US GP riders past to present

The US has a dirth of talent for many reasons, but the lack of interest in sport bike racing is the most bewildering reason of them all. The AMA has taken a nosedive for reasons no one can really understand. Some people said the Mat and Ben show was too boring. Some say the rules sucked (the failed TC ban), and the AMA was incompetent. Personally, I think it was the way the manufacturers used the AMA. They poured exorbitant resources into building an incredible US series, and they paid established riders a good deal of money to look pretty in ads even if the bike was nowhere near competitive. When American riders were paid to stay at home rather than make the jump to WSBK (with US factory support), the competitive allure of SBK was lost a bit on the fans, imo. Besides an awkward soiree on a Honda by Ben Bostrom, there were no Americans in WSBK on a fulltime basis between 2002-2009 Sounds crass, but the lack of hegemony may have bored the fans away.



The US still produces top talent, but it is wasting away in a GP formula that doesn't accentuate the virtues of being built like a Superbiker or riding like a Superbiker. If Hayden, Hopper, Spies, and Edwards had all gone to WSBK (or stayed there) we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd be talking about the fearsome America vs. Australia battles in WSBK as the great Americans did battle with Bayliss, Corser, and Vermeulen (maybe Mladin would have come along for the fun). It would be the best AMA promotional tool ever b/c all of those guys rode in the AMA except CV. AMA has been friendly to Aussies for quite some time so it would have strengthened the talent pool from both the US and Oz. I also think that a WSBK shark-tank of the caliber I have described, would certainly have sharpened American and Australian riders into a MotoGP force. Throw the current Brits in the mix, and you really have a deep talent pool.



The sad thing about American motorcycling is that everyone answers to the 4 Japanese factories. If they say you're staying in the AMA, you're staying in the AMA. If they say you're not getting paid to race in the AMA anymore, you're not getting paid to race in the AMA. I'm not sure the American distributors had a good plan for motorcycling after WSBK was changed to 1000cc. For the kind of money the American distributors were spending in the AMA to sponsor tracks and buy TV time, they could have bought WSBK from the Flamminis.

If there was an American manufacturer with an American rider, either in SBK or GP, I bet the interest of the public would increase exponentially. But Harley Davidson, to name the major US manufacturer, entered GP only briefly through their Italian acquisition Aermacchi in the '70s. After that, nothing.

One thing that has always puzzled me is the lack of promotion at the dealership level in the USA. I've traveled

a lot and very often when I've been passing through a city or town and I see a dealership - I will stop in just

for the hell of it (and because I love being around motorcycles). And when talking to the sales help or the

mechanics - there's virtually no knowledge amongst them about what is going on in the world of motorcycle

racing. The sales people are almost always bored middle-aged geezers who would rather be selling real estate.

The mechanics half the time are undocumented aliens who wouldn't know Kenny Roberts if he walked in the door.

And the guy at the parts counter are usually thirty-something year-olds who couldn't get a job doing anything

else and have lost interest in bikes years ago. And if they know anything about motorcycle "personalities" - it

is usually some pin-head who does stunting in the local parking lot.



I know these generalizations are not true for all dealerships - but it is true for way too many of them.

Keshav said:

One thing that has always puzzled me is the lack of promotion at the dealership level in the USA. I've traveled

a lot and very often when I've been passing through a city or town and I see a dealership - I will stop in just

for the hell of it (and because I love being around motorcycles). And when talking to the sales help or the

mechanics - there's virtually no knowledge amongst them about what is going on in the world of motorcycle

racing. The sales people are almost always bored middle-aged geezers who would rather be selling real estate.

The mechanics half the time are undocumented aliens who wouldn't know Kenny Roberts if he walked in the door.

And the guy at the parts counter are usually thirty-something year-olds who couldn't get a job doing anything

else and have lost interest in bikes years ago. And if they know anything about motorcycle "personalities" - it

is usually some pin-head who does stunting in the local parking lot.



I know these generalizations are not true for all dealerships - but it is true for way too many of them.

