I'm curious what you guys think. I'll post my thoughts after page one is full.
Was Rossi or Bautista at fault or "Racing Incident?"
- Thread starter elitemafia
- Start date
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
Racing incident in which Alvaro Bautista was involved.
Mid pack in the first few corners, the room/line he wanted just isn't there ....imo
This might help things to a conclusion here.
Mid pack in the first few corners, the room/line he wanted just isn't there ....imo
This might help things to a conclusion here.
My instincts say to banish Bautista to Elba, where he will be forced to turn boulders into pea gravel with a small hammer, until the pile of aggregate is worth enough to reimburse the 80,000 Italians who purchased Mugello tickets. A Scottish shepherd will be employed to shear Alvaro's bleached-blond boy-band bouffant on a biweekly basis.
The video evidence does little to assuage my instinctual snap judgment. However, the extenuating circumstances, particularly how far the riders position themselves off the bike's side, make it conceivable that Alvaro had no idea Rossi was beside him, until it was too late. If that were the case, Bautista would certainly have perceived Rossi as the aggressor, since Rossi had only barely stood up the bike prior to impact. Unfortunately, this was probably just a racing incident, and Bautista will continue to walk amongst us as a free man.
The video evidence does little to assuage my instinctual snap judgment. However, the extenuating circumstances, particularly how far the riders position themselves off the bike's side, make it conceivable that Alvaro had no idea Rossi was beside him, until it was too late. If that were the case, Bautista would certainly have perceived Rossi as the aggressor, since Rossi had only barely stood up the bike prior to impact. Unfortunately, this was probably just a racing incident, and Bautista will continue to walk amongst us as a free man.
Racing incident. Still voted Albaro, cause hey, .... that guy. He's just always in the middle of these things, and taking up a good ride.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
mylexicon
After over a hundred views, I was really hoping this thread would die the death it deserved...by nobody noticing. I mean, we already determined it was Charlie St. Clown's fault in the post race chatter. But this here, was worth keeping this redundant thread alive.
Now go ....-off thread.
After over a hundred views, I was really hoping this thread would die the death it deserved...by nobody noticing. I mean, we already determined it was Charlie St. Clown's fault in the post race chatter. But this here, was worth keeping this redundant thread alive.
Now go ....-off thread.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Jumkie
Kind of reminds me of P. Diddy's music. The original version was good, his rip offs not so much.
Kind of reminds me of P. Diddy's music. The original version was good, his rip offs not so much.
I shouldn't post polls when I'm drunk.... If anything it's more Valentinos fault for trying to pass around the ....... outside of a left turn right turn combo.
Coming soon to MotoGP: Blind spot sensors, tow hooks, mirrors, and turn signals!
Coming soon to MotoGP: Blind spot sensors, tow hooks, mirrors, and turn signals!
elitemafia
Where are you suggesting Valentino should have passed him? Off the track on the inside of the turn? Come to think of it he does have form for that, but it involved someone a little better than Alvaro who managed not to run into him.
No one is suggesting Alvaro deliberately took them both out, but his record indicates he has some difficulty with causality/seeing connections between actions and their consequences. It is obviously a problem for the down the field riders as well as the front-runner when a front-runner is down the field early in a race, because Alvaro was going to lose several places as a result of being passed by Rossi if he had taken measures to avoid collision (if he did have time to do so); this is unfortunate for him, but doesn't mean Rossi isn't allowed to pass him, a pass which seemed entirely legitimate to me.
Where are you suggesting Valentino should have passed him? Off the track on the inside of the turn? Come to think of it he does have form for that, but it involved someone a little better than Alvaro who managed not to run into him.
No one is suggesting Alvaro deliberately took them both out, but his record indicates he has some difficulty with causality/seeing connections between actions and their consequences. It is obviously a problem for the down the field riders as well as the front-runner when a front-runner is down the field early in a race, because Alvaro was going to lose several places as a result of being passed by Rossi if he had taken measures to avoid collision (if he did have time to do so); this is unfortunate for him, but doesn't mean Rossi isn't allowed to pass him, a pass which seemed entirely legitimate to me.
Joined Feb 2008
2K Posts | 0+
home
michaelm
The incident itself: meh, couldn't say one was defenitely more guilty than the other. It would be nice to have some video of the whole thing, rather than just the last few seconds.
But I do have the feeling that Rossi was even more anxious at this race to overtake as many others as possible in as little time as possible. Qualifying in seventh means you have to take some added risk if you want to be with the frontrunners by the end of the first lap. Maybe not the smartest thing to do. Even though it is much more important to run with the hounds early on if you want to win these days, I've seen guys like Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Stoner win races despite gingerly staying out of trouble for the first 1-2 laps when they wound up mid-field at the start. Rossi could have done the same, but chose to take the extra risk instead. And he paid the price for it.
