When Wheelie Control Didn't Exist

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Would MotoGP be far more interesting now if they went back to 2-stroke engines with no electronics?

I know the manufacturers all swore that 4-strokes would help them sell bikes, but given the market is nowhere near what it was even 10 years ago, they can't reasonably make that claim anyway right?
 
Speaking of electronics, my screen is glitching, it says Arrabbiata1 posted. That can't be right.

Hoppers reaction to that is the best part.
 
Is it just me or do those guys look like they're barely moving? There is no doubt those machines took incredible talent to ride. There's no taking away that from the era.

I haven't spent 25 seconds conducting real research ( I leave that stuff to Lex) but I'd suspect todays guys are quite a bit faster, brake later, harder and are consistently at greater lean angles. All possible of course by advances in techno but nonetheless impressive in it's own right. I like both era's although admittedly the old stuff predates my fanship of the series.

Interestingly, I took my 2007 Monster to the dealership the other day and these kids were looking at it like it was some kind of ancient artifact. Air cooled, noisy and a pain in the ... to ride. I let one of them sit on it. He pulled the clutch a few times and he climbed off in real disgust. He couldn't hide his dislike. I was thoroughly amused. Bike technology is moving quickly. If today's Ducati is making over 270hp, what is the next frontier? How fast can these guys go? At what point would the tracks have to change to accommodate even faster bikes? I'm actually happy with where the series is headed particularly if we're to compare it to F1.
 
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On thing's for sure. They dont make hay like that in MotoGP anymore. Hay, lots of hay.

Q:whats up buddy
A:going over to the hay track, see some hay bikes
 
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This is great stuff.

King Kenny's final grand prix, the 1983 San Marino GP at Imola.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZydjdOyDM

Man, watching those guys taking the Tamburello at 170MPH on a 2-stroke motorcycle is a joy. The added chicane after the Variante Alta is amusing to see.

Too bad Imola sucks now because of the overreactions to one guy dying in a F1 car.
 
Also since Assen is coming up this weekend, this is only for the diehards, I don't want to hear about that they look slow ..... Anyone who says that is a little girl who if they had to ride one of those 500cc bikes in 1980 wouldn't know whether to piss or .... themselves.

1980 Dutch Grand Prix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SL0NpRfWnc

Look at how amazing Assen looked back then.

None of that safety .... that has been dumbing down motor sports for the last quarter of a century.
 
I rode a 250 2 stroke once, it was a CBR 250 crosser that I bought the motor from purely for my kart, .... me it scared the .... out of me! Total respect to the 500 guys.

Agreed JPS, at least bikes still have a reasonable danger element to them and as such the riders still ride more respectfully than the teenagers in F1 (Except MurderMarc) but the safety brigade if you bring this up will say "It;s not glorious seeing riders/drivers killed'. Sure it isn't, but the fact they were more likely to get killed back then made them much better drivers and the differences between the great and the ok was much more than it is now.

You stick any average competent guy in a Mercedes F1 car now and he would still qualify easily IMO. And with the ridiculous 60 mile runoffs they have now means that cars barely reach the endge of the track in a crash and if they do they just make sure their hair isn't unstyled and walk away. Needs to be a bit more fear back in it.
 
#22 said:
I rode a 250 2 stroke once, it was a CBR 250 crosser that I bought the motor from purely for my kart, .... me it scared the .... out of me! Total respect to the 500 guys.

QUOTE]
Agree.

A friend of mine bought an RG500 solely because everyone had LCs - (actually, like a ...., I had the RD400 to be different which also stood out from the pack, usually being a quarter of a mile behind). Mindful of this I used to coax him into lending me the gamma. I always, always covered the clutch lever.
Click to expand...
 
#22 said:
I rode a 250 2 stroke once, it was a CBR 250 crosser that I bought the motor from purely for my kart, .... me it scared the .... out of me! Total respect to the 500 guys.

Agreed JPS, at least bikes still have a reasonable danger element to them and as such the riders still ride more respectfully than the teenagers in F1 (Except MurderMarc) but the safety brigade if you bring this up will say "It;s not glorious seeing riders/drivers killed'. Sure it isn't, but the fact they were more likely to get killed back then made them much better drivers and the differences between the great and the ok was much more than it is now.

You stick any average competent guy in a Mercedes F1 car now and he would still qualify easily IMO. And with the ridiculous 60 mile runoffs they have now means that cars barely reach the endge of the track in a crash and if they do they just make sure their hair isn't unstyled and walk away. Needs to be a bit more fear back in it.
Click to expand...
... IOM TT 2015...
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
Agree.

A friend of mine bought an RG500 solely because everyone had LCs - (actually, like a ...., I had the RD400 to be different which also stood out from the pack, usually being a quarter of a mile behind). Mindful of this I used to coax him into lending me the gamma. I always, always covered the clutch lever.
Click to expand...

