Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 1 2010, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As is everybodies ..... but before you judge too harshly remember whether its subjective or objective ..... wins between Rossi and Stoner, since both are on premier machines of their Marques, is still neck and neck. So in that respect ...... who's to say which has more value and which is subjective and which objective
One things for sure, I know I'm in the minority ...... but meh, in the past its proved to be a succesful place to be on here
Saying that Rossi is a so-so rider puts you not in a minority, but pretty much alone in the entire motorcycling world and against tons of evidence and testimony to the contrary, by the same people (Burgess, Doohan, Stoner himself) that you invoke in support to your wishful thinking. You're still entitled to your own opinion, of course, but that's what can be called a subjective stand which seems to disregard even common sense. If any such position ever proved successful for you, I wonder how
One things for sure, I know I'm in the minority ...... but meh, in the past its proved to be a succesful place to be on here
Saying that Rossi is a so-so rider puts you not in a minority, but pretty much alone in the entire motorcycling world and against tons of evidence and testimony to the contrary, by the same people (Burgess, Doohan, Stoner himself) that you invoke in support to your wishful thinking. You're still entitled to your own opinion, of course, but that's what can be called a subjective stand which seems to disregard even common sense. If any such position ever proved successful for you, I wonder how
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 1 2010, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you'll need a bigger can to get rid of Barry and chimp
You boppers will never get rid of me
Sooking again
The only can around here is the can of worms that you boppers have opened
:rolleyes
Chimp? The monkey is you Talpa
- I'd rather speak to your organ grinder Roger
Rossi is an average rider, who can't even slide a bike
I was busy backing it in in the womb
I counted a thousand slides during the last weeks riding alone
- all with done ease on my 749s buttercup
Whenever I shut the throttle and position my body properly I ejaculate in my pants
Or is that when I pretend to be Casey?
Blah blah me, me, me, ........, ...........rantings of a senile old fool etc etc
...., gotta go I'm exceeding my emotion count!!
Sooking again
Chimp? The monkey is you Talpa
Rossi is an average rider, who can't even slide a bike
I counted a thousand slides during the last weeks riding alone
Blah blah me, me, me, ........, ...........rantings of a senile old fool etc etc
...., gotta go I'm exceeding my emotion count!!
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 1 2010, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Saying that Rossi is a so-so rider puts you not in a minority...
Understatement. There is not even one "so-so" rider in all of GP & WSBK (any class), much less the guy who has been winning a string of titles for the current and previous decade. That's a bit like saying Tiger Woods is a "so-so" golfer or Michael Jordan was a "so-so" basketball player. It really doesn't warrant a response, yet, here we are. Not sure what's happened to BM lately, as he use to periodically and on rare occasion, have something decent to say. I don't have much reason to exchange with him, since it seems he's raised his game to the level of the typical person (with some exception) that would oppose his debates (if you get what I mean).
Understatement. There is not even one "so-so" rider in all of GP & WSBK (any class), much less the guy who has been winning a string of titles for the current and previous decade. That's a bit like saying Tiger Woods is a "so-so" golfer or Michael Jordan was a "so-so" basketball player. It really doesn't warrant a response, yet, here we are. Not sure what's happened to BM lately, as he use to periodically and on rare occasion, have something decent to say. I don't have much reason to exchange with him, since it seems he's raised his game to the level of the typical person (with some exception) that would oppose his debates (if you get what I mean).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 2 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
You boppers will never get rid of me
Sooking again
The only can around here is the can of worms that you boppers have opened
:rolleyes
Chimp? The monkey is you Talpa
- I'd rather speak to your organ grinder Roger
Rossi is an average rider, who can't even slide a bike
I was busy backing it in in the womb
I counted a thousand slides during the last weeks riding alone
- all with done ease on my 749s buttercup
Whenever I shut the throttle and position my body properly I ejaculate in my pants
Or is that when I pretend to be Casey?
