Why are WSBK riders not given respect?

I probably regard superbike riders lower than quite few people around here (oh look something else we can argue about), but i think one reason is, your on a motogp forum. Go to a superbike forum and listen to how Foggy was better than doohan but just didnt want to go to gp.

Anyway, i don't think that the WSBK championship is easy by any means. Especially not in terms of the competition, those guys fight pretty damn hard with each other and the racing is often close. And i think the year 2000, 01 and 02 seasons were about as good as its ever been. With honda and ducati both battling for world titles with world class riders i think Colin edwards' championships are a very impressive things.

But, grand prix racing is the premier level, a superbike is a production machine, it has much less setup parameters, it requires less precision to ride it fast and it is much more forgiving to mistakes. For that reason many riders can look incredible on a superbike and then when they ride a gp bike it seems they just aren't that good. Obviously some riders are that good, notably Colin edwards who is super smooth on a superbike. And although he isn't that successful in gp, his style transfered over very well.

I guess for me, having seen so many riders apear brilliant and then fall appart on a gp bike, i wont truly believe a rider is of gp quality untill i have seen it. In some cases i feel like poeple in superbike show potential, i think JT for example could learn to become a good grand prix rider, but in most cases, the superbike riders are not quite as good as gp guys.

It also doesn't help when so many gp reject go over to superbikes and find quite an easy life with relatively high success levels.

Troy corser and Troy Bayliss are both gp rejects, as it Niel Hodgeson

i'm not sure why the stars of WSB find Moto GP so difficult - all the recent talk of how the gap is narrowing (probably due to Bayliss' lap time at PI) is way off the mark IMO. Moto GP will always be the premiere league and will always have the best riders

there is no doubt the likes of Bayliss & Edwards can ride as hard and as fast as anyone on a superbike yet in Moto GP despite have the 'same' machinery as race winning team mates - they just aint cutting the mustard.

further more - as Bayliss proved - they could both go back to WSB and win the title pretty convincingly.

i can only assume that riding 125's & 250's makes the transition to Moto GP easier than coming from WSB - just look at Pedrosa's performance in his rookie season compared to any of the WSB guys.

PS No disrespect to the WSB guys - infact - I think WSB races are closer & more exciting to watch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Feb 22 2007, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Way off topic: Tom, do you race bikes in real life?

No, i am a student at university and can barely afford to fix my road bike at the moment. Money is not something i have much of. Are you a racer?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Feb 22 2007, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But all were form WSBK originally.

I'm speaking about GP riders who couldn't cut it and have been dumped + downgraded.

Recently there hasn't been many riders going that way, except for the struggling 250 guys you mentioned. But to compare, the world superbike rejects don't exactly go to motogp do they?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 22 2007, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, i am a student at university and can barely afford to fix my road bike at the moment. Money is not something i have much of. Are you a racer?
Recently there hasn't been many riders going that way, except for the struggling 250 guys you mentioned. But to compare, the world superbike rejects don't exactly go to motogp do they?

The WSB rejects go to the AMA

I was of the opinion that WSBK riders were a class below MotoGP riders until the final round of MotoGP last season in Valencia. I had seen Troy Bayliss rip up on his Ducati over in WSBK, but I'd also seen him flop big time in MotoGP. So, I was expecting him to be mid-rear pack in that race just because he was not used to a MotoGP bike and had pretty much sucked on them before. But WOW! He ripped just as hard on the MotoGP Duke as he did on the WSBK one!

That was all it took to change my mind. The champ of WSBK can just jump on a MotoGP bike after a long time and go right to the front confidently.

Although, I think Bayliss is somewhat of an enigma. He's just a crazily talented rider. Guys like Haga, Hodgson, and Edwards haven't come close to cutting it in MotoGP (hope I don't offend any Edwards fans )

Regardless of Valencia 2006 Colin Edwards is a better gp rider than Troy Bayliss ever has or will be

Throw the Troy Bayliss of today (not the Troy Bayliss of a few seasons ago when he was in MotoGP) on a works Yamaha and I bet he'd get better results than Colin does.

Don't think so. Bayliss isn't smooth enough. He isn't any good at riding when the bike doesn't work right, he crashes too much, he isn't that great at finind a set up, and if he fell off he's get injured becase he is old and brittle. I don't doubt he is faster than edwards, but he is a far less comlete rider, and over a season he is inferior.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 22 2007, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bayliss isn't smooth enough. He isn't any good at riding when the bike doesn't work right, he crashes too much, he isn't that great at finind a set up, and if he fell off he's get injured becase he is old and brittle. I don't doubt he is faster than edwards, but he is a far less comlete rider, and over a season he is inferior.
Uhm, he sure fooled me then last year. Maybe he won his championship using smoke and mirrors, eh?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 22 2007, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Colin Edwards is a better <u>gp</u> rider than Troy Bayliss ever has or will be
Well up to this point it seems you are wrong, since Bayliss has one MotoGP win to his name and Colin has none.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Feb 22 2007, 03:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why do people think WSBK is so easy?
Hi Phleg, I agree with you in part.

