I want the tyre rule to change badly. I hate saying this, but it's making MotoGP simply boring to watch
We know that Stoner's more or less going to win and that's the depressing part. I want there to be like a three way battle for the title so there is excitement not knowing who will win.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Louise @ Aug 28 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]87227[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I want the tyre rule to change badly. I hate saying this, but it's making MotoGP simply boring to watch
We know that Stoner's more or less going to win and that's the depressing part. I want there to be like a three way battle for the title so there is excitement not knowing who will win.
Were you "depressed" 2001-2005?
I want the tyre rule to change badly. I hate saying this, but it's making MotoGP simply boring to watch
Were you "depressed" 2001-2005?
[quote name='povol' date='Aug 28 2007, 04:40 PM' post='87201']
If thats the case and the data means nothing,it would be a knee jerk reaction to change.It just means Bridgestone guessed right and Michelin guessed wrong.That is no reason to change rules.Give it a couple of years and see how it works out.By that time the main reason we are having this discussion will have retired and no one will give a .....
thats a very good point, mabe they should leave it as is for a couple of seasons as im not generally for knee jerk decisions, but i do feel that unlimited amount of tyres would be the way or should have been the way in a first season.
all tyre's that are to be used should be there buy Thursday, no over nighters rule should stay.
sounds like you still had a great time but i bet your aching now you old bugger haha (smiles not working )
If thats the case and the data means nothing,it would be a knee jerk reaction to change.It just means Bridgestone guessed right and Michelin guessed wrong.That is no reason to change rules.Give it a couple of years and see how it works out.By that time the main reason we are having this discussion will have retired and no one will give a .....
thats a very good point, mabe they should leave it as is for a couple of seasons as im not generally for knee jerk decisions, but i do feel that unlimited amount of tyres would be the way or should have been the way in a first season.
all tyre's that are to be used should be there buy Thursday, no over nighters rule should stay.
sounds like you still had a great time but i bet your aching now you old bugger haha (smiles not working )
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 28 2007, 06:28 PM) [snapback]87230[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Were you "depressed" 2001-2005?
I actually don't remember much MotoGP in those years, except maybe some in 2005. I was about 8 in 2001.
Were you "depressed" 2001-2005?
I actually don't remember much MotoGP in those years, except maybe some in 2005. I was about 8 in 2001.
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I did see a new Concours at VIR that sure looked comfy and it does have plenty of giddyup with the detuned ZX14 [or as you all know it zz14]engine.Ity wasnt to bad though,i got over it in time to turn around and do it again this weekend.As long as im doing twisties im fine.Its those highway miles that lock me up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Aug 28 2007, 08:19 PM) [snapback]87267[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I did see a new Concours at VIR that sure looked comfy and it does have plenty of giddyup with the detuned ZX14 [or as you all know it zz14]engine.Ity wasnt to bad though,i got over it in time to turn around and do it again this weekend.As long as im doing twisties im fine.Its those highway miles that lock me up.
haha, you will be on a goldwing soon then.
I did see a new Concours at VIR that sure looked comfy and it does have plenty of giddyup with the detuned ZX14 [or as you all know it zz14]engine.Ity wasnt to bad though,i got over it in time to turn around and do it again this weekend.As long as im doing twisties im fine.Its those highway miles that lock me up.
haha, you will be on a goldwing soon then.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Keshav @ Aug 27 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]87037[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
One thing a lot of folks seemed to have missed, is that it wasn't Dorna who instituted the tire rule. It was the manufacturers themselves! They did it to keep their costs down. And Rossi was one of the most vocal supporters of the rule. I agree with everyone that the racing has been a little boring. But hey, give Michelin the winter period to lick their wounds and do some serious R+D and next season they'll come back. Getting their heads handed to them all season long will wake them up and force them to come back to the table with competitive stuff.
Cheers,
KD
Michelin/Bridgestone do not write rules in the rule book and they didn't get together for a "voluntary" meeting. Dorna threatened them both with a control tire (probably a Dunlop), b/c the teams complained about the enormous cost of tire development or the manufacturers complained separately to Dorna or Dorna nearly fell over when they saw the estimated tire costs of the 2006 season.
You can't have a cartel form on it's own unless the products being offered are nearly perfect substitutes. Michelin and Bridgestone have not offered similar performance in the recent past.
All the Michelin riders and teams loved the new rule because it was saving them boatloads of money without significantly hurting their chances (so they thought). Now that the tire rule has hurt their chances, they are crying foul.
The part about Michelin not having overnighting privleges was another rule change accepted through clenched teeth under threat of control tire. The companies have to make special tires for each round, whether they make them on Monday or Saturday is negligible to the overall cost. Plus, Michelin saved themselves a lot of money by agreeing to limited tire selections. They would be eager to exploit the competitive advantage they have with overnight shipments because now the payoff is higher.
I suppose it's possible they both showed up, slapped each other on the back and signed onto a cartel agreement secured by rules change. But that is about as likely as all the bike manufacturers making a cartel.
One thing a lot of folks seemed to have missed, is that it wasn't Dorna who instituted the tire rule. It was the manufacturers themselves! They did it to keep their costs down. And Rossi was one of the most vocal supporters of the rule. I agree with everyone that the racing has been a little boring. But hey, give Michelin the winter period to lick their wounds and do some serious R+D and next season they'll come back. Getting their heads handed to them all season long will wake them up and force them to come back to the table with competitive stuff.
