weight limit

lil red rocket pilot · Apr 20, 2011

If this is correct then surley the way forward would be a fuel load directly linked to a riders weight so the heavier riders have that little bit more fuel to offset them having to run on a leaner fuel map.

stiefel · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
So, explain why there is no direct quote from Rossi on this issue?

Normally he's not shy about what he thinks.

Because it's not in his interest to be openly vocal about it perhaps? Going through the Safety Commission is not the obvious route to go for what is not a safety issue. Let's assume for a moment the issue was pushed by Rossi, why would he choose this way?

J4rn0 said:
Fact is, he's not on record at all on this subject. Wonder why? Maybe Uncini is right, and those who are ridiculous are those who lie in ambush ready to jump on anything that can be used against the hated #46.

No, I don't wonder why, if he'd came straight out about it a lot of people would (rightly) be crying foul.

As for Uncini's comments, I stated my opinion a few posts above: sounds to me like a politician selling .........

Why is it ridiculous to be critical of such things? I don't get that.

J4rn0 said:
This is the kind of stuff that is used to make easy and useless headlines -- if they write that something was said by Mr. Squiggle, for example, nobody could care less; but if they write that "word is" it was Rossi saying it, then the big headlines are guaranteed. At no risk, because "word is" is a safe enough formula for journalists...

But it's not just a "word is" somewhere. Stoner plainly said it as well, and he's a member of the commission in question. I'd say that holds some weight.

J4rn0 · Apr 20, 2011

bigbang said:
is it sure that Simoncelli has to run a lean map because he is bigger? he seems to have an aggresive ridding style.

The maps adjust automatically during the race according to the computer estimate of the fuel needed to reach the finish line, and it is a fact that Sic has trouble being as fast in the second half of the race. The aggressive riding style can be a factor, but there are others who ride as aggressively. The fact that he weighs 77 kilos is certainly more important. Needless, to say, changing the rules because some riders are heavier or lighter than others is a silly idea, especially in a category where bikes have 240 bhp. My advice to him is to go on a diet and cut some hair!

...and one more liter of fuel for all, would equalize the situation in the easiest way.

Kropotkin · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
So who raised the initial question?

One of the Italian journalists (caveat emptor) spoke to Simoncelli, and Simoncelli told him it had come up. That journalist (sadly, I wasn't paying close enough attention during the Italian-language debriefs to notice) then started asking everyone about it, and so they got quotes from all the riders. As I understand it (but this is mainly journo gossip) it was Rossi and Simoncelli who brought it up in the Safety Commission.

J4rn0 said:
So, explain why there is no direct quote from Rossi on this issue? Normally he's not shy about what he thinks. Fact is, he's not on record at all on this subject.

He is, it's just that his statements on the issue were so bland that nobody bothered posting them. I have audio of him which I haven't transcribed, but it was mainly "yes lighter riders have an advantage in some points, no, I'm not sure what we can do about it." Stoner was much more quotable on the issue ("This why I don't go to the Safety Commission any more. They only listen to certain people, and they don't talk about safety. What's the weight issue got to do with safety?") hence his quotes appeared in all the publications.

I should also add that journalists tend to goad Stoner into making comments, because he provides such fantastic quotes. If you can get him when he's annoyed about something, and send him off on a subject (whether related or not) you've got your headline quotes for the weekend. It's fast and easy journalism. Rossi understands the way the press works much better, and is much more selective in providing a juicy quote, choosing his time and place more carefully.

stiefel · Apr 20, 2011

Kropotkin said:
One of the Italian journalists (caveat emptor) spoke to Simoncelli, and Simoncelli told him it had come up. That journalist (sadly, I wasn't paying close enough attention during the Italian-language debriefs to notice) then started asking everyone about it, and so they got quotes from all the riders. As I understand it (but this is mainly journo gossip) it was Rossi and Simoncelli who brought it up in the Safety Commission.

He is, it's just that his statements on the issue were so bland that nobody bothered posting them. I have audio of him which I haven't transcribed, but it was mainly "yes lighter riders have an advantage in some points, no, I'm not sure what we can do about it." Stoner was much more quotable on the issue ("This why I don't go to the Safety Commission any more. They only listen to certain people, and they don't talk about safety. What's the weight issue got to do with safety?") hence his quotes appeared in all the publications.

I should also add that journalists tend to goad Stoner into making comments, because he provides such fantastic quotes. If you can get him when he's annoyed about something, and send him off on a subject (whether related or not) you've got your headline quotes for the weekend. It's fast and easy journalism. Rossi understands the way the press works much better, and is much more selective in providing a juicy quote, choosing his time and place more carefully.

...Wait, what? Does this mean Simonchelli is now a member of the safety commission?