Blah blah me, me, me, ........, ...........rantings of a senile old fool etc etc
...., gotta go I'm exceeding my emotion count!!
Sooking again
Chimp? The monkey is you Talpa
Rossi is an average rider, who can't even slide a bike
I counted a thousand slides during the last weeks riding alone
Blah blah me, me, me, ........, ...........rantings of a senile old fool etc etc
...., gotta go I'm exceeding my emotion count!!
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 1 2010, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I ejaculate in my pants
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 2 2010, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
You boppers will never get rid of me
Sooking again
The only can around here is the can of worms that you boppers have opened
:rolleyes
Chimp? The monkey is you Talpa
- I'd rather speak to your organ grinder Roger
Rossi is an average rider, who can't even slide a bike
I was busy backing it in in the womb
I counted a thousand slides during the last weeks riding alone
- all with done ease on my 749s buttercup
Whenever I shut the throttle and position my body properly I ejaculate in my pants
Or is that when I pretend to be Casey?
Blah blah me, me, me, ........, ...........rantings of a senile old fool etc etc
...., gotta go I'm exceeding my emotion count!!
Classic!!!
Sooking again
Chimp? The monkey is you Talpa
Rossi is an average rider, who can't even slide a bike
I counted a thousand slides during the last weeks riding alone
Blah blah me, me, me, ........, ...........rantings of a senile old fool etc etc
...., gotta go I'm exceeding my emotion count!!
Classic!!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Apr 2 2010, 06:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
Troll spray
you'll need a bigger can to get rid of Barry and chimp
"chimp...ahhh..uuuummm...a da errr chimp...errr chimp" so so clever BB
Troll spray
you'll need a bigger can to get rid of Barry and chimp
"chimp...ahhh..uuuummm...a da errr chimp...errr chimp" so so clever BB
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 31 2010, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wasn't that about when Burgess came out with the now famous 80/20? Just proves he were right. Remember, the result lists where packed with hondas right behind Rossi so they were almost right.
I disagree, not on any bike, we all have likes and dislikes and I have no problem to see how some riders can find certain bikes impossible. Riding has to much to do with feelings for them to be ignored and if it doesn't feel right you can never go fast.
Melandri couldn't handle it and there is no reason to think that also Rossi could feel the same thing, the huge difference is that he wouldn't go to Ducati without full control over the development. Not that I think it will ever happen though.
Except from that we agree, I aslo think he would eventually win, unless he became too old in the process and in there you find the reason why Ducati is nothing more than a threat he does not intend to go through with.
Not on any bike, but let's talk about this suzuki, nobody does any special thing with it, but i wont hesitate that the top 4 riders will score more podiums and surely a few wins on it, than their current riders. we have every year races that the top riders + their bikes have a problem, and at that moment, a good rider on that suzuki can score good, but i know it's impossible to win a championship that way.
of cource what i said goes for the learning and finding the ways to make the bike more to their style before they go for a championship.
I really dont think that suzuki is this bad.
in case of Melandry, he gave up very soon, (or maybe his style didn't fit that bike), Loris won a race on it in his worst year, Hayden didn't have a good start ieder, but he has learnt to ride it now,(i, dont know if that's because of the new duc or because of him, or a bit of both).
But i understand your point too.
I disagree, not on any bike, we all have likes and dislikes and I have no problem to see how some riders can find certain bikes impossible. Riding has to much to do with feelings for them to be ignored and if it doesn't feel right you can never go fast.
Melandri couldn't handle it and there is no reason to think that also Rossi could feel the same thing, the huge difference is that he wouldn't go to Ducati without full control over the development. Not that I think it will ever happen though.
Except from that we agree, I aslo think he would eventually win, unless he became too old in the process and in there you find the reason why Ducati is nothing more than a threat he does not intend to go through with.
