Which Series Is Better?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 2 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 800s sound like .......cept the Duc...The 990s were SO much better...i remember waking up at La Guna in 05 to the sound of the RC211V... just "blipping" the throttle gave me a boner.

Funny you say that when the duc sounds like a 600 compared to the big bang engines.

More entertaining is first of all a personal taste, something can be interesting for ones and not for others, and secondly it has nothing to do with being best.

I've seen very entertaining 125cc races ... they don't have the best riders and for sure they don't have the best bikes. MotoGP might not necessarily have the best show always. but its sure has the best riders and the best bikes. So it is the BEST series.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 2 2009, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 800s sound like .......cept the Duc...The 990s were SO much better...i remember waking up at La Guna in 05 to the sound of the RC211V... just "blipping" the throttle gave me a boner.
you need to hear them screaming down the front straight at Indianapolis, that will change your mind.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 2 2009, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You and TOM should get together and make ugly ........ babies

Disappointingly peurile for someone of your age who is on occasion capable of genuine wit.

I presume given your position that if valentino rossi , whom you consider the greatest of all time (which I don't dispute) and who is particularly renowned for his ability to preserve tyres which seems to have recently been a skill more important in wsbk than motogp, joined the factory ducati team in WSBK you believe there would still be close racing for the win due to something magical intrinsic to superbikes?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 2 2009, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The sound the cube made was really something special sounded like a thunder storm. i loved that bike !
Shame it didn't go like lightening The Benneli Tornado that Peter Goddard rode in Superbike sounded great too. Stick a race system on a triple and you get that inimitable sound, all of its own.

People are talking about the 990's and how awesome they sounded, but during the first few seasons of the four strokes this certainly wasn't the case. The exhausts were restricted by some stupid ruling, and they certainly weren't on full song. In fact when Sheene turned up at Philip Island for the first season of Moto GP, he expressed his disapointment at such beautiful motorcyles being emasculated this way. I think Curve's right, that the Desmo still sounds awesome, but personally I don't think any of the 800's are markedly quieter than the 990s. (The M1 sounds pants, but that's becuase, as we all know, Rossi prefers a quiet bike, but when Biaggi and Checa rode it first it was banging burbling and spluttering on the overrun, and by 'the time Melandri rode the thing it screamed like an in line four should -none of this big bang/long bang - nonsense....I'll ignore the fact that it was completely unrideable at the time)

I was at Laguna and Doni in '06 and Casey's LCR Honda was admittedly ear splitting - other than that, I think they still sound largely as they did. The sound isn't the issue to me - it's the fact that they produce dull racing, and as I've said before the Ducati is nearly half a litre smaller than its WSB counterpart!!

It's a shame we never saw the Kwak screamer last year, but getting back to Rog's post, I don't think we'll ever <strike>see</strike> hear the likes of the cube again -it was like an artillery barrage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 3 2009, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Shame it didn't go like lightening The Benneli Tornado that Peter Goddard rode in Superbike sounded great too. Stick a race system on a triple and you get that inimitable sound, all of its own.

People are talking about the 990's and how awesome they sounded, but during the first few seasons of the four strokes this certainly wasn't the case. The exhausts were restricted by some stupid ruling, and they certainly weren't on full song. In fact when Sheene turned up at Philip Island for the first season of Moto GP, he expressed his disapointment at such beautiful motorcyles being emasculated this way. I think Curve's right, that the Desmo still sounds awesome, but personally I don't think any of the 800's are markedly quieter than the 990s. (The M1 sounds pants, but that's becuase, as we all know, Rossi prefers a quiet bike, but when Biaggi and Checa rode it first it was banging burbling and spluttering on the overrun, and by 'the time Melandri rode the thing it screamed like an in line four should -none of this big bang/long bang - nonsense....I'll ignore the fact that it was completely unrideable at the time)

I was at Laguna and Doni in '06 and Casey's LCR Honda was admittedly ear splitting - other than that, I think they still sound largely as they did. The sound isn't the issue to me - it's the fact that they produce dull racing, and as I've said before the Ducati is nearly half a litre smaller than its WSB counterpart!!

