What, Rossi fast in QP?! Is it Michelin, Luck, or Luca?

J4rn0 · Apr 26, 2016

I think this is among the most interesting news so far -- Rossi has been in the first row for three consecutive races. Even on pole. Has he then cured the nagging problem that has been his biggest handicap since his return to Yamaha in 2013? And how?

I was patiently waiting for someone to begin a new Michelin conspiracy thread (inevitable sooner or later

) but then thought that in fact (without any need of converting to the conspiracy cult) it is true that Michelin tires can explain part of Rossi's refound speed in Quali. Why?

Of all the current MotoGP riders, Rossi is the one who has had extensive experience with Michelin. Barring him and Pedrosa, only a two or three others (like Dovi and Lorenzo) raced on Michelin, for only one season, if I'm not forgetting someone or something. So he has an advantage there because even if different now, their DNA is the same.

Then there is another aspect: for the first time in his career, Rossi has a riding coach: Luca Cadalora. Some think that the benefit of a coach for such an experienced champion is more psychological than practical, but Luca was a really talented and fast rider, and also very technical and analytical -- much more technical than Rossi, coming from the school of Walter Villa -- so he can probably help in identifying problems and opportunities.

tps7c · Apr 26, 2016

I thought it was interesting that he said he grew up on Michelin's. So perhaps, it's completely psychological for him. Maybe there's nothing similar about these tires and the ones he rode on in the past, but the mere though of being back on a tire that Rossi was very comfortable with is enough to give him a boost in mental performance.

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 26, 2016

I said it before the start of the season. If tyre wear is an issue VR has the experience to exploit and maximize the potential . As much as a dont like the antics he's a player, and a serious contender.

The Worst · Apr 26, 2016

Bridgestones had a higher limit in max. corner speed than the current Michelins. I imagine Lorenzo's qualifying-lines type style took more advantage of this than Rossi's hard braking style. Lorenzo's pace is very sensitive to this and I think it's part of the reason his riding is less "robust", or more sensitive to weather or tyre issues than Rossi's or Marquez'.

moto vudu · Apr 26, 2016

Rossi put in a lot of work during the preseason tests. He is highly motivated and giving it his all. The tires and coach may be a psychological boost, but I think it's just hard work that has improved his qualifying. He has also been working hard on improving his speed at the start of races. He is focusing on improving his weak areas... he's really the only rider from his era that stayed motivated to keep improving and adapting.

robains · Apr 26, 2016

Considering Rossi is 10+ years older, 10-20 lbs heavier than Marquez/Lorenzo team, and much taller (I've been up close to Rossi, Marquez, Dani, Lorenzo in the paddock) and Rossi is a "giant" relative to Marquez, Dani, Lorenzo ... Dani and Marquez are tiny.

No big secret, unless the bike is "perfect", Lorenzo can't adapt.

In MotoGP the larger riders have always (no exception) had to "adapt" their riding style relative to tires and lighter/small riders. Larger riders start out with a huge disadvantage, why do you think so many of the "world champions" (other than Rossi) are tiny people?

If MotoGP are truly interested in neutralizing the field, they'll:
1. Make all the tires harder
2. Have a MIN weight rule that includes BIKE AND RIDER

Honda already rejected #2, and Lorenzo is on a campaign to reject #1. If they did, then maybe Rossi could actually eat again, if you noticed Rossi looking like skeleton man these days ... that's NOT healthy.

Keshav · Apr 26, 2016

Interesting - but DNA or not, so much has changed since the advent of the control tire, the speeds at which bikes travel, the electronics, diameter and width of tires, track surfaces, chassis construction and and a host of other variables that Michelin cant have factored in due to lack of hands on, direct observation over the course of the Bridgstone era. Moreover - they are struggling to match the quality of the Bridgstones without overnight flying in reconfigured constructions to places like Phillips Island. With all due respect, to speak of Rossi and Michelin DNA is a bit romantic.

Caladora seems a more likely candidate. Twill be interesting to see if he can maintain this level of competitiveness.

povol · Apr 26, 2016

Rossi has improved qualifying because Ducati and Suzuki dont have quasi q tires any longer. No big mystery.

Keshav · Apr 26, 2016

povol said:
Rossi has improved qualifying because Ducati and Suzuki dont have quasi q tires any longer. No big mystery.

But then, why hasn't Rossi's quali suffered same as others? His quali times have been crap since returning to Yamaha. He hates the 15 minute format.

povol · Apr 26, 2016

Keshav said:
But then, why hasn't Rossi's quali suffered same as others? His quali times have been crap since returning to Yamaha. He hates the 15 minute format.

If by others you mean Lorenzo and Marquez, Marquez has 2 poles and Lorenzo1. If Rossi gets 4-5 poles this year, you can say he has made a big improvement, but 1 pole doesnt change anything. It was a given that he was going to jump a few notches at every race when the tire situation was evened out.