Not on any bike, but let's talk about this suzuki, nobody does any special thing with it, but i wont hesitate that the top 4 riders will score more podiums and surely a few wins on it, than their current riders. we have every year races that the top riders + their bikes have a problem, and at that moment, a good rider on that suzuki can score good, but i know it's impossible to win a championship that way.
of cource what i said goes for the learning and finding the ways to make the bike more to their style before they go for a championship.
I really dont think that suzuki is this bad.
in case of Melandry, he gave up very soon, (or maybe his style didn't fit that bike), Loris won a race on it in his worst year, Hayden didn't have a good start ieder, but he has learnt to ride it now,(i, dont know if that's because of the new duc or because of him, or a bit of both).
But i understand your point too.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 1 2010, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think its just that the rider and his immediate team make the bulk of the difference in results. The rider of course plays a large role, but so does his team who have to communicate with him and get the best from the package they have. Rossi didn't just take his riding skills, but also the best team in the paddock when he went to Yamaha and although they no doubt improved the bike, Carlos Checa on the other side of the garage had an almost identical season in 04 to his 03 effort. I think the bike didn't get THAT much better until the 05 season.
I dont say Rossi does all on his own, but all riders have a team, and at the same time not everybody who works with JB could become a champion, if that's the case, why did day lose 2 world championships in 06,07 years?
to say JB was the big reason for Rossi becoming the champ in 2004, is something i can't believe.
every bike is drawn and made from a few years before, so what could JB have done to make it a championship material, even if we could all see that it wasn't as great as Honda.
I dont say Rossi does all on his own, but all riders have a team, and at the same time not everybody who works with JB could become a champion, if that's the case, why did day lose 2 world championships in 06,07 years?
to say JB was the big reason for Rossi becoming the champ in 2004, is something i can't believe.
every bike is drawn and made from a few years before, so what could JB have done to make it a championship material, even if we could all see that it wasn't as great as Honda.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 1 2010, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Michael I fully understand what you are saying about Rossi, its just that I have never seen, in his style/technique of riding, anything that puts him so far in front of most others in GP. I know what you say, but I find him somewhat so-so to watch.
Years haven't changed this, indeed his early years in MGP saw me swing preference toward the Edwards/Bayliss antics in SBK. there was just riding skills there, just damn good riding.
I would see MGP and see Rossi and Biaggi having a cat fight in the stair well .... I thought well "meh I'd rather see the ride not the bitching". I know some folk here think thats fun but for me it was not what I liked in MGP.
People say Rossi likes to battle thats why we never see him run huge margins like Stoner. But I see it a different way nowadays, I see that as merely confirmation of his great "drive" to win being paramount and why I don't think his riding style and technique stand out.
Rossi has his "drive" to win. And winning by a smaller but safer margin is still winning. But it does show a definite wariness on his own technical abilities as a rider. If his limits was his focus, and had more faith in them, he would throw more caution to the wind and take off.
Stoner being a technical skills rider has himself, and his limit mainly as the oponent and hence focus. I believe Duc, Stoner have fathomed this about Rossi too, as many of Stoners latter wins were not so run away, and indeed he would even seem to be playing with the guy in second up until the last few laps when he would pull away. eg. PI 09. And I believe Rossi knows this about Stoner too, and we saw rounds like Laguna 08 where Rossi used his drive to its ultimate to stop what he knew was going to be perhaps the most technical ride MGP ever saw, but we also saw Stoner decide to then get out and hold a safe margin quite well thereafter. As it is we now only have rides like Laguna 07 and PI 09 ( though I think Stoner was playing it safe ) of late
Part of Stoners ability is the effort it is taking to control the Ducati ....... thats the very technical bit to watch, Rossi never has that trouble ..... ever, this is where JB comes in, but unfortunately I think the Yam is so "safe" a ride that I see Rossi as so-so.
You can tell me all you like what I should be liking in riders but the fact is I will always have this thing about seeing a great ride. Usually to me these are seen on those "runaway wins" and rarely in what folk term as "battles".