It's a shame we never saw the Kwak screamer last year, but getting back to Rog's post, I don't think we'll ever <strike>see</strike> hear the likes of the cube again -it was like an artillery barrage.
oooh i dunno mate. I remember watching Régis Laconi trying to keep the front wheel down on the donny straight. I think at the time it was by far the fastest most powerful bike on the grid but just un rideible due to its "ride by wire" throttle system. Régis Laconi described it as "on off" throttle and in no way linier.
"artillery barrage" is a good way to describe what that bike sounded like

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 3 2009, 09:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The sound isn't the issue to me - it's the fact that they produce dull racing,
As I have implied earlier in the thread I think if you put them all on top factory superbikes the results might well be pretty similar, and the potential for a sufficiently superior rider such as rossi to dominate would still exist. What rossi said last year about the electronics and the tyre technology enabling the same pace to be maintained to the end of the race and hence the likely result barring accident being apparent fairly early would seem to be true. Yamaha (george laurence's team manager) have just raised a number of cost saving measures including steel brakes, cutting the sensors allowed as well as simplifying the ecus which seem worthy of consideration. They have also mentioned reducing maximum rpm which might well save costs by prolonging engine life but also would have the desirable side effect of nobbling ducati. I still see some irony in ducati being the manufacturer to oppose the 800cc formula, but they may well agree if the death of motogp is the alternative.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 3 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>oooh i dunno mate. I remember watching Régis Laconi trying to keep the front wheel down on the donny straight. I think at the time it was by far the fastest most powerful bike on the grid but just un rideible due to its "ride by wire" throttle system. Régis Laconi described it as "on off" throttle and in no way linier.
"artillery barrage" is a good way to describe what that bike sounded like
No, you're right, it's like the problem Kawasaki have always had. they've no problem building powerful bikes - they just can't get them to go round in circles very well, (although Suzuki have been doing a great job going round in circles for the past 10 years ). It also roasted Colins nuts at Sachsenring, or was it Brno one year.

Mike, I was referring to the characteristics of the 800's. Someone on here put it brilliantly as 'mono-railing' mid corner speed being crucial - whereas the 990's with their excess of torque, generally very different power characteristics and riding styles, allowed for, shall we say, the unorthodox approach to cornering amongst some. We want to see three or four bikes barreling into a corner sideways, as opposed to the single file entry point promoted by the 800's. Yeah, I accept some of this is down to the increase in technical aids over the last two years, but the 800's supposedly require a more 250 riding style, but evidently minus the excitement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Feb 2 2009, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I keep hearing people talk about the MotoGP "spectacle", what exactly is said spectacle and why does it make MotoGP better?

The spectacle comes largely from motogp being the pinnacle of the sport. For me at least watching the best of the best riding the best bikes is exciting. As i said the entertainment value is not so obvious to the casual fan as you can't plainly see the herritage and the significance of the results like you can plainly see a close race in superbike. But the riding itself is exciting because that is as good as it gets, and the races are exciting because they are more prestigous in the greater scheme of bike racing. I feel similarly about the 800cc bikes behaviour, huge powerslides and tyre smoke might be more attractive to the less informed, but the best riders ride the best bikes in the best way possible, and are always on the limit. You can watch the way Rossi, Stoner and Pedrosa force their GP bikes around circuits on the absolute edge knowing nobody else can do that, I don't believe the same can be said of a superbike rider smoking Pirellis.

There you go Rog...

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Feb 3 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There you go Rog...

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Even tho you cant hear the bike in its total glory on youtubre clips , you can tell by how excited the spectators are in that clip

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Feb 3 2009, 01:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Disappointingly peurile for someone of your age who is on occasion capable of genuine wit.

I presume given your position that if valentino rossi , whom you consider the greatest of all time (which I don't dispute) and who is particularly renowned for his ability to preserve tyres which seems to have recently been a skill more important in wsbk than motogp, joined the factory ducati team in WSBK you believe there would still be close racing for the win due to something magical intrinsic to superbikes?