The incident itself: meh, couldn't say one was defenitely more guilty than the other. It would be nice to have some video of the whole thing, rather than just the last few seconds.
But I do have the feeling that Rossi was even more anxious at this race to overtake as many others as possible in as little time as possible. Qualifying in seventh means you have to take some added risk if you want to be with the frontrunners by the end of the first lap. Maybe not the smartest thing to do. Even though it is much more important to run with the hounds early on if you want to win these days, I've seen guys like Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Stoner win races despite gingerly staying out of trouble for the first 1-2 laps when they wound up mid-field at the start. Rossi could have done the same, but chose to take the extra risk instead. And he paid the price for it.
stiefel
I don't think this is specific to Rossi, but rather the new paradigm. As you may recall Pedrosa had a somewhat similar incident with same rider when starting from the back after the tyre warmer disaster last year, and I don't recall Lorenzo coming through the field from well back, in a dry race anyway. Stoner may have done it, but if so infrequently. The guys who have done it this year are actually Rossi and Marquez, and Marquez carved through the moto2 field on several occasions in previous years, albeit without much in the way of early lap restraint.
I don't think this is specific to Rossi, but rather the new paradigm. As you may recall Pedrosa had a somewhat similar incident with same rider when starting from the back after the tyre warmer disaster last year, and I don't recall Lorenzo coming through the field from well back, in a dry race anyway. Stoner may have done it, but if so infrequently. The guys who have done it this year are actually Rossi and Marquez, and Marquez carved through the moto2 field on several occasions in previous years, albeit without much in the way of early lap restraint.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
stiefel
I'm not sure he did much wrong - Christ, if you are intending to go with Lorenzo, Pedrosa or Marquez you can't let them pull so much a second on you in the opening lap(s) (unless your name's Cal
) - and certainly don't want to be held back or embroiled in mid pack shenanigans. By his own admission he hasn't mastered the new qualifying regs and when you are deep on the grid these sort of eventualities are more likely. (Tell that to Lorenzo last year at Assen). This was the same situation as Qatar when Vale rode a high risk first lap strategy where the cool tyre and track temperature was more of a factor and it paid off...I'm certain that the same would have happened on Sunday. The punishment didn't fit the crime - but I think to say he should have been more cautious given the task in hand is a tad harsh. Certainly the criticism of Sic for his early lap zeal was justified, but I don't agree that Vale should have taken a more sedate appraoch to his race craft. His poor qualifying cost him a possible podium.
I'm not sure he did much wrong - Christ, if you are intending to go with Lorenzo, Pedrosa or Marquez you can't let them pull so much a second on you in the opening lap(s) (unless your name's Cal
) - and certainly don't want to be held back or embroiled in mid pack shenanigans. By his own admission he hasn't mastered the new qualifying regs and when you are deep on the grid these sort of eventualities are more likely. (Tell that to Lorenzo last year at Assen). This was the same situation as Qatar when Vale rode a high risk first lap strategy where the cool tyre and track temperature was more of a factor and it paid off...I'm certain that the same would have happened on Sunday. The punishment didn't fit the crime - but I think to say he should have been more cautious given the task in hand is a tad harsh. Certainly the criticism of Sic for his early lap zeal was justified, but I don't agree that Vale should have taken a more sedate appraoch to his race craft. His poor qualifying cost him a possible podium.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Arrabbiata1
I would prefer you rephrase that last sentence correctly. His poor qualifying gave Cal a podium
3531581370515738
I'm not sure he did much wrong - Christ, if you are intending to go with Lorenzo, Pedrosa or Marquez you can't let them pull so much a second on you in the opening lap(s) (unless your name's Cal
I would prefer you rephrase that last sentence correctly. His poor qualifying gave Cal a podium
Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
it was 100% bautista's fault... they came around a corner, rossi was infront.... baustista seemed to get better drive out of the corner but went into the side of rossi's bike.
rossi was def infront and if bautista didnt see him god knows what he was looking at, maybe the crowd?
rossi was def infront and if bautista didnt see him god knows what he was looking at, maybe the crowd?
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Arrabbiata1
Serious question, Arrabb:
What is there to master in the new qualifying format - aside from the likelihood of more riders on the track at the same time providing more opportunities to be baulked?
The top qualifiers (discounting freak occurances like CS setting a time at the opening that the rest would spend the rest of the session attempting to match) always seem to hold it all back for the last few minutes.
3531581370515738
I'm not sure he did much wrong - Christ, if you are intending to go with Lorenzo, Pedrosa or Marquez you can't let them pull so much a second on you in the opening lap(s) (unless your name's Cal
Serious question, Arrabb:
What is there to master in the new qualifying format - aside from the likelihood of more riders on the track at the same time providing more opportunities to be baulked?
The top qualifiers (discounting freak occurances like CS setting a time at the opening that the rest would spend the rest of the session attempting to match) always seem to hold it all back for the last few minutes.
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