Rossi PI 2003. 3 second lead over Capirossi at the point his lap board told of the 10 sec penalty extended to over 15 seconds. Why risk making a mistake if you can win at 8/10ths or whatever.
Whilst I agree that Stoner is an exciting rider to watch I find it hard to believe that you genuinely find Rossi's skill & technique "so-so". Watching his Q laps live at Sepang last year was very impressive, especially his braking into the final hairpin.
Rossi is a consummate rider who likes to use the whole of the track, so his preferred technique is very smooth and he develops the bike to be good for that style. Stoner seems to not care how much the bike is bucking and weaving, he just gets on with riding it fast. Who's to say which is better?
As others have said, you are entitled to your viewpoint, but to say that Rossi is a so-so rider made to look good by Burgess is disingenuous at the very least.
Years haven't changed this, indeed his early years in MGP saw me swing preference toward the Edwards/Bayliss antics in SBK. there was just riding skills there, just damn good riding.
I would see MGP and see Rossi and Biaggi having a cat fight in the stair well .... I thought well "meh I'd rather see the ride not the bitching". I know some folk here think thats fun but for me it was not what I liked in MGP.
People say Rossi likes to battle thats why we never see him run huge margins like Stoner. But I see it a different way nowadays, I see that as merely confirmation of his great "drive" to win being paramount and why I don't think his riding style and technique stand out.
Rossi has his "drive" to win. And winning by a smaller but safer margin is still winning. But it does show a definite wariness on his own technical abilities as a rider. If his limits was his focus, and had more faith in them, he would throw more caution to the wind and take off.
Stoner being a technical skills rider has himself, and his limit mainly as the oponent and hence focus. I believe Duc, Stoner have fathomed this about Rossi too, as many of Stoners latter wins were not so run away, and indeed he would even seem to be playing with the guy in second up until the last few laps when he would pull away. eg. PI 09. And I believe Rossi knows this about Stoner too, and we saw rounds like Laguna 08 where Rossi used his drive to its ultimate to stop what he knew was going to be perhaps the most technical ride MGP ever saw, but we also saw Stoner decide to then get out and hold a safe margin quite well thereafter. As it is we now only have rides like Laguna 07 and PI 09 ( though I think Stoner was playing it safe ) of late
You can tell me all you like what I should be liking in riders but the fact is I will always have this thing about seeing a great ride. Usually to me these are seen on those "runaway wins" and rarely in what folk term as "battles".
Rossi PI 2003. 3 second lead over Capirossi at the point his lap board told of the 10 sec penalty extended to over 15 seconds. Why risk making a mistake if you can win at 8/10ths or whatever.
Whilst I agree that Stoner is an exciting rider to watch I find it hard to believe that you genuinely find Rossi's skill & technique "so-so". Watching his Q laps live at Sepang last year was very impressive, especially his braking into the final hairpin.
Rossi is a consummate rider who likes to use the whole of the track, so his preferred technique is very smooth and he develops the bike to be good for that style. Stoner seems to not care how much the bike is bucking and weaving, he just gets on with riding it fast. Who's to say which is better?
As others have said, you are entitled to your viewpoint, but to say that Rossi is a so-so rider made to look good by Burgess is disingenuous at the very least.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
Gee!!! I go away for a short while and I come back and expect this thread to be in the teens!!! bit of a let down there guys
And Arab, I see you are back!! I was beginning to wonder if maybe you did really use your back brake to slide you bike!!
Thanks for the compliments though even a thousand a day is too much for even me
"Buttercup" would have been a great name for the Duc. too
You really need a ride girl
oh and love the new picture looks very familliar
You can add a few more slides to my count too!! no "kids skids though" actually lost my rear brake too at one point!! Definitely no kids skids then.
Get this, it died cos the litle scavenge hole was clogged fro gunk from lack of use!!
Well chuck a spatty a me anyway .....
The only guy in the world who finds Rossi's riding boring
And Arab, I see you are back!! I was beginning to wonder if maybe you did really use your back brake to slide you bike!!