Richy56 · Apr 26, 2016

robains said:
Considering Rossi is 10+ years older, 10-20 lbs heavier than Marquez/Lorenzo team, and much taller (I've been up close to Rossi, Marquez, Dani, Lorenzo in the paddock) and Rossi is a "giant" relative to Marquez, Dani, Lorenzo ... Dani and Marquez are tiny.

No big secret, unless the bike is "perfect", Lorenzo can't adapt.

In MotoGP the larger riders have always (no exception) had to "adapt" their riding style relative to tires and lighter/small riders. Larger riders start out with a huge disadvantage, why do you think so many of the "world champions" (other than Rossi) are tiny people?

If MotoGP are truly interested in neutralizing the field, they'll:
1. Make all the tires harder
2. Have a MIN weight rule that includes BIKE AND RIDER

Honda already rejected #2, and Lorenzo is on a campaign to reject #1. If they did, then maybe Rossi could actually eat again, if you noticed Rossi looking like skeleton man these days ... that's NOT healthy.

Rossi couldn't adapt his style to the Ducati, he was .... on it, end of.

Burgess told him to change his style, so he sacked him, and then changed it.

Keshav · Apr 26, 2016

povol said:
If by others you mean Lorenzo and Marquez, Marquez has 2 poles and Lorenzo1. If Rossi gets 4-5 poles this year, you can say he has made a big improvement, but 1 pole doesnt change anything. It was a given that he was going to jump a few notches at every race when the tire situation was evened out.

Actually I meant the rest of the field. It's a given that those three on going to be on the first row 90% of the time - just like they have for the last bunch of seasons. I agree re: Rossi being able to do this consistently. Said so in another post. Will be watching intently next few races to see if he can continue to produce results. I'd like to see it happen if only because it would make the season more interesting; not out of any great love for Vale. Gut feeling; this will be (barring injury or multiple mechanical DNFs) another very good year for Marquez. Funny but just now realized that I'm not particularly rooting for any particular rider. I kinda dislike all three for different reasons - but I love to watch them race.

I miss Stoner.

povol · Apr 26, 2016

robains said:
Considering Rossi is 10+ years older, 10-20 lbs heavier than Marquez/Lorenzo team, and much taller (I've been up close to Rossi, Marquez, Dani, Lorenzo in the paddock) and Rossi is a "giant" relative to Marquez, Dani, Lorenzo ... Dani and Marquez are tiny.

.

To start with, Rossi is not 10Plus years older { closer to 8 } nor is he 10 to 20 lbs heavier [ more like 2} than Lorenzo.

Gaz · Apr 26, 2016

Being fair here a little J4 (and anticipating the 'rossi hate' label from some) but 1 pole does not a season make.

I read somewhere across the weekend that this was Rossi's third pole since his return from Ducati and so if that is correct (have not checked) then I think it is to early to say that he has solved his qualifying woes of years past (that never really affected his results anyway).

That said, and as has been mentioned he has experience on Michelins, although no doubt that the tyres of 2007 when he last rode would be significantly changedas would the bikes and riding styles to those of today.

As for a riding coach - bah humbug - as for mine, Rossi would not need any coaching although if Cadalora's role is to watch the video of others, pic it apart and then translate that to VR, then possibly but I say little impact short of noticing if Rossi returns to an older way that did not work (let us also not forget that Cadalora has Michelin experience). Mind you, an interesting move and credit as it takes a lot for someone such as VR to ask for help so credit where due.

Electronics I suspect are playing a part as early comments from Rossi were far more positive than from others as he referred to them as 'a 10 year old system' (my paraphrase)

But why look for reasons and why not assume that perhaps he is just more focused and determined this year?

Lets be honest (and not wanting to rehash the old with the new members) but he finished last season poorly. On track and off it which at times is all the motivation one needs in order to get one focused on what one needs to do to achieve their aim as sometimes when you are in a sport or job for an inordinate amount of time, motivation can wane.

Sure, from here on for every time he does well there will be questions should Lorenzo do poorly given that JL is leaving, but that happens for every team and rider, but why not just enjoy that perhaps the old guy is in the right frame of motivated mind.

For me personally, the bigger news for Rossi in 2016 was his race fall as he is not someone who falls in races and whilst yes there were excuses/reasons, that showed to me that he is prepared to push harder.

tps7c · Apr 26, 2016

Gaz said:
Being fair here a little J4 (and anticipating the 'rossi hate' label from some) but 1 pole does not a season make.

I read somewhere across the weekend that this was Rossi's third pole since his return from Ducati and so if that is correct (have not checked) then I think it is to early to say that he has solved his qualifying woes of years past (that never really affected his results anyway).

That said, and as has been mentioned he has experience on Michelins, although no doubt that the tyres of 2007 when he last rode would be significantly changedas would the bikes and riding styles to those of today.