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Yup, you got it

then add a few other common observations

Bike (unless named) is synonomous with "Harley"

Limited attention spans - Bike racing - whatever style or class is about action packed into max 60 minutes vs other Sports - NASCAR, Football +++ all taking 3 - 4 hours and more with copious replays/ lots of time to grab beer and take a pee

AMA SBK is exciting - almost more so without Spies and Mladin with their dominant Suzi's, but doesn't draw the crowds

East Coast - is really barren vis a vis events - good to see Texas getting MotoGP, but why not New Jersey

Pity about Buell, but in reality they only competed in a self devised Class against 600's

Oh yeah and the Pin-Head stunting on the parking lot probably has a super wide chromed rear wheel



I guess it may help if we could get some kind of recognized international structure and competition in the sport - more bikes on the grid and some kind of succession path from National to World Series. The sport needs more nationalities on the track - US, GB, Oz, Italians, - the Spanish can stay since they're also good - some more French - other are welcome too - AND more non-Japanese bikes - Ducati is a kind of Lone Ranger occasionally supported by Aprilia and lately BMW - where's Triumph and where's the US with a bike - how about an MV or a real Buell



I see you're in NYC - is there any oval racing around the Tri-State - it's something I'd like to go and see - broaden my horizons

Too many ....... issues to list. In a nut shell, Americans still have buying power for the 'luxury' market of motorcycles, but don't give one flying .... about motorcycle racing. Also, its not like the old days, racing seats on the world stage are sponsorship driven. And we lack a motorsports channel. In a time where we have 200+ channel programing, to not have at least one channel dedicated to motorsport is a failure. (We do have a Nascar channel though, but that one is complete ....).

Jumkie said:

Too many ....... issues to list. In a nut shell, Americans still have buying power for the 'luxury' market of motorcycles

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I really think that's a big part of the problem. Back in the days of 750cc homologation specials, Superbikes were truly super. An RC45 was a V-configuration engine with titanium reciprocating internals, gear driven cams, and two-banks of fuel injectors. It was basically a race bike with soft suspension and low compression for road use. Very special even to this day. Yamaha also made some really special stuff. If you had one of the R7s specials from the late-90s, you were treated to 6-valves per cylinder.



Homologation specials no longer exist, and SBK doesn't really have a unique identity anymore. Why do you want to go to the track? You can see a dozen examples of a CBR1000RR at your local dealership. If they give Superbike a unique identity, and they make them a treasured commodity (like a D16RR), good things will happen for Superbike series and riders, imo. A lot more kids hang Ferrari 458 posters than Ferrari F1 pictures. The allure of owning something really special is more powerful than the allure of gazing at it.



If Superbikes are super, the people who own them and the people who race them are super as well. A 16 year old with a job can go to any dealership in the US, and buy one of the dozen superbikes they keep on the showroom floor. Superbikes are about as cool as mullet rockets these days. The main attraction is watching some half-drunk moonshiner wrap it around a telephone pole.

FTE217 said:

I don't get why though after so many great riders a individual hasn't packed his bags on his own merit/dreams and done the hard yards over in Eu much like some had done in the past, aussies sure have had to do it that way the last being Stoner.

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B/c rumor has it that riders like Mat and Ben were being paid upwards of $2M to ride in the AMA. The AMA also had factory support, and lots of fans. It is only in the last half decade that riders have decided to look outside the US, but they don't really have the connections. JD Beach won the Red Bull Rookies cup, and AFAIK, he can't even get a full time ride in our own domestic series. Jake Gagne won the Red Bull Rookies Cup in 2010, I don't think he has a ride this season.

So the big 4 want to keep US riders in the US to keep sales strong but exceptions have ended up with rides in motogp as an additional marketing stratergy so to speak ?????...........

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It is important to make a distinction between the Japanese and the Big 4 US distributors. We refer to them as the manufacturers or the Japanese, but we are actually talking about the powerful American distribution companies who are responsible for North American operations. You can kind of lump Ducati in with them b/c they are based in California with the Big 4 distributors.



The distributors decided to keep American riders in the American series---sort of---it's complicated. American Honda boosted Nicky Hayden into MotoGP b/c they felt Hayden's media darling status would help them sell bikes. Turns out HRC had been eying him anyway b/c they needed top 4-stroke talent. If you weren't looking at Bayliss or Edwards, Hayden was next on the top 4-stroke riders list. Hopkins was never controlled by a manufacturer so John Ulrich got Peter Clifford to hire Hopper. Edwards left the AMA a long time before the American distributors took over US racing activities (circa 2001-2003, imo). Spies only landed in WSBK on accident after Rizla Suzuki decided not to sign him.