Balls Arrab, yours must be made of titanium. On the superkarts we ran hand clutches and I ALWAYS raced with my hand over the clutch lever after I siezed going into Edwina's chicane at Mallory one year.

Mick, I'm a huge fan or road racing. The NW200 for me is a bit more awesome than the TT because they race in packs, but still damned awesome!

P.S. Great to have you amongst others back Arrab :)
 
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#22 said:
I rode a 250 2 stroke once, it was a CBR 250 crosser that I bought the motor from purely for my kart, .... me it scared the .... out of me! Total respect to the 500 guys.

Agreed JPS, at least bikes still have a reasonable danger element to them and as such the riders still ride more respectfully than the teenagers in F1 (Except MurderMarc) but the safety brigade if you bring this up will say "It;s not glorious seeing riders/drivers killed'. Sure it isn't, but the fact they were more likely to get killed back then made them much better drivers and the differences between the great and the ok was much more than it is now.

You stick any average competent guy in a Mercedes F1 car now and he would still qualify easily IMO. And with the ridiculous 60 mile runoffs they have now means that cars barely reach the endge of the track in a crash and if they do they just make sure their hair isn't unstyled and walk away. Needs to be a bit more fear back in it.
Click to expand...

I've always said that the safety thing is a load of horseshit. Do you need some of it? Absolutely, I've got no problem with increasing runoffs only because of the speeds the guys are heading down to turns at. You have to make some adjustments based on pure speed of motorcycles.

But some of these tracks today are a joke to watch. Endless parking lot runoff areas.

That said, I agree completely about the more danger involved, the more respectful riders and drivers will be of one another. You'll always get the odd man out who thinks driving aggressively is perfectly acceptable. But when the rider gets it right in a overall more dangerous environment, it's a treat for everyone watching.

I do wonder if MurderMac would be riding a less aggressive style if he came into the series maybe 25 years ago. Or at least I'm sure some of the other riders might have beat him senseless behind the garages.
 
I think to be honest he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has 25 years ago without some serious accident that at best slowed him down and at worst left him with a career threatening injury.

No one wants to see that of course, but with increased danger brings increased reward and fewer riders pushing that little extra which makes for a great show. What makes me laugh with the overbearing nature of safety is no one makes a driver compete in motorsports, there are a hundred other jobs they could do if they wanted so don't moan.
 
#22 said:
I think to be honest he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has 25 years ago without some serious accident that at best slowed him down and at worst left him with a career threatening injury.

No one wants to see that of course, but with increased danger brings increased reward and fewer riders pushing that little extra which makes for a great show. What makes me laugh with the overbearing nature of safety is no one makes a driver compete in motorsports, there are a hundred other jobs they could do if they wanted so don't moan.
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That's a good point about the injury. On 2-strokes back then, as soon as that rear started sliding the way he does it, I'm sure he would have gotten launched into the gravel pit at Catalunya as opposed to riding in and then falling down.

I remember back in 2012, F1 ran an in-season test for all the teams at Mugello. All I could think is please god do not let F1 ever run a race there for the obvious reason Mugello would be ruined in two seconds.

That aside, Vitaly Petrov who was driving for Caterham whined to the media that the walls on the sides of the circuit were too close for his liking. I was aghast at that because it pretty much was the solidification that F1 drivers (not all) have turned into giant ......., who have become to think all risk should be eliminated.

There was an interesting tidbit I read some time back that in grand prix motorcycle racing, and F1, motorcycle racing has never had a premier class world champion rider die in an accident in the series, whereas F1 has. I don't know if there's much of a correlation that can be extrapolated, but it seems like there is some lesson to be learned perhaps. I've always thought if you're great on 2-wheels, you will be just as great on 4-wheels due to the feel required on a motorcycle. Look at John Surtees. Even Johnny Cecotto did both, albeit he didn't do all that well with Toleman.
 
The problem JPS is if you raise your extremely good and valid point, a lot of the current F1 fans call you a sadist. I hink in F1 the only premier class champions to have died have been through mainly car failure (Jim Clark, Senna, Rindt) but I see your point.

Oh ...., Petrov. I hated that guy. He was a prime example of a typical talentless .... getting into F1 because of his passport and money and they all moan about .... like that "oh the walls are too close" or "Oh the circuit is too bumpy" then they all proceeed to drive like ....... 2 year olds. Seriously, I've seen Cadet kart race have better standards than that 'pinnacle'

And again it boils down to respect. They believe they are invincible now given the car strength and circuit safety features and therefore drive like complete twats thinking they can't get hurt. Nothing brings you to your senses like a bit of pain, and most if not all bike racers respect that, and the fact that doing something silly could seriously hurt or kill another rider.

Look at Verstappen in Monaco, rammed into the back of another car because he was driving like a ..... 20 or even 10 years ago that shunt would have ended his career at least. But no he gets out and firstly blames the other driver for his own .... up, but then arrogantly proclaims he's 'not going to change his style'
 

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