As for a riding coach - bah humbug - as for mine, Rossi would not need any coaching although if Cadalora's role is to watch the video of others, pic it apart and then translate that to VR, then possibly but I say little impact short of noticing if Rossi returns to an older way that did not work (let us also not forget that Cadalora has Michelin experience). Mind you, an interesting move and credit as it takes a lot for someone such as VR to ask for help so credit where due.

Electronics I suspect are playing a part as early comments from Rossi were far more positive than from others as he referred to them as 'a 10 year old system' (my paraphrase)

But why look for reasons and why not assume that perhaps he is just more focused and determined this year?

Lets be honest (and not wanting to rehash the old with the new members) but he finished last season poorly. On track and off it which at times is all the motivation one needs in order to get one focused on what one needs to do to achieve their aim as sometimes when you are in a sport or job for an inordinate amount of time, motivation can wane.

Sure, from here on for every time he does well there will be questions should Lorenzo do poorly given that JL is leaving, but that happens for every team and rider, but why not just enjoy that perhaps the old guy is in the right frame of motivated mind.

For me personally, the bigger news for Rossi in 2016 was his race fall as he is not someone who falls in races and whilst yes there were excuses/reasons, that showed to me that he is prepared to push harder.

Agreed. Rossi is no fool. Surely he knows that a sector of gp fans do not agree with what he did at the end of 2015. Marc made a stinging statement last year, something to the effect that Rossi needs to go out and beat JLo on the track. So maybe he took that to heart. I keep hoping to see Rossi and Marc exchange a glance on the podium, maybe a pat on the shoulder. I have no interest in seeing him patch up with JLo, however.

Gaz · Apr 26, 2016

tps7c said:
Agreed. Rossi is no fool. Surely he knows that a sector of gp fans do not agree with what he did at the end of 2015. Marc made a stinging statement last year, something to the effect that Rossi needs to go out and beat JLo on the track. So maybe he took that to heart. I keep hoping to see Rossi and Marc exchange a glance on the podium, maybe a pat on the shoulder. I have no interest in seeing him patch up with JLo, however.

Dare I say it, but a section of Rossi fans do not agree with what occurred from his side in late 2015 (some in this very forum are now or have been labelled haters and yet are VR fans - not myself before we go that way

) and I suspect that he is aware of all of that, for as you say, he is not stupid nor a fool.

I posted in another thread that I see no reason why these guys even need to get along and stand by that, but it is a poor look for ALL involved when podium handshakes or glances dispell so much obvious contempt and hatred for the other.

To me it isn't about patching up a thing for it is not necessary, but the current behaviours on the podiums are the same as the refused handshake for CS from Laguna for which he was rightly criticised (not by all, but many).

tps7c · Apr 26, 2016

Gaz said:
Dare I say it, but a section of Rossi fans do not agree with what occurred from his side in late 2015 (some in this very forum are now or have been labelled haters and yet are VR fans - not myself before we go that way ) and I suspect that he is aware of all of that, for as you say, he is not stupid nor a fool.

I posted in another thread that I see no reason why these guys even need to get along and stand by that, but it is a poor look for ALL involved when podium handshakes or glances dispell so much obvious contempt and hatred for the other.

To me it isn't about patching up a thing for it is not necessary, but the current behaviours on the podiums are the same as the refused handshake for CS from Laguna for which he was rightly criticised (not by all, but many).

I agree that it's not necessary for those guys to like each other. In some regards. it could bring tension to the season and make it even more interesting. Obviously Vale and Max never got along - certainly resulted in some interesting times. Whatever Marc's true feelings about the situation are, he sometimes still appears to be that starstruck kid when in the presence of Rossi. Those posters still may be hanging inside the bedroom closet...

#22 · Apr 26, 2016

tps7c said:
I keep hoping to see Rossi and Marc exchange a glance on the podium, maybe a pat on the shoulder. I have no interest in seeing him patch up with JLo, however.

Interesting. Why do you hope he and Marc make up but not he and Jorge?

tps7c · Apr 27, 2016

#22 said:
Interesting. Why do you hope he and Marc make up but not he and Jorge?

It's hard to say exactly, BUT, regardless of what may have transpired last year, I don't dislike Marc. Unless I've missed something, he's usually very gracious in victory or defeat, and I've never really heard him speak in a braggadocious manner. Marc doesn't make excuses for his loses, he will just explain what may have happened. Now I know some of you will disagree, but I've heard Jorge speak many times in a conceited manner about his "talents", etc. He usually comes off to me, IMO, as "sour grapes" in defeat. I'm not saying always, but quite often.

#22 · Apr 27, 2016

Thats fair enough, however other riders whom we know you like have also shown sour grapes, just saying.

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What, Rossi fast in QP?! Is it Michelin, Luck, or Luca?

J4rn0

tps7c

Barbedwirebikerr

The Worst

moto vudu

robains

Keshav

povol

Keshav

povol

Richy56

Keshav

povol

Gaz

tps7c

Gaz

tps7c

#22

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