It was Suzuki who started the trend of keeping American riders in the US. Suzuki have an abnormally high marketshare in the US so they take AMA activities very seriously, and they are hesitant to export their talent. They paid riders big bucks to stay at home, and their strategy seemed to create sales. Other manufacturers copied by hiring established riders and putting them on uncompetitive equipment. The rest is history. Our series became a retirement plan. Only two bikes in the paddock had the potential to develop the next great American champion. One of them was ridden by Mat Mladin. Luckily, the second bike was ridden by a very talented kid named Ben Spies. Yosh also ran a third bike, but the talent necessary to make it work was already being paid big bucks at the other manufacturers, imo.

Keshav said:

One thing that has always puzzled me is the lack of promotion at the dealership level in the USA. I've traveled

a lot and very often when I've been passing through a city or town and I see a dealership - I will stop in just

for the hell of it (and because I love being around motorcycles). And when talking to the sales help or the

mechanics - there's virtually no knowledge amongst them about what is going on in the world of motorcycle

racing. The sales people are almost always bored middle-aged geezers who would rather be selling real estate.

The mechanics half the time are undocumented aliens who wouldn't know Kenny Roberts if he walked in the door.

And the guy at the parts counter are usually thirty-something year-olds who couldn't get a job doing anything

else and have lost interest in bikes years ago. And if they know anything about motorcycle "personalities" - it

is usually some pin-head who does stunting in the local parking lot.



I know these generalizations are not true for all dealerships - but it is true for way too many of them.

Click to expand...

I've seen the same exact thing around here, dealerships don't even have any posters of racing up on the walls. When I was younger I wanted to try and ride on a track but it was two hours away and my mom wasn't about to spend the money to get me another bike and my poor Bultaco dirtbike was all I had, a hand me down from the 70's. The guy we got it from actually talked her out of even taking me to the track because of the money involved. One day when I'm not as attached to my RC51 I'll get her heavy ...(the bike) out there.

mylexicon said:

B/c rumor has it that riders like Mat and Ben were being paid upwards of $2M to ride in the AMA. The AMA also had factory support, and lots of fans. It is only in the last half decade that riders have decided to look outside the US, but they don't really have the connections. JD Beach won the Red Bull Rookies cup, and AFAIK, he can't even get a full time ride in our own domestic series. Jake Gagne won the Red Bull Rookies Cup in 2010, I don't think he has a ride this season.







It is important to make a distinction between the Japanese and the Big 4 US distributors. We refer to them as the manufacturers or the Japanese, but we are actually talking about the powerful American distribution companies who are responsible for North American operations. You can kind of lump Ducati in with them b/c they are based in California with the Big 4 distributors.



The distributors decided to keep American riders in the American series---sort of---it's complicated. American Honda boosted Nicky Hayden into MotoGP b/c they felt Hayden's media darling status would help them sell bikes. Turns out HRC had been eying him anyway b/c they needed top 4-stroke talent. If you weren't looking at Bayliss or Edwards, Hayden was next on the top 4-stroke riders list. Hopkins was never controlled by a manufacturer so John Ulrich got Peter Clifford to hire Hopper. Edwards left the AMA a long time before the American distributors took over US racing activities (circa 2001-2003, imo). Spies only landed in WSBK on accident after Rizla Suzuki decided not to sign him.



It was Suzuki who started the trend of keeping American riders in the US. Suzuki have an abnormally high marketshare in the US so they take AMA activities very seriously, and they are hesitant to export their talent. They paid riders big bucks to stay at home, and their strategy seemed to create sales. Other manufacturers copied by hiring established riders and putting them on uncompetitive equipment. The rest is history. Our series became a retirement plan. Only two bikes in the paddock had the potential to develop the next great American champion. One of them was ridden by Mat Mladin. Luckily, the second bike was ridden by a very talented kid named Ben Spies. Yosh also ran a third bike, but the talent necessary to make it work was already being paid big bucks at the other manufacturers, imo.

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Suzuki-gixxer, I seriously think most kids buy these so they can say they have a gixxer lmao it's trendy around here and recognised, the word gixxer by non riders even. The same thing happened with the hyabusa. Everybody wants the latest trend.

I think it's fairly simple, when the sport was a bit more grass roots then the best riders for a given series would come from the place who's motorcycling culture created the best riders. America had its dirt track racing and superbike racing before it got internationally popular. Those ways of riding developed riders ideal for the big GP bikes at a time when engine power was well ahead of tyre and chassis technology. These days riders are almost excusively manufactured from an early age through an established system of rider development. The countries with the best riders in the world are the countries with the best structure for young rider development, and that isn't a coincedence. It was America once, but now it is clearly Spain