"Buttercup" would have been a great name for the Duc. too
You really need a ride girl
You can add a few more slides to my count too!! no "kids skids though" actually lost my rear brake too at one point!! Definitely no kids skids then.
Well chuck a spatty a me anyway .....
The only guy in the world who finds Rossi's riding boring
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 12 2009, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just posted a whole heap of facts there for you ..... and because you are too lazy to read it ..... you say I am bullshitting .....
Read ..... buttercup ....... read!
Also, this is a bit rich, coming from someone who steadfastly on this forum has dismissed and refused to acknowledge the representation of any evidence which runs counter to his own contentions.
Read ..... buttercup ....... read!
Also, this is a bit rich, coming from someone who steadfastly on this forum has dismissed and refused to acknowledge the representation of any evidence which runs counter to his own contentions.
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 4 2010, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Also, this is a bit rich, coming from someone who steadfastly on this forum has dismissed and refused to acknowledge the representation of any evidence which runs counter to his own contentions.
Do you mean like the video evidence you wrongy interpreted ?
Yes I do refuse to acknowledge your interpretations were correct, as I believe they were not
Do you mean like the video evidence you wrongy interpreted ?
Yes I do refuse to acknowledge your interpretations were correct, as I believe they were not
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 3 2010, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you mean like the video evidence you wrongy interpreted ?
Yes I do refuse to acknowledge your interpretations were correct, as I believe they were not
No, not really - although you asked for evidence that Nicky ran a 255mm rear disc which I provided and instead of acknowledging this you simply ignored it. You also failed to provide an explanation for Toni Elias's infamous hinge like backing manoeuvers at Estoril '06 - completely ignoring a still of him entering Turn 1 under heavy braking almost perpendicular to the Rossi and KRjnr. As for the first video I provided you can actually see the smoke and hear the squeal from the rear wheel locking up on the downshift and with the assistance of the back brake -a crude example, but deliberately chosen for this reason to illustrate an otherwise subtle point which owing to your limited cognitive capacity you are incapable of processing. Go back and look and read the comments on You Tube itself. You refuse to acknowledge that my interpretations are correct which is your prerogative, you are of course entitled to you own opinion. But in the face of being proved wrong you provide no explanation yourself for what is causing the bike to slide and the rear tyre to smoke slowing on the approach and simply twist the argument towards powerslides being 'real mans' slides, when in actual they have nothing whatsoever to do with the clip concerned. What mechanism used to cause Schwantz or currently a rider like BBoz to produce this snakelike weave on the approach to a corner, and what is your explanation for the first video than Barry?
I'll say again Barry, the original crux of our debate was not powersliding and the application of the throttle - it was the fact that you claim to slide your 749s with ease when slowing for corners (note, not at the apex or the exit - but the approach), merely by closing the throttle and positioning your body. On the approach to a corner most slides are the result of the downshift, and in the case of Toni at Estoril, more than a touch of rear brake...hence backing it in. If not to initiate the slide, the back brake is often used by selectively by some riders as a stabilising tool or simply to scrub excess speed. Because you are incapable of understanding this you resort to a barrage of 'kids skids' references - and return to powerslides, even when GS provided a clip of Rossi doing exactly this on an R1.
Actually I wasn't referring to me or that or hose videos. It was in reference to the traction control thread which descended into the legendary gyro debacle. Mick D, Big Al, Rog, Babel, Andy Roo, Chockmoose amongst others - all consistently demonstrating greater knowledge than yourself, went to painstaking lengths to provide links and technical information in support of their claims. Finally, you even took exception with Yamaka, somebody: /a/ infinitely more intelligent than yourself, and /b/ who speaks from within the industry, and you still wouldn't accept that you were wrong.