Thanks for the insights Kropo!

J4rn0 · Apr 20, 2011

stiefel said:
Because it's not in his interest to be openly vocal about it perhaps? Going through the Safety Commission is not the obvious route to go for what is not a safety issue. Let's assume for a moment the issue was pushed by Rossi, why would he choose this way?

No, I don't wonder why, if he'd came straight out about it a lot of people would (rightly) be crying foul.

As for Uncini's comments, I stated my opinion a few posts above: sounds to me like a politician selling .........

Why is it ridiculous to be critical of such things? I don't get that.

But it's not just a "word is" somewhere. Stoner plainly said it as well, and he's a member of the commission in question. I'd say that holds some weight.

Uncini said that they talked about it in the Commission as a corollary to the weight of the inboard cameras, but it wasn't serious. So maybe Stoner did not get the humor (which would not be surprising, even assuming Stoner and Rossi really understand what the other says). And Uncini denies the issue is on the table, which should be enough to dismiss this speculation until further notice.

bigbang · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
The aggressive riding style can be a factor, but there are others who ride as aggressively. The fact that he weighs 77 kilos is certainly more important.

Just how do you know that? Have you seen a study or what? If a rider is aggressive on the throttle then the TC kicks in often and fuel consumption increases. Another thing to consider is that heavier riders can put on weight and the rear wheel which makes it spin less and there is less need for TC.

J4rn0 · Apr 20, 2011

stiefel said:
Because it's not in his interest to be openly vocal about it perhaps? Going through the Safety Commission is not the obvious route to go for what is not a safety issue. Let's assume for a moment the issue was pushed by Rossi, why would he choose this way?

No, I don't wonder why, if he'd came straight out about it a lot of people would (rightly) be crying foul.

As for Uncini's comments, I stated my opinion a few posts above: sounds to me like a politician selling .........

Why is it ridiculous to be critical of such things? I don't get that.

But it's not just a "word is" somewhere. Stoner plainly said it as well, and he's a member of the commission in question. I'd say that holds some weight.

Uncini said that they talked about it in the Commission as a corollary to the weight of the inboard cameras, but it wasn't serious. So maybe Stoner did not get the humor (which would not be surprising, even assuming Stoner and Rossi really understand what each other says). And Uncini denies the issue is on the table, which should be enough to dismiss this speculation until further notice.

Thanks Krop for the nice insight. What you say figures.

J4rn0 · Apr 20, 2011

bigbang said:
Just how do you know that? Have you seen a study or what? If a rider is aggressive on the throttle then the TC kicks in often and fuel consumption increases. Another thing to consider is that heavier riders can put on weight and the rear wheel which makes it spin less and there is less need for TC.

That's my educated guess. Feel free to guess differently

Kropotkin · Apr 20, 2011

stiefel said:
...Wait, what? Does this mean Simonchelli is now a member of the safety commission?

The Safety Commission is open to any rider who wants to go along. Which is as it should be.

stiefel · Apr 20, 2011

Kropotkin said:
The Safety Commission is open to any rider who wants to go along. Which is as it should be.

It is? I didn't know that, I though they had fixed members. On the motogp website it even lists Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa and Capirossi as last years members, although it is worded in such a way that I guess it could also mean something like 'these riders, among others...' (but then why list the names in the first place, right?)

Ah well, good to know.

The thought of Rossi and Simonchelli in the safety commission elicited images of motogp races like blues brothers/smokey and the bandit/canonball run car chases.

stiefel · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Uncini said that they talked about it in the Commission as a corollary to the weight of the inboard cameras, but it wasn't serious. So maybe Stoner did not get the humor (which would not be surprising, even assuming Stoner and Rossi really understand what the other says). And Uncini denies the issue is on the table, which should be enough to dismiss this speculation until further notice.

Well, sure, the issue is not on the table, and although given kropo's post I am sure we can agree that the issue was on the table at some point, I think we can also agree to disagree how much importance should be attached to that for now.

However, Uncini's comments are not clear enough for me to be shushed just yet, especially because Uncini is indirectly one of the people that is under fire here.

povol · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
The maps adjust automatically during the race according to the computer estimate of the fuel needed to reach the finish line, and it is a fact that Sic has trouble being as fast in the second half of the race. The aggressive riding style can be a factor, but there are others who ride as aggressively. The fact that he weighs 77 kilos is certainly more important. Needless, to say, changing the rules because some riders are heavier or lighter than others is a silly idea, especially in a category where bikes have 240 bhp. My advice to him is to go on a diet and cut some hair!

...and one more liter of fuel for all, would equalize the situation in the easiest way.

