX-RR (and I don't think I could confidently say the same for Stoner, Marquez or Rossi). Pity.

Arrabbiata1 · Mar 30, 2017

JKant said:
He could move to Suzuki. Its unlikely that Iannone is going to stop crashing it. Hopefully, they'll still be as competitive in 2019.

Lorenzo could potentially have won the championship on 2017 GSX-RR (and I don't think I could confidently say the same for Stoner, Marquez or Rossi). Pity.

A very interesting thought and I'm inclined to agree with you.

michaelm · Mar 30, 2017

Arrabbiata1 said:
Indeed, but the OP incorrectly stated that Stoner did not have a style. BM is entirely correct to point out that it is derived from the dirt.

I think that all the great GP riders coming from a dirt track pedigree from KRsnr to Rainey to Hayden had to temper their styles - particularly in the case of 500cc machinery, but they were still informed by their original code.

Casey was always capable of adapting. I first saw him race in the 125 British National Championship then the same year, (2001)wildcard at Donington in the wet. Obviously always comfortable with the bike moving beneath him, but he was incredibly smooth on a two stroke/sealed surface. As BM said, it was wonderful to watch him light it up on the bigger four strokes.

Sure, but I am inclined to think the poster who may not be a native English speaker primarily meant to praise Stoner for being able to adapt rather than primarily that he had no style, which was what I came to after initially having the same reaction as you and BM.

For once I agree with a post of JKant's, when he says Lorenzo may be uniquely well suited to the current Suzuki, although I suspect it would also have suited how Rossi rode for most of his career. I have always had doubts even as a partisan that Stoner's style would suit the Yamaha.

MichaelBolton · Mar 30, 2017

Keshav · Mar 30, 2017

MichaelBolton said:

What is the date of this photo? Last I heard this fairing was shelved.

danski · Mar 30, 2017

Keshav said:
What is the date of this photo? Last I heard this fairing was shelved.

It's at the Jerez private test, this week.

birdman · Mar 30, 2017

michaelm said:
Sure, but I am inclined to think the poster who may not be a native English speaker primarily meant to praise Stoner for being able to adapt rather than primarily that he had no style, which was what I came to after initially having the same reaction as you and BM.

For once I agree with a post of JKant's, when he says Lorenzo may be uniquely well suited to the current Suzuki, although I suspect it would also have suited how Rossi rode for most of his career. I have always had doubts even as a partisan that Stoner's style would suit the Yamaha.

I think Rossi employs a style similar to Iannone braking deep to the apex which apparently doesn't suit the Suzuki.

When Iannone says he needs to brake early then let off and 'free wheel' through the corner I immediately think of Lorenzo.

I'm thoroughly confused by Ducati's infatuation with Lorenzo going as we know all the way back to 2009. I don't think they could pick a worse mis-match. Then again it appears Lorenzo was just as much in denial:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...yamaha-i-felt-like-any-other-employee-884346/

Q. How much have your feelings improved on the Ducati from the first ride in Valencia last November?
JL: In Valencia there were many different things that helped me, first of all the winglets. I had just won the last race of the season on the Yamaha. I was in a good shape, the Michelin soft tyres felt good and the layout of the track is not too demanding for braking. Everything went well.
However, I struggled a lot at Sepang, even more on the first day on track; that shocked me. Then I understood I must ride the Ducati in a different way than the M1, something I did not expect. In Australia, two or three weeks later, I started to ride again with the Yamaha style.
Every Ducati rider struggled at Phillip Island. If we did ride again at Sepang instead, we would have been closer. In Qatar everything went much better, as it's a good track for us.
Q. At this point, do you think you still need more time on the Ducati, or do you think most of the job is now on the side of the engineers?
JL:I did not expect to need such a long time to adapt to the Ducati. I though my style of setting off the throttle while braking in a sweet and smooth way would do the job. I thought I was just going to lose some corner speed but I would get it back on the straights.
Everything is actually different in every sense; under braking, in cornering and how you exit the corner, etc… We are actually now changing my position on the bike. I don't feel comfortable with the ergonomics yet.
The buttons on the handlebars, as an example, are quite different and I'm still getting used to them. It's going to be a longer process than expected, but we will improve for sure.

He thought his Yamaha style would work on a Ducati. Which Ducati was he looking at. The fixed in 80 seconds one? And after all the riders that have been on it.

Anyway the way I see it Ducati had one play and one play only. Save the cash they threw at Lorenzo. Wait for Marquez to come off contract. Throw the cash, the kitchen and the sink at Marquez and hope he bites. He is the one rider with the style that just sounds right, with the deep braking, and who knows the way the Ducati hooks up out of the corners he might actually enjoy riding the pig.

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Ducati claimed another victim

Segfault

Keshav

Hollywood

Keshav

GOAT

Hollywood

BarryMachine

Arrabbiata1

Dr No

michaelm

Arrabbiata1

gui22a

Furiosa

JKant

Arrabbiata1

michaelm

MichaelBolton

Keshav

danski

birdman

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