Cheers,
KD
Michelin/Bridgestone do not write rules in the rule book and they didn't get together for a "voluntary" meeting. Dorna threatened them both with a control tire (probably a Dunlop), b/c the teams complained about the enormous cost of tire development or the manufacturers complained separately to Dorna or Dorna nearly fell over when they saw the estimated tire costs of the 2006 season.
You can't have a cartel form on it's own unless the products being offered are nearly perfect substitutes. Michelin and Bridgestone have not offered similar performance in the recent past.
All the Michelin riders and teams loved the new rule because it was saving them boatloads of money without significantly hurting their chances (so they thought). Now that the tire rule has hurt their chances, they are crying foul.
The part about Michelin not having overnighting privleges was another rule change accepted through clenched teeth under threat of control tire. The companies have to make special tires for each round, whether they make them on Monday or Saturday is negligible to the overall cost. Plus, Michelin saved themselves a lot of money by agreeing to limited tire selections. They would be eager to exploit the competitive advantage they have with overnight shipments because now the payoff is higher.
I suppose it's possible they both showed up, slapped each other on the back and signed onto a cartel agreement secured by rules change. But that is about as likely as all the bike manufacturers making a cartel.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 28 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]87269[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
haha, you will be on a goldwing soon then.
I dont even consider that a bike.Its a 2 wheeled car.Cd player,air bags,heaters,etc just aint my cup of tea.Cant beat them for hitting the open road but thats not how we role.A Sport Tourer is as far as i will go when the Sport Bike becomes to much to take.Like i said,Concours,FJ 1300
K1200s BMW,or i might just put some Heli bars on my 12 and and ride it another 52000 miles.
haha, you will be on a goldwing soon then.
I dont even consider that a bike.Its a 2 wheeled car.Cd player,air bags,heaters,etc just aint my cup of tea.Cant beat them for hitting the open road but thats not how we role.A Sport Tourer is as far as i will go when the Sport Bike becomes to much to take.Like i said,Concours,FJ 1300
K1200s BMW,or i might just put some Heli bars on my 12 and and ride it another 52000 miles.
Part II
"In 2005 the average gap from winner to second-place finisher after the first 12 races was 2.060 seconds. This grew slightly to 2.578 in 2006, but then mushroomed to 6.14 over the first dozen races of 2007. But, again, much of this is due to the Stoner’s riding and the performance of the Desmosedici."
"In 2005 the average gap from winner to second-place finisher after the first 12 races was 2.060 seconds. This grew slightly to 2.578 in 2006, but then mushroomed to 6.14 over the first dozen races of 2007. But, again, much of this is due to the Stoner’s riding and the performance of the Desmosedici."
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Louise @ Aug 28 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]87256[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I actually don't remember much MotoGP in those years, except maybe some in 2005. I was about 8 in 2001.
Oh, well do you think you would have been "depressed" seeing Rossi win like Stoner is doing now?
I actually don't remember much MotoGP in those years, except maybe some in 2005. I was about 8 in 2001.
Oh, well do you think you would have been "depressed" seeing Rossi win like Stoner is doing now?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 30 2007, 04:03 AM) [snapback]87563[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Oh, well do you think you would have been "depressed" seeing Rossi win like Stoner is doing now?
yup. This season is a ....... snooze fest. If you don't agree, there's something wrong with you.
Oh, well do you think you would have been "depressed" seeing Rossi win like Stoner is doing now?
yup. This season is a ....... snooze fest. If you don't agree, there's something wrong with you.
I could not agree with Povol's (pst #15) more.
Let me remind you all that EVERYONE agreed to these new rule (yes, even Rossi). Now, that Bridgestones are perfoming alarmingly well, it seems unfair? Whata croick of $hit.
In hindsight, may be they should have changed the tire rules the same year as they switched to 800s. Limiting the tires a manufacturer can bring forces the manufacturer to develop tires that perform over a wider range of variables. Bridgestone was already doing that because they did not have the luxury of "saturday night specials" . (SNS)In any case, only the top riders benefitted from Michelin's SNS. So it was unfairt to the rest of the Michelin riders too.
If the rules were to changes, I would propose that if the tires companies want, they should be allowed to bring in as many tires that want. this would increase their costs. But, that's the price thay have to pay for success. However, once qualifying begins, there should be no Saturday Night Specials.
In any case,Michelin has warned that they will pull out if the factory teams do not sign with them. So, that may just as well solve all these tire problems.
Let me remind you all that EVERYONE agreed to these new rule (yes, even Rossi). Now, that Bridgestones are perfoming alarmingly well, it seems unfair? Whata croick of $hit.
In hindsight, may be they should have changed the tire rules the same year as they switched to 800s. Limiting the tires a manufacturer can bring forces the manufacturer to develop tires that perform over a wider range of variables. Bridgestone was already doing that because they did not have the luxury of "saturday night specials" . (SNS)In any case, only the top riders benefitted from Michelin's SNS. So it was unfairt to the rest of the Michelin riders too.
If the rules were to changes, I would propose that if the tires companies want, they should be allowed to bring in as many tires that want. this would increase their costs. But, that's the price thay have to pay for success. However, once qualifying begins, there should be no Saturday Night Specials.
In any case,Michelin has warned that they will pull out if the factory teams do not sign with them. So, that may just as well solve all these tire problems.
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