According to most sources, Simoncelli is rough on tires. The strange part is Dani, who supposedly doesnt have fuel problems, seems to be the one rider who has suffered with the fuel computer more than any.We never get a straight answer, is it the computer, or is it Dani doesnt have the endurance to go 100% for whole race. The announcers tried to put that theory to rest, yapping about how fit he was, but i tend to take what they say with a grain of salt.

Keshav · Apr 20, 2011

stiefel said:
...Wait, what? Does this mean Simonchelli is now a member of the safety commission?

Thanks for the insights Kropo!

What next? Stoner doing ads for the dairy association?

J4rn0 · Apr 20, 2011

stiefel said:
Well, sure, the issue is not on the table, and although given kropo's post I am sure we can agree that the issue was on the table at some point, I think we can also agree to disagree how much importance should be attached to that for now.

However, Uncini's comments are not clear enough for me to be shushed just yet, especially because Uncini is indirectly one of the people that is under fire here.

Under fire? and why?

stiefel · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Under fire? and why?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Apr/110403rydernotes2.htm

third paragraph

J4rn0 · Apr 20, 2011

stiefel said:
http://www.superbike...rydernotes2.htm

third paragraph

We have seen Casey's comments already. Being 'under fire' generally means being under attack in a serious or general way. The dissatisfaction of a top rider means something of course, but it's also part of the routine. Unless several others join Casey and voice the same dissatisfaction, I think Uncini need not worry too much.

stiefel · Apr 20, 2011

J4rn0 said:
We have seen Casey's comments already. Being 'under fire' generally means being under attack in a serious or general way. The dissatisfaction of a top rider means something of course, but it's also part of the routine. Unless several others join Casey and voice the same dissatisfaction, I think Uncini need not worry too much.

Mhmm, don't take this too hard, but I think you're being a bit overly pedantic. Stoner's criticism indirectly reflects on several people, one of which is Uncini, wouldn't you agree? Then I think it's quite fair to say that Uncini is one of the people who are indirectly under fire. You may draw a line about the appropriateness of using the phrase 'under fire' somewhere other than me, but that's really just arbitrary.

Moreover, several others have joined Casey in voicing doubts about the integrity of the these commissions, one of them being me. Or is it only riders that count?

And no, of course Uncini need not worry, his position is as save as ever. This, however, does not negate my right to be especially suspicious of his comments given the context.

Jumkie · Apr 20, 2011

Kropotkin said:
One of the Italian journalists (caveat emptor) spoke to Simoncelli, and Simoncelli told him it had come up. That journalist (sadly, I wasn't paying close enough attention during the Italian-language debriefs to notice) then started asking everyone about it, and so they got quotes from all the riders. As I understand it (but this is mainly journo gossip) it was Rossi and Simoncelli who brought it up in the Safety Commission.

Thanks for clarification.

He is, it's just that his statements on the issue were so bland that nobody bothered posting them. I have audio of him which I haven't transcribed, but it was mainly "yes lighter riders have an advantage in some points, no, I'm not sure what we can do about it." Stoner was much more quotable on the issue ("This why I don't go to the Safety Commission any more. They only listen to certain people, and they don't talk about safety. What's the weight issue got to do with safety?") hence his quotes appeared in all the publications.

The power of [sub]subtly[/sub]. Toby Moody alludes to this in his article in saying why bring up the issue in a body decidedly not suited for such a discussion; and delicately referred to below by you:

I should also add that journalists tend to goad Stoner into making comments, because he provides such fantastic quotes. If you can get him when he's annoyed about something, and send him off on a subject (whether related or not) you've got your headline quotes for the weekend. It's fast and easy journalism. Rossi understands the way the press works much better, and is much more selective in providing a juicy quote, choosing his time and place more carefully.

Kropo, I’m sure you know all to well, that honest journalists have an exceedingly complex endeavor. Mere humans, whose target audience are passionate 'fanatical' followers of the sport who hang on every snap shot into the window they provide us spectators. The opportunity to skew that picture is multifaceted on several fronts, not the least of which is with the end-user's own bias; but starting with the journalist's proactive integrity. Even still, the most careful and discerning of these is susceptible to unintended messages they create, conversely, as even they, the journalist, become a vehicle for savvy message dissemination by the principals, often times from the riders themselves. Not to mention, the intricacy for candid journalist to subsist while negotiating the precarious balancing act of not affronting the zealous and fervent consumers of that information. Thank you for your work.

Kropotkin · Apr 20, 2011

Jumkie said:
Kropo, I’m sure you know all to well, that honest journalists have an exceedingly complex endeavor.

Really looking forward to meeting one. Hopefully.

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lil red rocket pilot

stiefel

J4rn0

Kropotkin

stiefel

J4rn0

bigbang

J4rn0

J4rn0

Kropotkin

stiefel

stiefel

povol

Keshav

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