Useing big and fancy words dont make a person intelligent sister.

No what i'm saying is that i want GOOD racing with a FULL grid....is that so hard to understand...do i need to draw you a picture?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james68 @ Feb 2 2009, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you need to hear them screaming down the front straight at Indianapolis, that will change your mind.

YOU need to hear a 990 thundering down a straight and you'd STFU after you pee'd yourself

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 3 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Useing big and fancy words dont make a person intelligent sister.

No what i'm saying is that i want GOOD racing with a FULL grid....is that so hard to understand...do i need to draw you a picture?



YOU need to hear a 990 thundering down a straight and you'd STFU after you pee'd yourself
listen dip ...., i was commenting on the fact that the 800s don't sound like .... and I'm not arguing that the 990s didn't sound better, but typically the 800s are faster around the track it is what it is, if you want to go to a race just for the sound, go to a Winston cup drag race and STFU!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james68 @ Feb 3 2009, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>listen dip ...., i was commenting on the fact that the 800s don't sound like .... and I'm not arguing that the 990s didn't sound better, but typically the 800s are faster around the track it is what it is, if you want to go to a race just for the sound, go to a Winston cup drag race and STFU!
now theres some sounds to be heard

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Feb 3 2009, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No what i'm saying is that i want GOOD racing with a FULL grid....
good racing... well yes but what difference does a "full grid" make? i think that a full grid of rossi's would be great but what your talkin about just means more slow backmarkers who'll get in the way of the top guys when getting lapped. lets face it you don't need a 40 or even a 30 bike grid for the show seems to me that 20 bikes is just fine. anything below 10th place your not going to see anyway unless your at the track. its the 2 or more guys duking it out at the front is were we all want to see the action. all these back markers are just going to turn out to be dangerous. think ama grids & the ridiculously dangerous situations that came up from all the subpar machinery & riders. so imo a full grid does not mean a whole lot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Feb 3 2009, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's good to have a few "Rudroff" mobile chicanes out there. Makes life interesting.
i know.....

Which is better MotoGP or WSBK???

Neither!!!

Somebody emailed me this link.
Looks like it will be better than MotoGP 2009.
No control tyres in this series. Typical crazy Australians.

http://www.revver.com/video/958937/a-wee-bit-faster/






http://www.oroadsports.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20347

Dani Pedrosa would kill it here. Maybe its Honda's 2010 bike for him.

In general agree with Tom. He is correct in his assessment that the WSBK series is about the rider and less about the machine. And I'll bet that many of the WSBK fans are more rider oriented than machine oriented. It sounded slightly insulting the way he said it but I'm sure that wasn't the way it was intended. As I have said before you primarily like one series or the other depending on the prime factors he has listed. Of course you can like both for either reason and still be considered sane in my book. Just don't try to make them the same that is all I ask. Vive le difference!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 3 2009, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good racing... well yes but what difference does a "full grid" make? i think that a full grid of rossi's would be great but what your talkin about just means more slow backmarkers who'll get in the way of the top guys when getting lapped. lets face it you don't need a 40 or even a 30 bike grid for the show seems to me that 20 bikes is just fine. anything below 10th place your not going to see anyway unless your at the track. its the 2 or more guys duking it out at the front is were we all want to see the action. all these back markers are just going to turn out to be dangerous. think ama grids & the ridiculously dangerous situations that came up from all the subpar machinery & riders. so imo a full grid does not mean a whole lot.

.... it then lets just have 10 bikes on the grid A?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (james68 @ Feb 3 2009, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>listen dip ...., i was commenting on the fact that the 800s don't sound like .... and I'm not arguing that the 990s didn't sound better, but typically the 800s are faster around the track it is what it is, if you want to go to a race just for the sound, go to a Winston cup drag race and STFU!

dont get your g-string in a knot Nancy...humor the thought of ALL the best racers in WSBK... .
..30somthing bikes...the likes of Spies, Haga, Sykes, etc etc with the regulars of GP....Stoner on the 1200 DUC, Rossi on the R1....... .... you if that wouldnt be THE racing series.