That's my main issue with you Barry. Yes I accept you are at liberty to disagree, but you never give credence to the opinion of others if it is contrary to your own, (usually resorting to branding the member a 'bopper') and you never admit you are wrong or are even prepared to meet halfway. To that avail, very simply, do you accept that 'backing a bike in' is a completely different process to 'powersliding'? If so, then for the grace and sanity of all the other users of this fine forum, let's just agree to leave it at that.
Yes I do refuse to acknowledge your interpretations were correct, as I believe they were not
No, not really - although you asked for evidence that Nicky ran a 255mm rear disc which I provided and instead of acknowledging this you simply ignored it. You also failed to provide an explanation for Toni Elias's infamous hinge like backing manoeuvers at Estoril '06 - completely ignoring a still of him entering Turn 1 under heavy braking almost perpendicular to the Rossi and KRjnr. As for the first video I provided you can actually see the smoke and hear the squeal from the rear wheel locking up on the downshift and with the assistance of the back brake -a crude example, but deliberately chosen for this reason to illustrate an otherwise subtle point which owing to your limited cognitive capacity you are incapable of processing. Go back and look and read the comments on You Tube itself. You refuse to acknowledge that my interpretations are correct which is your prerogative, you are of course entitled to you own opinion. But in the face of being proved wrong you provide no explanation yourself for what is causing the bike to slide and the rear tyre to smoke slowing on the approach and simply twist the argument towards powerslides being 'real mans' slides, when in actual they have nothing whatsoever to do with the clip concerned. What mechanism used to cause Schwantz or currently a rider like BBoz to produce this snakelike weave on the approach to a corner, and what is your explanation for the first video than Barry?
I'll say again Barry, the original crux of our debate was not powersliding and the application of the throttle - it was the fact that you claim to slide your 749s with ease when slowing for corners (note, not at the apex or the exit - but the approach), merely by closing the throttle and positioning your body. On the approach to a corner most slides are the result of the downshift, and in the case of Toni at Estoril, more than a touch of rear brake...hence backing it in. If not to initiate the slide, the back brake is often used by selectively by some riders as a stabilising tool or simply to scrub excess speed. Because you are incapable of understanding this you resort to a barrage of 'kids skids' references - and return to powerslides, even when GS provided a clip of Rossi doing exactly this on an R1.
Actually I wasn't referring to me or that or hose videos. It was in reference to the traction control thread which descended into the legendary gyro debacle. Mick D, Big Al, Rog, Babel, Andy Roo, Chockmoose amongst others - all consistently demonstrating greater knowledge than yourself, went to painstaking lengths to provide links and technical information in support of their claims. Finally, you even took exception with Yamaka, somebody: /a/ infinitely more intelligent than yourself, and /b/ who speaks from within the industry, and you still wouldn't accept that you were wrong.
That's my main issue with you Barry. Yes I accept you are at liberty to disagree, but you never give credence to the opinion of others if it is contrary to your own, (usually resorting to branding the member a 'bopper') and you never admit you are wrong or are even prepared to meet halfway. To that avail, very simply, do you accept that 'backing a bike in' is a completely different process to 'powersliding'? If so, then for the grace and sanity of all the other users of this fine forum, let's just agree to leave it at that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 29 2010, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is why he NEEDS JB.
Without JB and crew he would just have been another rider.He went to great lengths to get them to go to Yam with him, and in fact would not go without them ....... its pretty obvious why, and who does the "bike developing"
JB has developed all the great bikes since he has been in MGP. Just count them then tell me Rossi develops the bike
Rossi is just able to keep JB, thats Rossi's greatest asset/talent.
By this logic, Mick Doohan was just a so-so rider who was lucky to have JB around.
Without JB and crew he would just have been another rider.He went to great lengths to get them to go to Yam with him, and in fact would not go without them ....... its pretty obvious why, and who does the "bike developing"
JB has developed all the great bikes since he has been in MGP. Just count them then tell me Rossi develops the bike
By this logic, Mick Doohan was just a so-so rider who was lucky to have JB around.