That may be because as Tom said, this is a "MotoGP--forum". But I for one don't think current MotoGP is harder or easier. Yes I think MotoGP is the pinnacle of motorcycle racing, but just narrowly. I use to be a greater fan of WSBK because felt at moments there was more parity (that means more evenly matched teams). I certainly enjoyed watching WSBK more during 2001-05. But when MotoGP was running two-strikes, especially before 2000, it sure seemed to me GP was harder than WSBK. Two-strokes were a demonic and crude form of blunt power that really required the highest talent, grit, and balls, to manage. Today, though, it seems that both WSBK and MotoGP are much more manageable, therefore, perhaps much more in par with eachother. Bayliss, for example, in my opinion, was able to ride at Valencia almost as if he was riding his 999.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 22 2007, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Uhm, he sure fooled me then last year. Maybe he won his championship using smoke and mirrors, eh?

last year Bayliss was the best rider on the best bike in his class, no doubt. BUt Edwards is better than that. And bayliss did manage to fall off and/or make mistakes in some very un-forced situations, finishing poorly for no good reason at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 22 2007, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well up to this point it seems you are wrong, since Bayliss has one MotoGP win to his name and Colin has none.

He may have won a race, but in 2004 and 2005 Edwards scored more than twice the points Bayliss did. And there is no arguing with that. Bayliss is riding better now than ever, but so is Edwards, and Bayliss' performance has not increased enough to get above the level of Edwards.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ThePhorest @ Feb 22 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Throw the Troy Bayliss of today (not the Troy Bayliss of a few seasons ago when he was in MotoGP) on a works Yamaha and I bet he'd get better results than Colin does.
Maybe, Maybe not. Who knows. I enjoyed how both of these guys mixed it up in WSBK. I think both were brilliant.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 22 2007, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Phleg, I agree with you in part.

That may be because as Tom said, this is a "MotoGP--forum". But I for one don't think current MotoGP is harder or easier. Yes I think MotoGP is the pinnacle of motorcycle racing, but just narrowly. I use to be a greater fan of WSBK because felt at moments there was more parity (that means more evenly matched teams). I certainly enjoyed watching WSBK more during 2001-05. But when MotoGP was running two-strikes, especially before 2000, it sure seemed to me GP was harder than WSBK. Two-strokes were a demonic and crude form of blunt power that really required the highest talent, grit, and balls, to manage. Today, though, it seems that both WSBK and MotoGP are much more manageable, therefore, perhaps much more in par with eachother. Bayliss, for example, in my opinion, was able to ride at Valencia almost as if he was riding his 999.

You may the Superbikes may have been closer and more exciting racing in the recent past (i don't think so), but that makes it perhaps more competative, but not at all harder. The british superbikes is competative, but no doubt it is a lower level and easier than motogp. To a lesser extent the same goes for WSBK. The four strokes may be easier to ride than the 2 strokes were, but its not like its easy or anything.

And as for Bayliss, like you said, he could ride the gp bike like it was his 999, and thats fortunate for him. If he had any troubles with setup or any need to adapt his riding then the chances are he would have ended up in the dirt or behind all the other riders. I mean it was obviously a good ride, but largely aided by cirmcumstance and the fact that the bike is the most physical to ride bike on the grid, and the package worked out great.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 22 2007, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>BUt Edwards is better than that.

Bayliss' performance has not increased enough to get above the level of Edwards.
Ok, it seems you are a bit inconsistent. In one debate you seem to underrate points earned in performance over a “span of time”, but here you point to it to make your case, and not wins. Uhm, you sound very sure that Colin is a much better rider than Bayliss, even though both took each others titles in epic battles that were won by splitting hairs and trading paint repeatedly throughout several seasons in WSBK. Both have had sub-stellar careers in MotoGP, though both have had moments of brilliance, including a chalked up win for one, and an almost win for the other. But you are adamant that one is much more better than the other? Uhm, did you ever watch WSBK during the Colin/Bayliss championships?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 23 2007, 07:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't think so. Bayliss isn't smooth enough. He isn't any good at riding when the bike doesn't work right, he crashes too much, he isn't that great at finind a set up, and if he fell off he's get injured becase he is old and brittle. I don't doubt he is faster than edwards, but he is a far less comlete rider, and over a season he is inferior.


Paging Richo to the white courtesy phone.
Paging Richo to the white courtesy phone.